Kerbodyne Challenge Series: Minmus Tourism

Wanderfound · April 3, 2015

Okay, another build/fly challenge, inspired by ye olde Laythe Capitalism thread.

The challenge: fly some Kerbals to Minmus, then back to KSC. Lowest cost per Kerbal wins.

All stock parts, no obvious hacks or cheats, if in doubt about a mod, ask. Rockets, spaceplanes, staged or SSTO; your choice. Stock aero and FAR/NEAR both okay.

The demo run:

Twenty Kerbals onboard and the fuel bill was:

LF: 3264 at Ã¢Ë†Å¡0.8/unit equals Ã¢Ë†Å¡2611.2

O: 3370 at Ã¢Ë†Å¡0.18/unit equals Ã¢Ë†Å¡606.6

MP: 34.43 at Ã¢Ë†Å¡1.2/unit equals Ã¢Ë†Å¡41.316

Total fuel bill equals Ã¢Ë†Å¡3259.116, for a ticket price of Ã¢Ë†Å¡162.9558 per Kerbal.

Ticket Prices (per Kerbal)

Stock Aero

Juzeris, 6 passengers, Ã¢Ë†Å¡21

Starhawk, 26 passengers, Ã¢Ë†Å¡44.52

FlipNascar, 14 passengers, Ã¢Ë†Å¡63.93

Speeding Mullet, 10 passengers, Ã¢Ë†Å¡97.3072

Foxster, 4 passengers, Ã¢Ë†Å¡122.5

FAR/NEAR

Wanderfound, 10 passengers, Ã¢Ë†Å¡99.06704

Wanderfound, 10 passengers, Ã¢Ë†Å¡112.87874

Wanderfound, 20 passengers, Ã¢Ë†Å¡162.9558

UnusualAttitude, 52 passengers, Ã¢Ë†Å¡203.1

Edited April 9, 2015 by Wanderfound

Speeding Mullet · April 4, 2015

I was planning on doing the Laythe Capitalism Challenge eventually, then this one cropped up and I thought it would be a good start. I converted my K-Prize ship (capable of landings on both Minmus and Mun in the same mission), removing the cargo bay and substituting for crew pods. Let's check in on the team and see how they got on on this wondrous voyage to the mint ball:

Ten Kerbals onboard and the fuel bill was:

LF: 970.67 at Ã¢Ë†Å¡0.8/unit equals Ã¢Ë†Å¡776.536

O: 1046 at Ã¢Ë†Å¡0.18/unit equals Ã¢Ë†Å¡188.28

MP: 6.88 at Ã¢Ë†Å¡1.2/unit equals Ã¢Ë†Å¡8.256

Total fuel bill equals Ã¢Ë†Å¡973.072, for a ticket price of Ã¢Ë†Å¡97.3072 per Kerbal.

Wanderfound · April 4, 2015

Cool, competition. :cool:

Ten Kerbals onboard and the fuel bill was:

LF: 1159.63 at Ã¢Ë†Å¡0.8/unit equals Ã¢Ë†Å¡927.704

O: 1117.13 at Ã¢Ë†Å¡0.18/unit equals Ã¢Ë†Å¡201.0834

MP: 0 at Ã¢Ë†Å¡1.2/unit equals Ã¢Ë†Å¡0

Total fuel bill equals Ã¢Ë†Å¡1128.7874, for a ticket price of Ã¢Ë†Å¡112.87874 per Kerbal. Almost, but not quite there; I think I need to be a bit more conservative with the flying...

UnusualAttitude · April 4, 2015

I'm working on it.... I just need to get this monstrosity to space with enough dV get make the return trip to Minmus.

Do you think 1,700m/s will do it?

Wanderfound · April 4, 2015

About 1,000 ÃŽâ€V to get there, a few hundred to get down, not much to get back up and return. Make sure you've got some excess LF; judging the aerobrake to put yourself near KSC is quite tricky.

1,700 might do it, 2,000 would be a lot more comfortable.

gigaboom2 · April 4, 2015

Does it need to land at KSC?

Wanderfound · April 4, 2015

If you land elsewhere, the lost recovery percentage is included in your costs (so you'd need to do it in a career save instead of sandbox, to get the recovery cost numbers). It'd be hard to get a competitive ticket price without landing at least close to KSC.

hoioh · April 4, 2015

I'll second wanderfound on that one, the difference on my Laythe entry was 200% when I landed right next to the runway at the KSC, versus just on the runway. Recovery cost can really push your ticket price.

