[1.12.x] USI Life Support

[BetaguyGZT]

3 hours ago, RoverDude said:

No reason to stop what you're working on... the existence of TAC-LS did not stop me making USI-LS, nor has USI-LS's existence stopped other folks making new mods in the same space.  Choice is a good thing

Thanks, chief.  I'm a big fan of your USI Mods, but the -LS portion had flown under my radar. I mean, I've seen the supply cans and such, but I guess I didn't put it together that it was that in-depth.

[Tokamak]

4 hours ago, RoverDude said:

Converters are not included in that equation at the moment - a good (rough) rule of thumb is that your fertilizer->supply style converters extends supplies at roughly a 10:1 ratio.  So if 1,000 supplies is giving you 90 days, if you make that 1,000 fertilizer you have something like 900 or so.

Oh right. I may have gotten kind of blinded by science and forgotten that simple ratio. But isn't the capacity of my greenhouses also important? If I have four kerbals, but my greenhouses are capable of growing enough food to keep three kerbals alive perpetually, then the math gets more complicated. Or is that just a case where the answer is "don't do that then"?

[RoverDude]

The answer is 'don't do that' because you will run out of mulch storage.

[Tokamak]

2 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

The answer is 'don't do that' because you will run out of mulch storage.

Fair enough. I think I need to go back and RTFM more carefully.  One last thing I'm slightly confused about, though. The presence of recyclers on a craft also does not change the supplies based time estimate, but I thought understood that recyclers in effect reduce consumption. Is that just not taken into account in the time estimation, or have I misunderstood?

 

This mod is amazing, just very, very complicated. @.@

[RoverDude]

It should - it's reflected in the VAB, and also (if they are enabled) in flight.

[cantab]

11 minutes ago, Tokamak said:

Oh right. I may have gotten kind of blinded by science and forgotten that simple ratio. But isn't the capacity of my greenhouses also important? If I have four kerbals, but my greenhouses are capable of growing enough food to keep three kerbals alive perpetually, then the math gets more complicated. Or is that just a case where the answer is "don't do that then"?

Should still be fairly straightforward. Three Kerbals each effectively consume fertilizer at a certain rate. The fourth effectively consumes supplies directly at a certain rate. Load up the appropriate combination of fertilizer and supplies. In some scenarios you may also want extra mulch storage, which you can do with the liquid-type Kontainers from USI Core or UKS. For example a base or station that's intermittently occupied or has varying population.

[RoverDude]

Also some trivia...  Mulch is like 90% waste water.

[BetaguyGZT]

Hey @RoverDude, if you don't mind, may I take a gander at your converter code? I'm looking for ways to future-proof BioMass, and I'm not entirely convinced that TAC-LS is going to remain supported down the road .. no offense to the current maintainers. I ask because I had trouble getting native Resource Conversion working.

[RoverDude]

I use stock converters.

[BetaguyGZT]

Yep, I saw.  That's why it's perfect. I had trouble finding documentation for the Resource Conversion API, thus my trouble. I think you've pointed me in the right direction simply by doing your own thing, hehe ... 

[Streetwind]

26 minutes ago, BetaguyGZT said:

Yep, I saw.  That's why it's perfect. I had trouble finding documentation for the Resource Conversion API, thus my trouble. I think you've pointed me in the right direction simply by doing your own thing, hehe ... 

If you bemoan the lack of documentation, then help create it... when you figure out how ModuleResourceConverter works, document it in the KSP API wiki!

(Though it looks like ModuleResourceConevrter inherits just about all of its fields from BaseConverter, so you'd have to poke at that one instead...)

[Tokamak]

I've been reading through the information on the wiki, and am gradually understanding this mod better. A couple questions though: (yes, I did try google first)

 

1: The Kolonization Statistics window doesn't seem to ever display anything, no matter what SOI I am on. There is also never any information in the planetary logistics window, or the orbital logistics window, even when I have set up logistics consumers, warehouses, and everything is demonstrably sharing resources.

2: I'm a bit unclear on what the "cultivator" is meant to be, or at least how it is different from a regular greenhouse. Not in terms of game mechanics, but what it represents.

3: Work space efficiency seems fiddly but interesting... but I haven't yet found any way to just view general information about how much work space there is, and what modifiers that is producing, and whatnot on an actual vessel.

