[1.12.x] USI Life Support

[ioresult]

Hello RoverDude,

There is a weird offset on the Nom-O-Matic 5000:

PART
{
    name = USILS_Greenhouse_Sm
    module = Part
    author = RoverDude 
    rescaleFactor = 1
    node_attach = 0,-.15,0,0,-1,0
    node_stack_bottom = 0,-.25,0,0,-1,0

see the two node_* definitions with the fractional negative offsets. It makes the part float above the parent part.

If I change both the -.15 and the -.25 to zero, it behaves exactly like the small cupola and the base sinks neatly into the parent part.

 

 

 

[Tarheel1999]

@RoverDude I have a question about the new habitation times.  Command Pods seem to give ~7 days of habitation time per crew member. This would seem to require two 1-kerbal command pods for one crew member for a trip to and back from Minmus.  Without a grace period, this would make the early career (before 2-kerbal pods are unlocked) really unpleasant.  I looked at the release notes for 5.0 but didn't see any mention of a grace period. I vaguely remember that before this update there was a 15 day grace period for supplies but I'm not sure if this is correct and/or applies to habitation.  Could you let me know what the grace period is, if any, for habitation and supplies? Thanks.

Edited October 14, 2016 by Tarheel1999

[RoverDude]

The idea is that to get past the mun you at least need a little bit more space.  Tho I could be talked into tweaking that a bit.

[Merkov]

20 minutes ago, Tarheel1999 said:

@RoverDude I have a question about the new habitation times.  Command Pods seem to give ~7 days of habitation time per crew member. This would seem to require two 1-kerbal command pods for one crew member for a trip to and back from Minmus.  Without a grace period, this would make the early career (before 2-kerbal pods are unlocked) really unpleasant.  I looked at the release notes for 5.0 but didn't see any mention of a grace period. I vaguely remember that before this update there was a 15 day grace period for supplies but I'm not sure if this is correct and/or applies to habitation.  Could you let me know what the grace period is, if any, for habitation and supplies? Thanks.

Looking at the config, the grace period is still 15 (6 hour) days. I haven't actually deliberately run a kerbal out of hab time in KSP 1.2 yet, but the system always used to be that the grace period is configurable, but applies to everything. That is, the grace period for supplies running out is always the same as the grace period for hab time running out.

@RoverDude, I noticed that when running just USI-LS, the default settings config seems to have no effect for running out of hab time. Was this always the case? I know that replacement parts/wear were always disabled on USI-LS-only installs (since you need MKS to re-stock them) but I thought hab timers still had consequences, by default.

[Tarheel1999]

Okay, I'll have to noodle over that.  For a sandbox save that is easily overcome, for a career save maybe not so much.  I'll have to play with it and see how that works out in practice.  Can you confirm what the supply grace period is?

[Merkov]

4 minutes ago, Tarheel1999 said:

Okay, I'll have to noodle over that.  For a sandbox save that is easily overcome, for a career save maybe not so much.  I'll have to play with it and see how that works out in practice.  Can you confirm what the supply grace period is?

By default, it is 324000 seconds, which works out to 90 hours, or 15 kerbal days. This can be configured in the config file (if you have MKS, use the one found in UmbraSpaceIndustries/MKS/USI-LS.cfg. If you are not using MKS, use the one found in UmbraSpaceIndustries/LifeSupport/Settings.cfg). I'm pretty sure the grace period is also one of the things that can be configured in the USI-LS settings window from the KSC screen. For that matter, I think you can adjust ANY of the settings from there... I always use the defaults, so I'm a LITTLE hazy on that...

[mcortez]

1 hour ago, RoverDude said:

The idea is that to get past the mun you at least need a little bit more space.  Tho I could be talked into tweaking that a bit.

I like the idea that getting to minmus should take a bit more effort than just strapping a bigger fuel tank to a vessel more suited to going to the Mun.

Heck we didn't go to earth's moon with a one seat capsule.  So I don't mind waiting until I've unlocked the hitchhiker or a 2 or 3 man capsule, or one of the smaller cupulas.

Just my two cents.

 

[Reiver]

Hmm. I was planning to use 1.2 to set up a shiny new martian colony.

Does the new (to me) habitation rules mess that up big time? Or are there ways to still create semi-permanent staffings?

[goldenpsp]

Just now, Reiver said:

Hmm. I was planning to use 1.2 to set up a shiny new martian colony.

Does the new (to me) habitation rules mess that up big time? Or are there ways to still create semi-permanent staffings?

It's not too hard to get some serious (20+ years) habitation times.

[Wazaa]

Hello! I'm using for the first time USI-LF ans after some hours of tests, I'm confuse about habitation times. Each time I decouple a part from my vessel, the habitation time increase. For the exemple: with the Kerbal X vessel, when I decouple the main booster, the 30 days habitation time increases at 60days. If I decouple the second booster, it increases at 90days. 

This is a bug? Or do I miss something? Maybe I didn't understood the wiki.

Edited October 14, 2016 by Wazaa
Grammar

[Jiraiyah]

@RoverDude Hi sir

I know that with all the things you have in your plate, this would be hard, but, considering that USI and MKS are very in depth mods, can you put time and effort in making in depth tutorials about how they work, how we can have a closed cycle of life support etc? thanks

[RoverDude]

There are already entire wikis dedicated to both mods.  If part of the wiki is confusing, etc. let us know, as they are community maintained.

[Domfluff]

Just now, Jiraiyah said:

I know that with all the things you have in your plate, this would be hard, but, considering that USI and MKS are very in depth mods, can you put time and effort in making in depth tutorials about how they work, how we can have a closed cycle of life support etc? thanks

The wiki (through github) are usually pretty good - this update was larger than most, so the wiki is more out of date than usual at the moment.

