[1.12.x] USI Life Support

[goldenpsp]

3 minutes ago, Sir_Robert said:

This is my first mission away from Kerbin. I don't have a base yet. It was supposed to be apollo style touch down and go home

Man, I am going to have to completely rethink this from the ground up aren't I? Maybe I'll delay the whole mission and send some probes ahead to setup a habitat on Ike

Changing vessels resets Hab timers as well.  I would highly recommend a Minmus dry run (since minmus takes a tiny bit longer than the Mun) so you can see the effects of Habitation timers and changing ships etc.

 

And yes you may want to plan at least a small base so they can wait out their time until the return window, depending on how long that may be.

Edited February 15, 2016 by goldenpsp

[Sir_Robert]

Just now, goldenpsp said:

Changing vessels resets Hab timers as well.  I would highly recommend a Minmus dry run (since minmus takes a tiny bit longer than the Mun) so you can see the effects of Habitation timers and changing ships etc.

I did notice something like that with my EVAing kerbals. Though I'd assume there's more than just getting a breath of fresh air outside.

There's no thorough documentation anywhere about habitation is there?

[Gribbleshnibit8]

I was wondering about the consumption change, and resorted to using google to find the relevant information in the thread. Can we please get some updates on how things work in the main post at least? Better if there was a wiki or something for the LS parts, now that they're more complex.

[mcortez]

2 minutes ago, Gribbleshnibit8 said:

I was wondering about the consumption change, and resorted to using google to find the relevant information in the thread. Can we please get some updates on how things work in the main post at least? Better if there was a wiki or something for the LS parts, now that they're more complex.

Here's the WIKI for all things USI :  https://github.com/BobPalmer/MKS/wiki

Volunteers are still trying to get things updated with all of the changes in the last month or so, so the wiki still has some out of date things.  More volunteers updating the WIKI are always appreciated.

[mikegarrison]

I installed MKS at the same time as LS, and so I guess that turned habitation on by default?

As far as I can tell, the habitation timer is reset just by going EVA. I built a ship and added a bunch of hab space in order to extend that timer, then found out it was unimportant if I just gave them a few spacewalks.

So you have this master list (which is nice) of your kerbals supply status and hab timer status. But it says nothing about "wear", which you seem to have to find by left-clicking on the individual parts. And there is very little clue in terms of hints about what to do regarding the wear. The wiki said something about engineers causing less wear than pilots, but I saw the most wear in a module inhabited only by an engineer. Maybe because it was a smaller module (2-person as opposed to a 6-person module the pilot was hanging out in)?

[RoverDude]

12 hours ago, Sir_Robert said:

This is my first mission away from Kerbin. I don't have a base yet. It was supposed to be apollo style touch down and go home

Man, I am going to have to completely rethink this from the ground up aren't I? Maybe I'll delay the whole mission and send some probes ahead to setup a habitat on Ike

That would be the system working as designed   Think about how we'd do an actual mission to Mars, etc.

2 hours ago, Gribbleshnibit8 said:

I was wondering about the consumption change, and resorted to using google to find the relevant information in the thread. Can we please get some updates on how things work in the main post at least? Better if there was a wiki or something for the LS parts, now that they're more complex.

Yep, slowly working on it

[Gribbleshnibit8]

3 hours ago, mcortez said:

Here's the WIKI for all things USI :  https://github.com/BobPalmer/MKS/wiki

Volunteers are still trying to get things updated with all of the changes in the last month or so, so the wiki still has some out of date things.  More volunteers updating the WIKI are always appreciated.

1 hour ago, RoverDude said:

Yep, slowly working on it

Yes, I've read that wiki, it seems to assume that I'm using MKS and doesn't cover whatever the new changes have been made to non-MKS parts, hence the question.

I think the biggest help would be a quick update to the OP for some of the new stuff. If I were coming in as a new user, (even now I've got several of these) I think these would be some of the most helpful questions to have answered:

1. How much life support do I need per day? (wiki, 16.2 units per Kerbal per day. Why not a more round number that's easier to eyeball guess?)
2. What is habitation?
   • How does habitation affect my vessel? (Is it the default, what makes it turn on, how do I turn it on myself)
   • How do I know how much I need, or how much a part has? (I believe this is visible in the LS window, but maybe make the module visible in the module list with the value?)
   • What happens if I don't have enough? (I assume this is the 'homesick' value in the config, and by default nothing happens)
3. How do recyclers work?
   • What parts recycle? (Science lab is the only stock part set up for this iirc)
   • How does recycling affect my mission longevity? (is having a recycler on board reflected in the LS window in the editor?)
4. What is wear? (is it on by default, or only with MKS? Can it be turned on without MKS?)
   • How quickly do things wear out?
   • What happens when parts wear out?
   • Is it possible to resupply repair parts? (Resource says non-tweakable and non-visible so I guess that's a no?)

      

On a side note, I noticed the other day that putting a Nom-o-matic on my vessel and stocking up on loads and loads of fertilizer still showed the time to Supplies run out as if I wasn't making more. Is this intended or can that window calculate the new rate? If it cannot, what's the easiest conversion of fertilizer per Kerbal to extended mission days?

Also, I read somewhere that MKS comes with its own version of the config, and that USILS takes the most pessimistic settings. If I want to override that, would it be enough to make a single MM config that modifies the settings for my own changes to take effect?

[antilochus]

Hey, I installed USI-LS by mistake while installing some of RoverDude's other stuff (going with a simpler mod loadout where I can launch and not worry about LS) and unfortunately I now have a few manned stations that have now been tourist-ified.

