T1 Runway is a joke?

[Shisouka]

I just tried to fly my first plane in a new career game (very hard settings, no revert).

How are we supposed to get a plane off that bumpy piece of a rally track?

It seems easier to just ignore the runway and start on the grassland to the left ...

Ps. Jeb died a fiery death, lots of precious funds down the drain, no room for more contracts, failing the contracts will ruin this career game ... Game over.

[Damien_The_Unbeliever]

MK1 cockpit, fuselage with fuel, fuselage with air intake, basic jet engine (apologies if I've got names wrong. Away from game/unable to access the wiki from here). Pair of type B wing panels and a few control surfaces will happily take off from that runway.

So I guess it depends on what sort of aircraft you're building.

Edited April 10, 2015 by Damien_The_Unbeliever
typo

[Motokid600]

Wider wheel base, more ground clearance and accelerate slowly. It's possible, but you have to design your plane around it until you can upgrade it.

You gotta make a rally plane for the rally runway.

[SkyRex94]

you won't get an SSTO to liftoff there (assuming FAR or NEAR), but anything that has short take of capabilities can happily fly, like a motor-glider. Just make your wings bigger to have more lift and get of the ground faster. The runway can't be used with high speeds, but not every aircraft needs high speeds on the ground.

[Varsi]

I thought landing was the real problem on that runway... It does seem a bit extreme when rest of the planet is so smooth.

[AlexinTokyo]

This.

I don't mind (actually quite like) the bumpy, undeveloped feel of the tier-1 runway, but it really doesn't make any sense given that the ground surrounding it is a billiard table.

It's like the Kerbal engineers who built the runway deliberately bumpied (perfectly cromulent word there) it up, for some reason.

[Superfluous J]

Just turn your plane around in the hangar before you send it to the runway.

Also?

(very hard settings, no revert).

Jeb died a fiery death, lots of precious funds down the drain, no room for more contracts, failing the contracts will ruin this career game ... Game over.

You set up the game so if you fail once you lose, and you're mad that failing once has caused you to lose? If it wasn't the runway it'd have been something else.

[Linear]

I just tried to fly my first plane in a new career game (very hard settings, no revert).

How are we supposed to get a plane off that bumpy piece of a rally track?

It seems easier to just ignore the runway and start on the grassland to the left ...

Ps. Jeb died a fiery death, lots of precious funds down the drain, no room for more contracts, failing the contracts will ruin this career game ... Game over.

Sounds like it wasn't on a easier difficulty, but...thats..what you..wanted...?

[katateochi]

*snip It's like the Kerbal engineers who built the runway deliberately bumpied (perfectly cromulent word there) it up, for some reason.

It's all the soil they removed when constructing the other buildings, they didn't know what to do with it so they just dumped it in a long line and then thought "hey we could make a runway" but they're waiting for funds to hire a steamroller.

I also quite like the dirt track runway! Took off from it without wheels

[Shisouka]

Recreated the plane in sandbox ..

Take off .. check.

Altitude reached .. check.

At the right speed .. check.

Should have gotten the damn crew report .. check.

@katateochi

Good design idea. I should have used SRBs and launch stabilization system too .. ^^

Regarding my difficult settings:

Its not a massive grind fest. But I still enjoy doing the nearly impossible with very limited funds. Call me masochistic, but walking on the edge of total failure is thrilling. (Long time Diablo Hardcore player here ..)

[RocketBlam]

MK1 cockpit, fuselage with fuel, fuselage with air intake, basic jet engine (apologies if I've got names wrong. Away from game/unable to access the wiki from here). Pair of type B wing panels and a few control surfaces will happily take off from that runway.

So I guess it depends on what sort of aircraft you're building.

Yeah, if you are experienced enough to build that kind of a plane, with really high lift, I guess it might take off. Is that what we can expect new users to build? Before they have even upgraded the runway?

Anyway, I'm saying I agree with the OP. That runway is essentially unusable at the tech level you first try to use it. I always upgrade it before I even try to take off with anything. I understand that the designers were thinking "how to we make a runway less.... technological?" But the reality is, before it's upgraded, it is useless for almost any low-tech aircraft, which is not the case with the VAB/Launch pad.

