new aero eve ascent

[Findthepin1]

in the new aero will eve-surface-to-orbit still be possible?

also it needs clouds

and rain

and volcanoes

and in general made more venus-like without melting our valuable eve ascent lander from acid

or heat

or crushing it from pressure

or leaking in carbon dioxide and killing all life inside

or leaking out oxygen and killing all life outside

or evaporating it

or getting purple dust in it

or any dust really

or being flooded by eve water (water?)

etc.

thx

[smjjames]

DOn't forget the sulphuric acid (rain). ;D

"or crushing it from pressure

or leaking in carbon dioxide and killing all life inside

or leaking out oxygen and killing all life outside"

If it's leaking in, CO2 is going to be the least of your worries because you'd be dead from the pressure implosion.

I suppose that it'll be about as easy as it is with FAR, maybe slightly harder, and that's without the heat. As for the heat, just don't go too fast.

Edited April 16, 2015 by smjjames

[Xavven]

in the new aero will eve-surface-to-orbit still be possible?

While none of us know for sure (except the devs and testers), we can probably make some pretty good educated guesses. We know that the popular mod, FAR, more realistically models a real-life atmosphere. When playing with FAR installed it takes less delta-v to get to orbit on all the bodies with atmosphere -- Kerbin, Eve, and Laythe included (probably Jool too, but not the Sun). Since Squad is also going for realism with their new aero, it could be reasonable to assume that it would take less delta-v to get to orbit.

Buuuut Squad has also stated that they're going to rebalance the stats on all their engines to counterbalance it, and keep the challenge of getting to LKO. Will the engine nerf be so bad that it would be impossible to return from Eve? I highly doubt it. Any engine nerf that would make an Eve return impossible would also make it impossible to launch off of Kerbin with enough remaining delta-v to get to Hohmann transfer to places like Moho or Jool.

[CalculusWarrior]

I agree with Xavven. It will never be impossible to return from Eve. Heck, somebody made a Jool lander and returned. Maybe the rebalanced engines will make it harder. Maybe the new aero will prevail and make it easier. Either way, we'll find out when 1.0 is released!

[Warzouz]

That would be stupid to have celestial bodies you can't get back from. This game is mainly about exploration. If you can't return from Eve, going to loose it's fun. Best to remove Eve, then.

[Hotblack Desiato]

in modded ksp, people can have planets with really crushing gravity (in alternis kerbol, tylo had 4g of surface gravity and half a bar surface pressure, and there are other similar planets, currently for example new horizons titanus).

and people built landers for that, which were capable of launching back again to orbit.

I think, only kerbol itself is untouched...

[Vaporo]

DOn't forget the sulphuric acid (rain). ;D

Actually, I like the theory that Eve's atmosphere is made of iodine, as it is apparently purple in its gaseous form.

[Asharad]

Sulfuric acid upper atmosphere. Surface conditions of 460C and 1300 PSI. Yeah, I'll pass on realism.

[Xyrus]

DOn't forget the sulphuric acid (rain). ;D

"or crushing it from pressure

or leaking in carbon dioxide and killing all life inside

or leaking out oxygen and killing all life outside"

If it's leaking in, CO2 is going to be the least of your worries because you'd be dead from the pressure implosion.

I suppose that it'll be about as easy as it is with FAR, maybe slightly harder, and that's without the heat. As for the heat, just don't go too fast.

And cowbell. We need more cowbell.

[boxley]

personally i think eve is composed entirely of grape koolaid powder, supersaturated in the purple seas and staining the atmosphere with grapey flavour.

[yardpup01]

More important than the new aero is the ISP fix which now has thrust vary with ISP. This means engines will produce much less thrust on Eve's surface than on Kerbin's. The new battle won't be having enough dV to get to orbit, but having enough thrust to even get off the ground.

[Red Iron Crown]

More important than the new aero is the ISP fix which now has thrust vary with ISP. This means engines will produce much less thrust on Eve's surface than on Kerbin's. The new battle won't be having enough dV to get to orbit, but having enough thrust to even get off the ground.

I agree with this. I'd add that the implementation of thrust scaling will matter greatly. If it stays like it is now and Isp gets no worse than at 1 atm even at higher pressures then Eve will get a bit more difficult but still achievable. If the new mechanic takes higher pressures into account (Eve sea level is about 5 atm), it will be a much tougher nut to crack (and maybe even impossible).

[Starwhip]

Assuming there is still an engine that has a TWR greater than 1 on the surface of Eve, it is possible.

[Starhawk]

If the new mechanic takes higher pressures into account (Eve sea level is about 5 atm), it will be a much tougher nut to crack (and maybe even impossible).

Well, I did hear those birds... And that's sure what it sounded like they were saying. We shall see. Very soon apparently.

Happy landings!

[Red Iron Crown]

Assuming there is still an engine that has a TWR greater than 1 on the surface of Eve, it is possible.

Maybe. Don't forget that with new aero it likely won't be as simple as just making a sufficiently large asparagus arrangement.

Again though, it depends on if higher pressures are modeled. If engines behave at Eve sea level the same as they do at Kerbin sea level I don't think it will get that much more difficult.

[MalfunctionM1Ke]

When I hear more Venus-like, the atmospheric pressure Comes into my mind.

While Eve only has 5bar, Venus has 90bar at sealevel.

[Xaver]

Drag is relativ to mass now. Eve ascent vehicles are quiet heavy. Maybe with we will get an advantage if we build slim with 1.0.

[OhioBob]

I'd add that the implementation of thrust scaling will matter greatly. If it stays like it is now and Isp gets no worse than at 1 atm even at higher pressures then Eve will get a bit more difficult but still achievable. If the new mechanic takes higher pressures into account (Eve sea level is about 5 atm), it will be a much tougher nut to crack (and maybe even impossible).

With the current engines in the game, surface Isp on Eve would be atrocious if the curve were allowed to extend all the way to 5 atm. Take a LV-T45 for instance... it's Isp at 5 atm would be only 120 s. However, those engines are configured for use on Kerbin, not Eve. By having special purpose, low expansion ratio engines designed specifically for Eve, a respectable Isp could still be achieved, perhaps only 5-10% lower than the sea level performance of current engines. Of course, such an engine would have very poor vacuum performance. For example, an engine designed for Eve might have an Isp of 270 s at 5 atm, but it's vacuum Isp would barely be any better, say 280 s. These engines would only be used during the early stages of ascent. Once the atmospheric pressure drops to close to 1 atm, you'd stage and switch to using the current engines.

[justidutch]

personally i think eve is composed entirely of grape koolaid powder, supersaturated in the purple seas and staining the atmosphere with grapey flavour.

And how do you go about explaining the lime flavour during sunsets?

[godefroi]

I think we might be in trouble if Squad simply nerfs all engines by 25% to balance out the aero. While new aero will affect Eve, Kerbin, and Laythe (and Jool...), straight-up engine nerfs affect every body (and transfer) in the system. Tylo would get significantly more difficult. So would Moho.

[jake9039]

a jool lander? I MUST see!