[1.12.x] USI Life Support

[RoverDude]

hmmm... well in this case it was a tourist in the vessel.  I'll need to see if that's an issue or not - did you previously come within 2km of the ship?

[Kobymaru]

Hi, on the latest version, "Start Life Support" doesn't actually do anything but make the supplies time readout wrong.

Observe the Supply left time according to USI on the left, and according to Alternate Ressource Panel on the right.

Turned off: 277 days, according to USI tab, and according to Alternate Ressource panel

Spoiler

 

Turned on:  2y 75 days according to USI tab, and 277 days according to Alternate Ressource panel

Spoiler

Also, the USI display goes down multiple seconds per second. This might be related to the issue that people report supplies going down, although the time is going up.

[RoverDude]

hmmm.. I will take a look.  Had no evening plans anyway

[goldenpsp]

I've had an interesting development.  I only had this issue come up with the latest update to USI-LS/MKS.

I did have a game in progress, and this isn't a complaint, just a curiousity.  I have a Mun mission that started prior to the HAB changes, so the craft was not setup very well for a long term mission.

The hab time was 30days and I was currently 8 days into the mission.  It properly showed that I had 22 days left on the hab.  Then I updated the mods.  When I reloaded my game and went to the ship, the crew became tourists and the hab timer showed -50d.  They haven't even been on the Mun that long.

I'm just curious to figure out what would have caused this?  I checked the ship in the VAB and it still shows it should be good for 30 days hab time.

[RoverDude]

A bug I need to sort

[goldenpsp]

5 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

A bug I need to sort

Ok,  I'm guessing it is a bug primarily for ships that were pre-existing?  Or is it something that will just rear its head randomly?

I started thinking about 2 things that I realized I don't know the answer to.

If grouchiness is enabled, hence we get tourists, what is the way, if any, to counteract this for a Hab timer.  I know if they run out of food, I can slap a food container onto the ship via KIS and they will revert. Do I need to slap on some habitation?

Also, similar question for EVA timers.  If a Kerbal becomes a tourist while on EVA are you kinda screwed?  Or can they still be controlled until they re-enter a ship?  The only timer I've run into for EVA so far is a rescue contract which I haven't gotten to the kerbals location yet so I'm trying to figure out what sort of craft I need to send in this case.

[RoverDude]

EVA they can be recontrolled till they get in.  If they are pent up and go nuts, you either need to increase hab or (ultimately) figure out a creative way to get them home.  

[Kowgan]

Alright, so I noticed you did manage to reproduce the reset USI-LS UI issue in one of your streams! http://www.twitch.tv/roverdude/v/38845824

At the beginning (1 min), you check the USI-LS window at the KSC. It shows you currently have a Mun base with Seanrey and Hudhat Kerman. The previous stream showed you taking those two kerbals there.
At 1h02m, you're building a new vessel, and you open the USI-LS window in the VAB. Bill and Frocott Kerman are in that new vessel.
At 1h28m, while orbiting the Mun, you check the USI-LS window. There! Only Bill and Frocott are showing up on the list! The Seanrey and Hudhat's vessel is gone! This is what's been happening to me!

Yes, I'm that desperate for a fix.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Kowgan
grammar

[gunt3rgam3r]

Nope this was a new rescue contract so this was the first time the pod and kerbal had ever been loaded.  The kerbal became a tourist the moment he was loaded.  I went up to go get him with a second vessel...this time with some portable supplies.  The second time when we approached and the ship was loaded he reverted to scientist, before I could use the supplies.

I have another active contract to rescue a second kerbal on another ship.  I will try it again and see what happens.

[RoverDude]

I'll take a look

Note that at the moment, I am up to my armpits in this code anyway so now is a good time to fiddle with this.

[RoverDude]

0.3.8 - 2016.02.03
------------------
Performance update, general bug fixing
 

[GokouZWAR]

I'm not sure but it appears your 'hardcore' defaults are still enabled in 3.7. I still see habitation and i also have orange suit kerbals going back to the KSC...are they supposed to do that? <edit> i just did a check and its actually version 3.5....so nvm. 

Also, this wandering back to the KSC is a real awesome exploit. If you want to get your kerbals home for free, just starve them out on purpose. I take supply containers and fill them up then undock them in a nearby orbit. When all the kerbals go home, i reconnect them to the station. I just sent an entire crew of 13 kerbals home for free. Seems to me if they're going to get fed up and go home, shouldn't it be based on the habitation and not the available supplies? I just had bob run back home from his ship around the moon (bob is an orange suit...) and he was -45 days on supplies but still had over 100 days on habitation.

Edited February 4, 2016 by GokouZWAR

[GokouZWAR]

I will add this just because, I think the whole "wander back to the KSC" thing is really kinda dumb. I really like the old method of just having them become tourists and not work. Its a much bigger penalty then sending them home by way of teleportation and leaving their vehicle abandoned. I really don't care about unoccupied vehicles sometimes and they can be easily terminated if no one is in them to lose. It really dumbs down the mod IMO and doesn't really add value but maybe I'm missing something as to why it was added. Just my 2 cents. They never seem to mean much here tho.

