[1.12.x] USI Life Support

[strudo76]

7 minutes ago, Mihara said:

• Why is it designed so that kerbals can refuse to control their capsule during reentry, due to being homesick?  Because that's what killed them, before the loss of power they had 30+ days of habitation remaining.
• What's the point of the 15 day grace period on supplies, then?

I just went to the settings and set the homework altitude to 75000m. I assume that 5000m should be enough time to orient the pod.

Ummm, I'm also assuming that's what that setting does, as I've not tested it. I'll find out one way or another in 4 Kerbin days. If she untourists at 75000, it works as I think it does, if not, I'll be descending under probe control.

[danielboro]

hub is a big problem
i never run out of supplays but alwis at the edge of hub time

i use smart parts and kos and my epod (4 kerbal, PPD, 2 dock ports,4 chut +2 drug,probe core whit embedded kos,heat shild) has a long successful minmus and mun returns

but i use a tug to get the epod to minmus orbit from ther it has the dV to get back directly or v mun fly by

[Mihara]

10 minutes ago, strudo76 said:

Ummm, I'm also assuming that's what that setting does, as I've not tested it.

That's what it does, or at least should. I.e. if we're below this altitude over our homeworld, we're "on Kerbin" in which case most of the checks get ignored, if I'm reading the source right.

I would love to see some balancing guidelines, to be honest. I want to know the reasoning why exactly is it intended to work this way, so I can correctly patch the life support into all the parts floating around which don't come with it.

[RoverDude]

1 hour ago, Mihara said:

• Why is it designed so that kerbals can refuse to control their capsule during reentry, due to being homesick?  Because that's what killed them, before the loss of power they had 30+ days of habitation remaining.
• What's the point of the 15 day grace period on supplies, then?

For point one - this is easily solved by having a properly balanced craft, and by pre-deploying chutes with pressure triggers set.  

For point two - because I don't add supplies to any craft by default and without it your Kerbals would be dead before they hit orbit.

1 hour ago, Mihara said:

would love to see some balancing guidelines, to be honest. I want to know the reasoning why exactly is it intended to work this way, so I can correctly patch the life support into all the parts floating around which don't come with it.

Balance guidelines I have, even with a video explaining them (though it covers mostly MKS, USI-LS is secondary).  Just need to hunt them down.  But it's going to show you the formulas to make parts that are in line with the mod, MKS, etc. - but not the reasoning as that's all design.

[Mihara]

Just now, RoverDude said:

For point one - this is easily solved by having a properly balanced craft, and by pre-deploying chutes with pressure triggers set.  

For point two - because I don't add supplies to any craft by default and without it your Kerbals would be dead before they hit orbit.

For point one, I'm not criticising, I'm asking a question: Why is this possible, what is the internal logic, what exactly habitation is meant to model? Because, yes, I can solve this issue in numerous ways, but it won't make the event that happened make sense -- the crew could turn the craft, but didn't, because they were too homesick, and then they stopped being homesick seconds before it was too late to turn the craft. I would love to see some life support balancing guidelines. The existing documentation is both out of date -- it lists the default habitation as a "month" rather than the 7 days it actually is -- and not clear on what means what. Life support values offered by various mods are all over the place too.

For point two -- so why are the default grace periods are different for habitation and supplies, then, with habitation being lower than supplies?

[RoverDude]

Simple answer - because it is how I designed it.  We will agree to disagree whether it makes sense or not.

Also.  Hab has no grace period, as already noted.  The grace period only exists for Supplies.

[Mihara]

2 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

Simple answer - because it is how I designed it.  We will agree to disagree whether it makes sense or not.

Sure, ok.

Will I have to ask for balancing guidelines a third time or will you agree that you will never explain what sort of balance you wanted to achieve and why?

[RoverDude]

3 minutes ago, Mihara said:

Sure, ok.

Will I have to ask for balancing guidelines a third time or will you agree that you will never explain what sort of balance you wanted to achieve and why?

Ya know, I had said in a post previously that I was going to re-post the spreadsheet and video.  But your attitude just moved that task down to the bottom of my list.  