 

[BetaguyGZT]

6 hours ago, Streetwind said:

If you bemoan the lack of documentation, then help create it... when you figure out how ModuleResourceConverter works, document it in the KSP API wiki!

(Though it looks like ModuleResourceConevrter inherits just about all of its fields from BaseConverter, so you'd have to poke at that one instead...)

I will indeed, sir.  Thanks for pointing me in the direction of the new Wiki. I'm looking it over, and wow is it quite dense information-wise.

[Oakshios]

I am sure this has been answered somewhere in the previous 100 plus pages, however, is there a way to save Jeb if he is in an orbit and without supplies or a docking port?

 

[Merkov]

1 hour ago, Oakshios said:

I am sure this has been answered somewhere in the previous 100 plus pages, however, is there a way to save Jeb if he is in an orbit and without supplies or a docking port?

 

The Klaw! It will let you dock with a vessel that lacks a docking port. Note, however, that while this will let you provide Jeb with supplies (if the rescue vessel has them) it will not reset habitation timers which may have also run out, so you may need to design a rescue craft with a klaw that is capable of de-orbiting. If Jeb's craft already has the deltaV and parachutes, your rescue craft could just be a probe core and klaw (just enough to provide you with remote control of Jeb's vessel. Obviously, you would need some way to dock this vessel with Jeb's (RCS fuel and thrusters, but those could be decoupled after docking). Hope this helps! Good luck saving Jeb!

[Oakshios]

50 minutes ago, Merkov said:

The Klaw! It will let you dock with a vessel that lacks a docking port. Note, however, that while this will let you provide Jeb with supplies (if the rescue vessel has them) it will not reset habitation timers which may have also run out, so you may need to design a rescue craft with a klaw that is capable of de-orbiting. If Jeb's craft already has the deltaV and parachutes, your rescue craft could just be a probe core and klaw (just enough to provide you with remote control of Jeb's vessel. Obviously, you would need some way to dock this vessel with Jeb's (RCS fuel and thrusters, but those could be decoupled after docking). Hope this helps! Good luck saving Jeb!

Thanks for the info.  He has 27 days of hab left.  Can I bring another vessel within 150m and replenish some of his supplies?

 

[RoverDude]

35 minutes ago, Oakshios said:

Thanks for the info.  He has 27 days of hab left.  Can I bring another vessel within 150m and replenish some of his supplies?

 

If you are running out of hab... get him home.  Supplies will not solve this.

[DStaal]

23 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

If you are running out of hab... get him home.  Supplies will not solve this.

27 days isn't 'running out of hab', at least if you're in Kerbin SOI (including the moons).  It's 'plenty of hab'. 

59 minutes ago, Oakshios said:

Thanks for the info.  He has 27 days of hab left.  Can I bring another vessel within 150m and replenish some of his supplies?

I think a lot of the logistics stuff checks to see if you're landed, but I'm not sure which do and don't.  Best just to dock.

Another option, if you don't have the claw, is to send up an engineer with a small supply pack and some tools.   Attach the supplies with KIS and he'll have them.

[Merkov]

7 minutes ago, DStaal said:

I think a lot of the logistics stuff checks to see if you're landed, but I'm not sure which do and don't.  Best just to dock.

Another option, if you don't have the claw, is to send up an engineer with a small supply pack and some tools.   Attach the supplies with KIS and he'll have them.

I believe you are right about the logistics stuff. I'm pretty sure the only way for stuff to be transferred in orbit is with Orbital Logistics, which as I recall is coming back soon^tm. Otherwise, you have to be landed.

I never thought of using KAS! That is a much better idea!

[ibanix]

You can also just send up another craft with extra space and have Jeb EVA over. You lose the first vehicle, but you save Jeb.

[Merkov]

4 minutes ago, ibanix said:

You can also just send up another craft with extra space and have Jeb EVA over. You lose the first vehicle, but you save Jeb.

If Jeb has run out of supplies, he won't be able to EVA.

[ibanix]

Oh yeah, if you have him set to go tourist, that's true.

[RoverDude]

As noted... if it is hab they are running over, they need more space (there's no other way to bump this up at this time, tho I have plans for that).  And @DStaal - you haven't seen some of my orbits

[Jim Starluck]

I'm getting some Spontaneous Unplanned Disassembly in my game, and I think I've finally figured out that it happens to a ship with Kerbals aboard who hit the end of their Hab timers.