[monsfarrar]

9 hours ago, goldenpsp said:

The hab time was 30days and I was currently 8 days into the mission.  It properly showed that I had 22 days left on the hab.  Then I updated the mods.  When I reloaded my game and went to the ship, the crew became tourists and the hab timer showed -50d.  They haven't even been on the Mun that long.

 

I ran into something similar. I foolishly didn't think about possible consequences and updated with a manned craft in flight. KSP autosaved right before beginning decent to the Mun and loading the save form there, after updating, the craft now has -35 days of habitability when it's not been in flight for even half a day.

[RoverDude]

2 cents matter a lot, when they are conveyed in a polite and constructive way.  When pushed in a not so nice way, they get ignored.

[mr.smiley]

It does seem a bit easy if you can have the kerbals warp back to KSC for free, unless you include the time. Perhaps there should be a reputation and financial cost associated with it, to represent the fact that some other space program was contracted to rescue your kerbals.

And if you are doing something like that, then you could also include the option to initiate the rescue contract yourself, before they have run out of supplies or hab or whatever triggers them the wander off. Under that situation the costs to the player could be less because it isn't an emergency or anything. It's just business.

[RoverDude]

On a more productive and positive note, if I can get confirmations, etc. on how 0.3.8 is working that would be good.  Hopefully the last of the bees have been shaken out.

[goldenpsp]

1 hour ago, GokouZWAR said:

I will add this just because, I think the whole "wander back to the KSC" thing is really kinda dumb. I really like the old method of just having them become tourists and not work. Its a much bigger penalty then sending them home by way of teleportation and leaving their vehicle abandoned. I really don't care about unoccupied vehicles sometimes and they can be easily terminated if no one is in them to lose. It really dumbs down the mod IMO and doesn't really add value but maybe I'm missing something as to why it was added. Just my 2 cents. They never seem to mean much here tho.

As has been stated since the beginning of this mod, it's all configurable.  You have all kinds of options depending on how you want your penalties to be, such as:

//  0 = No Effect (The feature is effectively turned off
//  1 = Grouchy (they become a Tourist until rescued)
//  2 = Mutinous (A tourist, but destroys a part of a nearby vessel...)
//  3 = Instantly 'wander' back to the KSC - don't ask us how!
//  4 = M.I.A. (will eventually respawn)
//  5 = K.I.A.

So while you might now like how the mod is set out of the box, you can actually change it to your liking (amazing I know).

24 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

On a more productive and positive note, if I can get confirmations, etc. on how 0.3.8 is working that would be good.  Hopefully the last of the bees have been shaken out.

I haven't had a lot of playtime.  I did notice my issue above that you mentioned was a bug (-50days on habitation into an 8 day mission when I had 30 days of habitation to start) is still there.  I don't know if it would have rectified itself or is permanently broken without a save hack.

[RoverDude]

12 minutes ago, goldenpsp said:

I haven't had a lot of playtime.  I did notice my issue above that you mentioned was a bug (-50days on habitation into an 8 day mission when I had 30 days of habitation to start) is still there.  I don't know if it would have rectified itself or is permanently broken without a save hack.

See if (when you have time) you can repro it with a new craft

[goldenpsp]

2 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

See if (when you have time) you can repro it with a new craft

I'll check.  The weird thing is, and unfortunately I cannot remember exactly which update, it had been fine and after an update it had broken.

In between the updates nothing had changed.  i hadn't really "played" in that I had logged in, checked the ship and then quit the game, updated USI-LS, went back in and the issue occurred.

[GokouZWAR]

 

25 minutes ago, goldenpsp said:

As has been stated since the beginning of this mod, it's all configurable.  You have all kinds of options depending on how you want your penalties to be, such as:

//  0 = No Effect (The feature is effectively turned off
//  1 = Grouchy (they become a Tourist until rescued)
//  2 = Mutinous (A tourist, but destroys a part of a nearby vessel...)
//  3 = Instantly 'wander' back to the KSC - don't ask us how!
//  4 = M.I.A. (will eventually respawn)
//  5 = K.I.A.

So while you might now like how the mod is set out of the box, you can actually change it to your liking (amazing I know).

yeah i think we figured out that the default config for 2 was what was causing my station to rip apart and i grabbed the hotfix that was pushed out (33.3), we fixed that but none of the kerbals are happy enough to start working still in 3.8, even after being thrown back into a new ship. At least they don't tear the place up  

[RoverDude]

I'll do some experimentation here.

[goldenpsp]

Ok well I haven't been able to recreate the issue, but in testing I have found the following.

I had my broken ship full of tourists on the mun.  I launched the identical vessel with an engineer and landed it right next to the other one on the mun.  I connected the two via KAS pipes.

When I did this my hab timer on the broken ship went green and the two kerbals immediately went from tourists back into service.  i then disconnected the ships and they stayed green.

I did various test going back to the KSC, reloading the game and so far all is good.

[RoverDude]

Good - so it looks like the way to get your tourists back from hab problems is to just link up with more hab space.

[goldenpsp]

1 minute ago, RoverDude said:

Good - so it looks like the way to get your tourists back from hab problems is to just link up with more hab space.

not only did i get my tourists back, but their original craft got its hab time back even after I disconnected the two ships.