Peace out.

[voicey99]

24 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

Ya know, I had said in a post previously that I was going to re-post the spreadsheet and video.  But your attitude just moved that task down to the bottom of my list.  

Peace out.

Not even needed. The video is only a quick google away and even comes with a link to the spreadsheet (if only they had bothered).

[DStaal]

The spreadsheet and video are actually on the wiki - albeit not from the an easy-to-find page.  (Understandable - the page itself needs updating.)  It's here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0oqO3xbswk

As for what habitation models: It's the ability to stay sane while cooped up in a tiny metal box far from any kind of escape.  The fact that home is just outside your window is useless if you can't open that window - 'cabin fever' is about being in close confines, especially with other people, and is known to affect people in far more hospitable circumstances than a spaceship.  (Hence the common term - from being locked up in a cabin through the winter.)

[KerbMav]

3 hours ago, Mihara said:

I decouple everything below the heatshield, and that's exactly the moment the crew refuses to work. Due to homesickness. Literally when they can't possibly go anywhere but home, anymore. I'm not sure if that's the hab sucking out the remaining batteries in seconds, or the number of parts changing triggering a recomputation, but the pod with the hitchhiker can (because I tried to be optimal and packed six kerbals in six seats, four of them being the hitchhiker) has no one at the controls and is flying through the air sideways.

The vehicle has remote control as a matter of policy, but because there's still no batteries, and because I just decoupled the solar panels, I can't turn them heatshield first. They return to duty at 25km altitude, moments before the vehicle burns up in the atmosphere.

I obviously can just turn up the base habitation multiplier, but -- why did you balance it this way, and not some other way?

P.S. Possibly, homesickness should also have a grace period the way supplies do, so that given an unprepared pod, by default, a kerbal would be disabled by lack of supplies and homesickness simultaneously...

Recap for understanding: Kerbals have two Hab values: the Total of being away depending on the most luxurious craft they have boarded on this tour of dury and the Current depending on the craft they are in right now.

The Current changes when the craft's Hab value is recalculated after un/docking from/to anything, no?

Should the Current of the Kerbin lander (capsule) not be sufficient for at least a day?

[DStaal]

10 minutes ago, KerbMav said:

Recap for understanding: Kerbals have two Hab values: the Total of being away depending on the most luxurious craft they have boarded on this tour of dury and the Current depending on the craft they are in right now.

The Current changes when the craft's Hab value is recalculated after un/docking from/to anything, no?

Should the Current of the Kerbin lander (capsule) not be sufficient for at least a day?

Unless of course they've already been stuck in the lander for a week on the way back from Minmus...

[Terwin]

9 minutes ago, KerbMav said:

Recap for understanding: Kerbals have two Hab values: the Total of being away depending on the most luxurious craft they have boarded on this tour of dury and the Current depending on the craft they are in right now.

The Current changes when the craft's Hab value is recalculated after un/docking from/to anything, no?

Should the Current of the Kerbin lander (capsule) not be sufficient for at least a day?

If you have a kerbal that is about to go stir-crazy, and then you cut their hab-space in half, why would that not push them over the edge.

If you want to re-set the 'current' you need to actually let them leave the vessel(I think that even a short space walk is enough).

[techgamer17]

This is for the MKS Kolonization Mod

 

Does anyone know of a way to disable the need for Material kits/Specialized parts when deploying habitation modules and workshops ect, as 8000 material kits  for one module is a complete joke. I remember when it wasn't required so how do I disable this without degrading the mod version? Thanks.

 

Also while im here does anyone know of a tutorial on YT or a website about setting up your first base and what modules to take on your first run as the MKS wiki doesn't really outline this in enough detail. 

Edited July 6, 2017 by techgamer17

[dboi88]

7 minutes ago, techgamer17 said:

This is for the MKS Kolonization Mod

 

Does anyone know of a way to disable the need for Material kits/Specialized parts when deploying habitation modules and workshops ect, as 8000 material kits  for one module is a complete joke. I remember when it wasn't required so how do I disable this without degrading the mod version? Thanks.

