no ice caps at poles on eve, and evidence the seas there are water.

[Findthepin1]

so i sent an ocean lander to eve, i did it in about 45 minutes real-time. while on a collision course with the planet, at about 400km up, i noticed there wasn't ice caps at the poles. i know this because the thing touched down near the south pole. the wiki said the minimum temperature on eve is -40.19, i think this is in celsius because i tried it on kerbin's poles. therefore there should be ice somewhere on eve assuming the oceans are water. i think they're water because the only other alternative is that they're rocket fuel. they can't be, as i am explaining. irl, at sunrise/sunset the sky is purple because there's more air for the light to pass through horizontally. on eve the pressure is higher and so this effect is also in daytime. 5 atm=2.24 times the air for light to pass through (from google) so the purple sunset effect can be seen at daylight there, like the more air at sunset irl on earth. so the atmosphere must be kerbinlike. if it is, there is at least 1 atm of oxygen mixed in to the air, which means there would have been a fire sometime in the planet's past. a fire with rocket-fuel oceans would mean the planet should have had exploded already. but it didn't so it's not rocket fuel. water's the next most obvious thing, so it's likely that. if it is water, there should be polar caps, because it is apparently below zero at the poles, but there aren't. can anyone explain this to me?

[Tex]

Whew, that's a mouthful.

With such a high pressure of atmosphere on Eve, I believe that the oceans could be made of liquid water because of how pressure works. Physics class, don't fail me now...

As pressure increases, temperature also goes up because of the reduced amount of space that the liquid or gas or what have you will be compressed. I think that Eve's oceans could be liquid as the atmosphere is pushing down on the oceans, preventing it from freezing. I dunno though, I better let someone with a diploma check the facts, that's just my theory.

[Rhomphaia]

1. There isn't any oxygen in Eves atmosphere. Not enough to ignite rocket fuel anyway otherwise jet engines would work there.

2. Since when are rocket fuel and water the only liquids that exist?

Edited April 9, 2015 by Rhomphaia

[MalfunctionM1Ke]

It is the tears of all the Kerbals that got stranded on Eve and never returned home

[stupid_chris]

There are flaws in your reasoning. If the oceans were to be made of rocket fuel, I see no reason for the planet to blow up without the presence of a comburant (an oxidizer). And there are no hints of any oxidizing agent on Eve really. You probably couldn't spark a flame on it's surface. And If they *were* made of water, there would be ice caps. The freezing point at 5atm is pretty much still 0°C. There's no logical explanation to having water on Eve. So yes, given this is what the knowledge base says, rocket fuel does make sense. Whatever that might be. Else, an iodine compound would make sense and would explain the purple colouration of the atmospere.

[KerikBalm]

"the wiki said the minimum temperature on eve is -40.19"

#1) Its already well known that the temperature readings are a placeholder and aren't "accurate" or really that meaningful

#2) That is not the surface temperature as far as I know. Who cares if the reading says -40 at 70 km?

#3) Did you measure the temperature yourself?

what if the coldest surface temperature is the top of a nightside equatorial mountain?

"i think they're water because the only other alternative is that they're rocket fuel."

No, that is not the only alternative

"the sky is purple because there's more air for the light to pass through horizontally"

No.... if that were true, then sunsets on earth would be purple. Sunlight passes through more air at sunset than at noon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayleigh_scattering

"5 atm=2.24 times the air for light to pass through (from google)"

I don't know what you googled, but that is not even close to right.

"so the atmosphere must be kerbinlike." - No, for the above reasons. You are really jumping to conclusions here.

"if it is, there is at least 1 atm of oxygen mixed in to the air,"

Its not, and even if it was "kerbin-like", we don't know how alike it is... maybe its mainly N2, just like Earh (and presumably Kerbin) have mainly N2 atmospheres.

"a fire with rocket-fuel oceans would mean the planet should have had exploded already. but it didn't so it's not rocket fuel."

There are alternatives other than rocket fuel or water, and its quite clear that the atmosphere does not contain oxygen. That last part is not in dispute.

"if it is water, there should be polar caps, because it is apparently below zero at the poles,"

Who says it is below zero at the poles?

Who says its freshwater?

Brine (ie very very salty water) has a very low freezing point already (you know salt water freezes at a lower temperature than freshwater, correct?) Increasing the pressure (and the pressure is very high) further decreases the freezing point.