Wanderfound · April 4, 2015

OTOH, there's nothing stopping you from landing nearby to KSC and then taxiing onto the runway before ending the voyage. Does require wheels, though.

hoioh · April 4, 2015

There's always that option. With something resembling a plane that would even be fairly easy. Wings add drag though and so do wheels, so the most eficient option would be to just land it where it ought to, but wheels are still better than missing the runway by about 20 meters....

FlipNascar · April 4, 2015

It's not going to win any beauty contests, but the Crampy Bus works. It's ugly on the ground, the wings flex... Usually I just brute force my space "planes" because it's all about getting there quickly and having insane TWR. This time I did it properly with enough lift...

LF/O at Launch: 975/825

LF/O Remaining at KSC return: 28.41/31.76

LF: 946.59 at Ã¢Ë†Å¡0.8/unit equals Ã¢Ë†Å¡752.27

O: 793.24 at Ã¢Ë†Å¡0.18/unit equals Ã¢Ë†Å¡142.78

14 Seats total, total fuel bill: Ã¢Ë†Å¡895.05, with a per seat cost of, Ã¢Ë†Å¡63.93

Download link (Edit: forgot to clean off the MJ unit - so needs MJ...): https://www.dropbox.com/s/g0jihdwnpgfcojv/Crampy%20Minmus.craft?dl=0

Foxster · April 4, 2015

Well, I went at this a little differently. I give you the PikNik #2...

I was down to a couple of hundred dV after Kerbin aerobraking and I really didn't think my guys were going to get back in one piece. No 'chutes of course. They ran out of fuel at 20m! Luckily I had put some "landing feet" on with decent crash tolerance and so apart from making 4 holes they got down OK.

Had 490 liquid fuel and 544 oxy at launch and had just 10.42 oxy left on touchdown.

LF: 490 at Ã¢Ë†Å¡0.8/unit equals Ã¢Ë†Å¡392

O: 544 at Ã¢Ë†Å¡0.18/unit equals Ã¢Ë†Å¡98

Total - Ã¢Ë†Å¡490 / 4 = Ã¢Ë†Å¡122.5 per seat

Wanderfound · April 5, 2015

A slightly tidier attempt...

Ten Kerbals onboard and the fuel bill was:

LF: 1000 at Ã¢Ë†Å¡0.8/unit equals Ã¢Ë†Å¡800

O: 1059.28 at Ã¢Ë†Å¡0.18/unit equals Ã¢Ë†Å¡190.6704

MP: 0 at Ã¢Ë†Å¡1.2/unit equals Ã¢Ë†Å¡0

Total fuel bill equals Ã¢Ë†Å¡990.6704, for a ticket price of Ã¢Ë†Å¡99.06704 per Kerbal.

Apart from a few radial intakes, this is identical to my previous attempt, but substantially cheaper. Flying a maximally-efficient profile makes a large difference.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Wanderfound

UnusualAttitude · April 6, 2015

A late entry... I had to put up with all sorts of problems with design, dV budget, weird FAR drag issues and awful frame rates. But it was worth every tedious second just for this awesome screen shot...

No way near Wanderfound's design in terms of efficiency:

-10,532 units of LF and 11,864 Ox.

-10,561.12 funds for 52 passengers and crew.

-203,1 funds per seat.

...but traveling in such style and comfort comes at a price, right?

By the way, Wander: I don't know what deals QANTAS crew get, but even Ryan Air pilots don't have to pay for their own seats...just saying. :sticktongue:

UA.

Thunderous Echo · April 6, 2015

I have a plan.

Step 1: Revert to version 0.24

Step 2: Use a "Strategy: Fundraising Campaign" to convert reputation to funds.

Step 3: Get 25 reputation per recovered kerbal, which converts to 225 funds per kerbal.

Step 4: Give passengers money for flying to Minmus and back.

See you in a few hours, after I've bought an industrial bucket of external command seats.

Also, this idea is copyrighted. I charge a royalty of 225 funds per passenger to use it.

Starhawk · April 6, 2015

"Just the place for a trip!" Des Kerman cried,

As he landed his crew with care,

They frolicked on Minmus and joyfully sighed

"We can fly on small jets of air!"

...

"Its form is ungainly - its thrust is quite small -"

(So Des Kerman would often quip)

"But its delta-v's perfect, and that after all,"

"Is the thing that one needs for a trip."