It's pretty common for MKS documentation to lag behind the state of the mod though, once you get up to speed with the basics, the tooltips in-game are sometimes the best way to work out anything.

Roverdude's twitch stream includes some career streams, and they can be useful to see things in action. There are also a few youtube lets plays focused on building MKS bases.

[Jiraiyah]

hmm will look into those videos, personally, I am not that much of wiki guy, those wiki pages always make me more confused

[RoverDude]

Sorry, but with all due respect, do you have any idea how long it takes to produce video tutorials?  Plus they are pretty much impossible to update - you have to redo them every release.  You're asking quite a bit for something done for free, when there is a perfectly good community wiki made available.

[Wazaa]

The wikis are very good made. But what's happening in game is different from what is explained in wikis. So I need clarifications. 

I launch in orbit the stock Kerbal X vessel: the hab time is 30days

Spoiler

I decouple the main booster, it is very close. The hab time is 60days

Spoiler

Now, it is more than 150m (share dsitance). hab time: 30days

Spoiler

It's repeating with the second booster

Spoiler

 

I understand that if there is a vessel whit habiation module at less than 150m, the hab time is "shared". 

The problem for me is, here, the boosters don't have habitation modules, so why they share 30days of hab time with the pod?

Another thing i remarked is the home time is resetting each time the hab time change. It don't count the time already spent.

 

What is/are the explaination?

This mod is very nice and i want to play with the hab/home time for gameplay, but this problem pertubes me.

Edited October 14, 2016 by Wazaa

[RoverDude]

Sorry, I simply can't see your screenshots.  If you are going to request support, please provide ones that are significantly more clear.

[ioresult]

28 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

Sorry, I simply can't see your screenshots.  If you are going to request support, please provide ones that are significantly more clear.

The images are rescaled to fit your screen, but if you click through to the sharing website, you can see the picture in full resolution. Problem seems that the hab timer depends on the proximity to an empty booster even if that booster doesn't have any habitable space.

[Domfluff]

13 hours ago, RoverDude said:

The idea is that to get past the mun you at least need a little bit more space.  Tho I could be talked into tweaking that a bit.

I'm very happy with the reduced hab time you get now - if you wanted to tweak this, I think I'd personally rather you moved one of the mini cupola's down in the tech tree (or some other simple hab solution, like a BEAM-like mini inflatable), rather than changing the core value.

Since CTT hasn't been updated, I'm waiting for that to get a really good feel of the new parts in context.

[RoverDude]

46 minutes ago, ioresult said:

The images are rescaled to fit your screen, but if you click through to the sharing website, you can see the picture in full resolution. Problem seems that the hab timer depends on the proximity to an empty booster even if that booster doesn't have any habitable space.

It has nothing to do with the booster.  On your home world, hab is a constant 30 days.  Once you get past a certain point, it kicks in and calculates the real values for both timers (short term and long term).

43 minutes ago, Domfluff said:

I'm very happy with the reduced hab time you get now - if you wanted to tweak this, I think I'd personally rather you moved one of the mini cupola's down in the tech tree (or some other simple hab solution, like a BEAM-like mini inflatable), rather than changing the core value.

Since CTT hasn't been updated, I'm waiting for that to get a really good feel of the new parts in context.

I was thinking more in terms of adding a configurable flat rate similar to the grace period for supplies.

[mitko]

Or you could use the mk1 crew cabin as an earlier, less capable version of the Hitchhiker hab.

[Totallyafk]

so i'm trying out this mod for the first time and i can't get it to work, I'm on ksp 1.2 on osx running USI life support, Kerbal Enginner and Kerbal alarm clock. I tried running a wiki example on sandbox and i can't seem to get the greenhouses or habitation to work. Kerbals seem to run through stored supplies then they die, activating the greenhouse does not seem to do anything. Habitation always says it's indefinite but then it runs out anyway. here is an imgur album showing what i'm seeing http://imgur.com/a/aNkEk

[RoverDude]

There were some significant balance changes with 1.2.  Did your Kerbals die because the greenhouse could not keep up or because you ran out of fertilizer?

i.e. if you see your life support timer either static or going up, that's good.  If it is going down and you still have fertilizer, then that is bad.

[Wazaa]

1 hour ago, RoverDude said:

It has nothing to do with the booster.  On your home world, hab is a constant 30 days.  Once you get past a certain point, it kicks in and calculates the real values for both timers (short term and long term).

I made other tests and it seems that any part shared 30days of hab time to the close vessels.

[Merkov]

4 minutes ago, Totallyafk said:

so i'm trying out this mod for the first time and i can't get it to work, I'm on ksp 1.2 on osx running USI life support, Kerbal Enginner and Kerbal alarm clock. I tried running a wiki example on sandbox and i can't seem to get the greenhouses or habitation to work. Kerbals seem to run through stored supplies then they die, activating the greenhouse does not seem to do anything. Habitation always says it's indefinite but then it runs out anyway. here is an imgur album showing what i'm seeing http://imgur.com/a/aNkEk

Unless I'm reading the configs wrong, I think your greenhouse couldn't keep up with your supplies usage. The NomOMatic 5000 has a supplie output ratio of 0.000132, which I believe means that at 0% wear (which you will be at with your mods) the NomOMatic will only put out 0.000132 supplies per second, which works out to 2.8512 supplies per 6 hour kerbal day. Kerbals consume 10.2 hours. Unless you had some recyclers on there, that looks like it will be your problem. By my count, your kerbal ran out of supplies after 11 days.

Habitation penalties should be disabled by default unless you have MKS installed (which you didn't mention having) so that's probably the reason for the "indefinite" tag.

The wiki is only accurate to the last version of USI-LS. Everything since KSP 1.2 is pretty much new. Assume the wiki is out of date, and get info from the mod's configs itself for now.