 

Also while im here does anyone know of a tutorial on YT or a website about setting up your first base and what modules to take on your first run as the MKS wiki doesn't really outline this in enough detail. 

You can edit the cfg, however, they are carefully balanced and to call the need for them 'a complete joke' is extremely rude. There are countless posts made by both Roverdude, me and others that explain in detail why these are required. If you want to screw up the balance of your own game go ahead but don't complain here when things go wrong.

[strudo76]

23 minutes ago, techgamer17 said:

Also while im here does anyone know of a tutorial on YT or a website about setting up your first base and what modules to take on your first run as the MKS wiki doesn't really outline this in enough detail. 

This YouTube series is good and aimed at using MKS. Can't say specifically which episode he transports the base modules though. 

[danielboro]

did dis doubling of ship happen to any one else?

sorry. my bad (edit in)
im still in KSP 1.2.2

USI ls 0.5.24 - 2017.03.17

MKS 0.50.18 - 2017.03.17 (just in case)

logs

https://yadi.sk/d/hB6I9Yn-3Kp8mj

https://yadi.sk/d/BxZ5QORo3Kp8sa

Edited July 6, 2017 by danielboro

[goldenpsp]

11 minutes ago, danielboro said:

did dis doubling of ship happen to any one else?

logs

https://yadi.sk/d/hB6I9Yn-3Kp8mj

https://yadi.sk/d/BxZ5QORo3Kp8sa

some additional information might help. Like mod version.

 

[danielboro]

sorry. my bad
im still in KSP 1.2.2

USI ls 0.5.24 - 2017.03.17

MKS 0.50.18 - 2017.03.17 (just in case)

[KerbMav]

2 hours ago, Terwin said:

If you have a kerbal that is about to go stir-crazy, and then you cut their hab-space in half, why would that not push them over the edge.

If you want to re-set the 'current' you need to actually let them leave the vessel(I think that even a short space walk is enough).

I just picked up on the discussion - seems I should set up a test save and magic some stations into orbit. In my actual game it looked like that ever un/docking reset the current timer, but it would not be the first thing I misinterpreted this season ...

[DStaal]

23 minutes ago, KerbMav said:

I just picked up on the discussion - seems I should set up a test save and magic some stations into orbit. In my actual game it looked like that ever un/docking reset the current timer, but it would not be the first thing I misinterpreted this season ...

I suspect it can get a bit finicky on the exact conditions around docking/undocking, as which ship you're flying can change as you dock/undock.

This particular case was more of a staging issue - they staged away some habitation, so their current ship lost hab.

[KerbMav]

6 minutes ago, DStaal said:

I suspect it can get a bit finicky on the exact conditions around docking/undocking, as which ship you're flying can change as you dock/undock.

This particular case was more of a staging issue - they staged away some habitation, so their current ship lost hab.

Some kind of failsafe would be nice to have then - not a grace period, but maybe that Hab cannot drop below say 30 minutes for any changes happening to the ship?

[techgamer17]

Why is the RT-500 Recycling module reading  "In-active" when I click on it?

[DStaal]

1 hour ago, techgamer17 said:

Why is the RT-500 Recycling module reading  "In-active" when I click on it?

Have you activated it?

It takes EC to run, so it only runs if you've turned it on, by clicking the 'Life Support' button.

[invultri]

To prevent kerbals from dying while re-entering on kerbin I -ALWAYS- do the following to my return pods (ea. design)

1) Automated control (add extra sas if required)

2) Batteries (You want power on the way down, hab does not take that much to keep going as opposed to recyclers)

3) Aerodynamic stability (use a part that causes a lot of drag on top of the ship like the 2.5 flat adapter, requires fairings on the way out)

4) Parachutes (usually not a good thing to forget)

5) Test if the above actually works

Example craft with a 10crew re-entry pod (1.2.2, craft itself is for kerbin-mun-minmus incl landings tourist trips, probe core is hidden below the docking port, docking port is for refuelling at minmus in case of me messing things up)