The Minmus Star 3 cost 103632 in the hangar and 102484 was recovered for a total cost of 1148 funds. Divided by 26 Kerbals that makes 44.15 funds per Kerbal. 100% stock.

I recalculated this using the method others used in this thread and it came out slightly different.

1300.53 Liquid Fuel at 0.8 funds each is 1040.424

651 Oxygen at 0.18 funds each is 117.18

for a total of 1157.604 divided by 26 Kerbals makes 44.52 funds per Kerbal.

So, I affectionately call this thing Candle-ends, and I chose two bad-ass pilots to occupy the cockpit. Good thing, too. The risk of a tail strike on take-off is significant.

It took a bit of work to coerce it into orbit. And in vacuum it maneuvers like a tanker. Beautiful performance on landing, though. I overshot KSC and had to turn back to land, but that was no problem at all.

I'll post the craft file if anyone asks.

With apologies to Lewis Carroll.

p.s. More images added to album.

Thanks for the challenge,

Happy landings!

Thunderous Echo · April 7, 2015

Dang it, steam won't revert past 0.25. I'll need to do this the legitimate way.

Radam · April 8, 2015

Either you used alot less fuel than you had, didnt have your tanks full or something more funny. As even rocket tanks on your wings hold 12 t of fuel, or 1320 units of oxidiser. Compared to 650 you said to have used. Liquid fuel wise, assuming all center tanks hold only that, you had 2560 units of LF.

So in the end you should still have more than half of fuel left, but the picture before landing shows engines with a few slivers of fuel.

Seems interesting to me.

Van Disaster · April 8, 2015

What control mods are ok for this? I have bad hands, I'd at least like to use Pilot Assistant, trying to fly with a keyboard ( or unfortunately a stick ) gets painful quite fast. MJ translatron ( or throttle controlled avionics ) would be nice for landing on Minmus but not a big deal.

Starhawk · April 8, 2015

There were three empty sections of tank behind the cockpit which were used as structural members. The two FL-T800 tanks contained only liquid fuel.

I probably should have had the resource panel opened for all the screenshots. Anyway, here's a pic with the fuel tank tabs opened.

I'll post the craft file if you're interested.

Happy landings!

Wanderfound · April 8, 2015

It's more design than piloting, so go for it. I habitually use Mechjeb for simple things like circularisation myself, anyway.

- - - Updated - - -

Stylish.

Try a ten-Kerbal version; that seems to be the sweet spot.

juzeris · April 8, 2015

I decided to do a no frills service like Foxster, except why bring that jet to Minmus. And it turns out leaving it at home adds tons of efficiency.

Presenting the Tabletka Duo, a bare bones vessel capable of reaching Minmus. Barely. It can carry up to six Kerbals, but carry-on luggage will have to be held for the whole trip.

It has three stages, stage 3 is just launch clamps to let Kerbals climb into the seats and are recovered from the launchpad, stage 2 is a turbojet engine with air intakes, a drone core and some gyroscopes, stage 1 is just a small Rockomax engine and some tanks, and the six seats. The jet carries it out of the atmosphere, and is left to reenter (landing at KSC, of course), while the Rocko carries it to Minmus.

Starting price: 80 970

Recovered parts: Jet booster 60023, launch clamps 6 155x2, stage 1 - 8 511, total recovered: 80 844

Total cost: 126

Divide by six Kerbals: 21 funds/Kerbal

(Calculating the other way, it has 110 oxidizer and 135 fuel, recovered 2.36 fuel and 0.76 oxidizer, so used 132.64 fuel worth 106.112 and 109.24 oxidizer worth 19.6632, for a total of 125.7752 or 20.962533(3)/Kerbal)

Completely stock, used MechJeb for flying it.

Edited April 8, 2015 by juzeris

Radam · April 8, 2015

I present to you a Magic Schoolbus! A nice warm trip for 16 kerbals, now without pilot danger. Excursions are planned at both sides of the trip!

http://imgur.com/a/3Sv43

642.4 LF and 597.4 LO used which makes it to 38.8 per each of 16 passangers.

(seems i havent dont this for so long I forgot how to insert an album)

Edited April 9, 2015 by Radam

Wanderfound · April 9, 2015

I like the concept, but unless you've got pics of driving it home to KSC you're going to have to add the recovery loss to your costs...

LtColTeddyBear · April 10, 2015

Would KJR be allowed?

Kerbodyne Challenge Series: Minmus Tourism

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