So in summary:

* The temperature scan results shouldn't be relied on as far as "game canon"

* There is nothing to say that temperature occurs at the poles (go find evidence if it bugs you that much)

* The atmosphere does not contain oxygen so it could be a hydrocarbon, or a variety of other substances

* At high enough pressure and salt concentrations, it does seem you can get water to be liquid at -40 (at least very high pressure[very high, much higher than 5 atm] can depress the freezing point by 20 degrees, and very high salt can also do that, I don't know if the effects are additive)

Ok?

I'm more interested in the flats of Minmus myself.... what are those... how did they form? why does it have no craters?

Edited April 9, 2015 by KerikBalm

[Roskerbos]

Else, an iodine compound would make sense and would explain the purple colouration of the atmospere.

Actually, more likely a non-polar organic solvent such as hexane, with gaseous iodine dissolved in it. Only iodine itself is purple, and in polar solvents, even it becomes yellow-orange in colour.

An abundance of iodine on Eve would further explain the absence of oxygen in the atmosphere, however. Iodides are usually mild reducing agents, and react with oxygen, giving off iodine. Thus the oxygen has been locked in the planet's crust and a haze of iodine rich gas floats above.

Iodine's compounds can be any colour, and, very often, are no colour at all.

Some potassium iodide, yesterday.

[NovaSilisko]

In the SiliskoCanonâ„¢, Eve's oceans are filled with Angry Radioactive Death Quicksand.

The original idea was that the oceans were mercury, but that was stupid and impossible. Later I had the idea that they would be a deep layer of hot mud, rich in radioactive material. Then there was an offhand comment/joke made that they were made of rocket fuel, which seems to have been taken and ran with by the community.

I regret making it purple, though. Or at least, as purple as it is. Same for Jool and its green-ness.

[livefree75]

Same reason why Kerbol is a star and Kerbin supports life.

[Vanamonde]

Don't spend too much time trying to deduce the science of the game. Much of it is a work in progress, and can't be made to make sense. For example, the current temperature system is a placeholder, and is essentially meaningless. Kerbin's equator and poles read as the same temp, even though the poles are iced over.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Vanamonde

[Sandworm]

Don't spend too much time trying to deduce the science of the game. Much of it is a work in progress, and can't be made to make sense. For example, the current temperature system is a placeholder, and is essentially meaningless. Kerbin's equator and poles read as the same temp, even though the poles are iced over.

I would go further and say that it will not ever make sense. Temperature, pressure, gases ... these planets are so small they probably shouldn't even be round. But they need to be to support KSP's spheres-in-a-vacuum approach to physics. The colour pallet for the planets is as it is because it looks good and provides visual diversity. If Squad stuck to any notion of accuracy when it comes to light and colour in space, KSP would be almost black-and-white. (For reference see the TV series "Space:Above and Beyond"). I would dismiss any notion that Squad will ever carefully calculate a temperature gradient for eve to justify its lack of polar caps. They will always have other priorities.

[Tw1]

I regret making it purple, though. Or at least, as purple as it is. Same for Jool and its green-ness.

But it's weird purpleness is awesome!

It's purpleness does leave it open to speculation that it could be inhabited by purple bacteria,, but I like to think it's due to the sand.

Sand is tends to be basically quartz. Quartz added iron impurities and exposure to radiation can become amethyst. Continued exposure can maintain the purple colour, despite exposure to heat and light.

Though if this is the case, we'd expect to see a little more variation in Eve's colour.

I like to think of Eve as a carbon-rich planet, a cross between Venus and Titan, with the oceans being a thick mix of water, long chain hydrocarbons, and purple dust.Also mercury and grape juice.

Don't spend too much time trying to deduce the science of the game. Much of it is a work in progress, and can't be made to make sense. For example, the current temperature system is a placeholder, and is essentially meaningless. Kerbin's equator and poles read as the same temp, even though the poles are iced over.

Which is something I'd hoped would've been fixed back in 0.22, but instead, we got science as points and grinding...

Though, if you play with E.V.E, and give Eve thick clouds, the large range of temperatures isn't too infeasible. Clouds restrict the amount of sunlight that can get to the surface, and oceans mess with how heat is distributed. Though this works better if you imagine Eve working as if it was a full size planet.