Edited April 10, 2015 by RocketBlam

[klgraham1013]

Wait. Do I see people actually making excuses for that runway? That can't be right.

edit: Maybe to much snark, but that runway is ridiculous.

Edited April 10, 2015 by klgraham1013

[GoSlash27]

Yeah, if you are experienced enough to build that kind of a plane, with really high lift, I guess it might take off. Is that what we can expect new users to build? Before they have even upgraded the runway?

Sure, why not? I wouldn't expect a new user to ramp up the difficulty to max before learning how to build a rough- field capable airplane.

I don't find that runway very difficult to work with for what the player is attempting to accomplish at tier 1. You're pretty much just flying around collecting science and doing part testing. You don't need a big plane to do that.

Having said that, it is absurd that the runway is bumpier than the surrounding terrain.

Best,

-Slashy

[Whirligig Girl]

I am a supporter of Dres and all things Lumpy, so I like the runway.

I'm kidding. I hate Dres.

[Skorpychan]

I had no issue with it when launching my first plane. But then, it didn't have much of a takeoff run because I didn't even have any wheels unlocked for it. It was literally sat on three girders for takeoff.

Didn't have the part count for clamps, either.

Landing would have been tricksy, had I not gone into a spin and pulled the Emergency Chutes for a water landing and a cruise in to KSC.

[monophonic]

Sure, why not? I wouldn't expect a new user to ramp up the difficulty to max before learning how to build a rough- field capable airplane.

I don't find that runway very difficult to work with for what the player is attempting to accomplish at tier 1. You're pretty much just flying around collecting science and doing part testing. You don't need a big plane to do that.

Having said that, it is absurd that the runway is bumpier than the surrounding terrain.

Best,

-Slashy

Completely agree. I think the first runway would be much better if it was smoother, say undulating rather than filled with sharp bumps. It would still penalize planes with heavy wing loading that need to take off and land fast. Smaller, lighter and slower planes would be more forgiving to smoother slopes.

[KerikBalm]

taki to the green, takeoff, problem solved...

I often land on the green alongside the runway, and then taxi onto it for 100% recovery.

Even with the tier 3 runway.

[pincushionman]

…But the reality is, before it's upgraded, it is useless for almost any low-tech aircraft, which is not the case with the VAB/Launch pad.

And the problem THERE is that there aren't any corresponding real low-tech airplane parts. Lightweight cockpits, IC engines and propellers, small LF-only fuel tanks, and the thermometer and barometer need to be unlocked BEFORE the Goo and the Science Jr., so that said lightweight planes can actually be used for something.

[Deutherius]

I had no problems taking off from the runway with my first scientific plane - on the contrary, the bumps pretty much threw me into the air. Landing was the hard part. But then again, landing a plane that takes off and flies at 20 m/s is hard anywhere in KSP (thank SQUAD for parachutes).

Anyway, upgrading the runway is not all that expensive and will pay for itself if you really want to include planes in your space program.

[cicatrix]

I never bother with that runway - I drive off it and start from the grass nearby.

[RainDreamer]

The runway is actually pretty great!

For rover testing, that is. You can now test your rover on bumpy surfaces like ones on other bodies. Hard to find such a place on kerbin.

[T-Bouw]

In the beginning of a career, I usually build planes that takeoff and land vertically. A parachute is used for landing of particularly nasty flying bricks.

By the time I can unlock the Landing Gear Bay, I will have enough money to upgrade the runway.

But still, what everyone said, pretty ridiculous that everything on kerbin is smooth exept the T1 runway.

[Damien_The_Unbeliever]

Yeah, if you are experienced enough to build that kind of a plane, with really high lift, I guess it might take off. Is that what we can expect new users to build? Before they have even upgraded the runway?

That's just about the first thing you can build that resembles a plane (unless I've for some reason adapted myself into a weird way of unlocking tech). At that point I've unlocked the cockpit, only one type of wing, one type of control surface and the basic jet engine.

[Tex_NL]

...

But still, what everyone said, pretty ridiculous that everything on kerbin is smooth exept the T1 runway.

So very true. Even the T1 runway should be easier to use than the grassland surrounding it.

[Van Disaster]

Just wait, now all the grass beside it is going to be swamp in 1.0, should have kept quiet about it

But yes, if the runway is too rough, use something smoother. It's too short anyway, I've been asking for a longer runway for quite a few versions.