Here's an example; a spacecraft on its way back from the Mun. I had to stay out there for a while in order to mine ore to both fulfill a contract, and to process into extra LFO so I could go rescue Bob after he ran out of EVA fuel about 7 km from the ship.

Spoiler

This is the same spacecraft, after I crank the time-warp up to 50x and the Hab timers hit zero.

Spoiler

At the moment of transition, I got spammed with messages about the four Kerbals first mutinying and then returning to duty, and half the ship just vanished. The parts didn't explode or overheat or suffer structural failure, they just flat-out up and vanished. I'd had this afflict my first space station this game too, but I didn't realize what was causing it at the time. In some cases, parts will simply detach from the ship -- lose their connection and float away.

Higher time-warp when the timer expires seems to influence the degree of parts that vanish/detach; at particularly high factors only the command pod is left. The hab timers also seem to always reset afterwards, to a much higher value -- sometimes 60 days, sometimes 90.

 

Incidentally, you may want to make information on how the habitation space works a little easier to find; I wound up having to dig through the changelogs until I saw the post that said "see forum for details," and then had to page through the thread until I found posts around that date. Maybe edit something into the OP about it?

 

Edit: Also double-checked my settings file. I noticed the effect of destroying a part for Mutinous in the Side Effects... but nothing is set to use that level of effect:

Spoiler

LIFE_SUPPORT_SETTINGS
{
    SupplyTime = 324000            //How many seconds before Kerbals are affected by no supplies
    EVATime = 21600                //How many seconds before ill effects on EVA
    ECAmount = 0.01                //EC per Kerbal per second                        
    SupplyAmount = 0.00075        //Supplies consumed per Kerbal per second
    WasteAmount = 0.00075        //Mulch produced per Kerbal per second
    NoSupplyEffect = 1            //Effect if a Kerbal has no supplies or EC
    NoSupplyEffectVets = 1        //Effect if a Kerbal is a vet and has no supplies or EC
    EVAEffect = 1                //Effect if a Kerbal exceeds EVA time        
    EVAEffectVets = 1            //Effect if a Kerbal is a vet and exceeds EVA time
    NoHomeEffect = 0            //Effect if a Kerbal becomes homesick
    NoHomeEffectVets = 0        //Effect if a Kerbal is a vet and becomes homesick
    HabMultiplier = 5            //Bonus to hab values (1 = default = 100% of the part's rated value)
    HomeWorldAltitude = 25000    //Altitude on Kerbin that negative effects are removed
    BaseHabTime = 1                //How long can 1 crew capacity support 1 Kerbal, expressed in Kerbal Months
    ReplacementPartAmount = 0    //How fast life support equipment and habs 'wears out'
    HabRange = 150                //How close we need to be to use other vessel's habitation modules and recyclers.
    EnableRecyclers = true        //Use resource recyclers?  Not the same as resource converteres like greenhouses!
    VetNames = Jebediah,Valentina,Bill,Bob    
}

//  SIDE EFFECTS:
//
//  0 = No Effect (The feature is effectively turned off
//  1 = Grouchy (they become a Tourist until rescued)
//  2 = Mutinous (A tourist, but destroys a part of a nearby vessel...)
//  3 = Instantly 'wander' back to the KSC - don't ask us how!
//  4 = M.I.A. (will eventually respawn)
//  5 = K.I.A.

 

 

Edited June 21, 2016 by Jim Starluck

[Merkov]

34 minutes ago, Jim Starluck said:

Incidentally, you may want to make information on how the habitation space works a little easier to find; I wound up having to dig through the changelogs until I saw the post that said "see forum for details," and then had to page through the thread until I found posts around that date. Maybe edit something into the OP about it?

The USI-LS wiki on github has a wealth of information, including the habitation mechanic. It can be found here. Special thanks to all of the forum users who have been cleaning and updating it (and the UKS/MKS wiki, too).

@RoverDude I know you have a link to your github release page in the OP, but perhaps you may want to consider a small one-liner directing people to the wiki page for more info? Some people may not be used to looking for the github wiki tab. As an added bonus, your OP would always be "up to date" because the community can focus on updating the wiki. Just a thought.

Edited June 21, 2016 by Merkov
Tagged RoverDude properly. Learning occurred!