Can anyone give me instructions on how to uninstall the mod with an existing save? When I just remove the dll/configs, it breaks the Tracking Station.

[Kowgan]

@antilochus I guess your kerbals should be normalized once you remove the mod; But in case it doesn't...

Backup your save file;
Open Kerbal Space Program\GameData\UmbraSpaceIndustries\LifeSupport\Settings.cfg on a notepad;
Change NoSupplyEffect, NoSupplyEffectVets, EVAEffect, EVAEffectVets, NoHomeEffect and NoHomeEffectVets' values to 0;
Launch the game and your save, and check if everything's normalized;
Remove the mod.

Edited February 16, 2016 by Kowgan

[antilochus]

2 hours ago, Kowgan said:

@antilochus I guess your kerbals should be normalized once you remove the mod; But in case it doesn't...

Backup your save file;
Open Kerbal Space Program\GameData\UmbraSpaceIndustries\LifeSupport\Settings.cfg on a notepad;
Change NoSupplyEffect, NoSupplyEffectVets, EVAEffect, EVAEffectVets, NoHomeEffect and NoHomeEffectVets' values to 0;
Launch the game and your save, and check if everything's normalized;
Remove the mod.

Thanks. I think I got it to work by removing LifeSupportScenario details, editing back the type = Tourist (etc.) and then deleting the dll (only the dll). No issues when I did that.

[Sir_Robert]

11 hours ago, RoverDude said:

That would be the system working as designed   Think about how we'd do an actual mission to Mars, etc.

And I love it. Just took some time to get used to it.

My finalized rocket has just made it to orbit, and is now awaiting refuelling. 217 tons on the launchpad, 53 tons empty in orbit. Window is 30 days away. I can't wait

[bertibott]

hi,

 

sorry if this has been asked before but after reading the github repo and not really finding an answer to my question i thought this might be the place to go...

What exactly does habitation mean? And how does it work?

I am curretnly designing a manned flyby mission to Eve and I am a bit confused. I am in the VAB and when I open the LS window it shows three numbers fo my vessel: Supplies, Batteries, Habitation. The first two are rather straight forward but I can't really get my head around hte last one. For the purpose of this mission just strapping on a couple of hitchhikers will probably do the trick but I am confused as to how I would ever get a permanent station working. Is there a point a where a given vessel would become permanently habitable?

 

Can anyone explain this to me? Or direct me to where it is explained.

[Andem]

2 minutes ago, bertibott said:

hi,

 

sorry if this has been asked before but after reading the github repo and not really finding an answer to my question i thought this might be the place to go...

What exactly does habitation mean? And how does it work?

I am curretnly designing a manned flyby mission to Eve and I am a bit confused. I am in the VAB and when I open the LS window it shows three numbers fo my vessel: Supplies, Batteries, Habitation. The first two are rather straight forward but I can't really get my head around hte last one. For the purpose of this mission just strapping on a couple of hitchhikers will probably do the trick but I am confused as to how I would ever get a permanent station working. Is there a point a where a given vessel would become permanently habitable?

 

Can anyone explain this to me? Or direct me to where it is explained.

It basically means how long your kerbals will put up with being in a tiny capsule.

[lancejammer]

43 minutes ago, gamerscircle said:

I have the extreme basics of an infrastructure online and I thought the next step would be the USI/Extraplanetary Launchpads phase?  This being the phase where I can use the "stakes" to bring in the structures/craft that is going to integrate and allow for further production until the "base" construction starts.

What is the recommended resources that I should setup drill sites for to support the Extraplanetary Launchpads on the Mun?  I think that I would like to get the logistics and infrastructure in place before 'habitation' starts. 

Thank you for your time and sorry about the "Text Wall above".

Your question may be better suited for the MKS thread, but I'm not here to split hairs

The main issue I want to flag for you is that you will need actual Kerbals onsite in order to begin producing the materials necessary to build Material Packs.  In fact, you'll need Kerbals to produce the refined goods (Chemicals, Polymers, Metal) as well.  And you'll also need actual Kerbals onsite in order to build something using EPL and stakes. Therefore, it may not be in your best interest to skip life support now, only to add it in later once you have your "infrastructure" set up.  I'd imagine that you'll be really disappointed to see all of your Kerbals suddenly die off (er, get grouchy and quit) in your massive Mun-based factory just because you're missing a few key pieces of the life support cycle process

But hey, it's KSP, so you do you!  To answer your question, you're going to need to be able to drill up Raw Materials (water, substrate, minerals, the other one), as well as Exotic Minerals and Rare Metals, and have a good power source in place.  Then you'll need Kerbals onsite to turn that stuff into Material Packs and Specialized Parts.  I think that's the bare minimum you'll need to have a functioning EPL base.  Again, I recommend checking out the MKS thread for more information.

[gamerscircle]

22 minutes ago, lancejammer said:

Your question may be better suited for the MKS thread, but I'm not here to split hairs

The main issue I want to flag for you is that you will need actual Kerbals onsite in order to begin producing the materials necessary to build Material Packs.  In fact, you'll need Kerbals to produce the refined goods (Chemicals, Polymers, Metal) as well.  And you'll also need actual Kerbals onsite in order to build something using EPL and stakes. Therefore, it may not be in your best interest to skip life support now, only to add it in later once you have your "infrastructure" set up.  I'd imagine that you'll be really disappointed to see all of your Kerbals suddenly die off (er, get grouchy and quit) in your massive Mun-based factory just because you're missing a few key pieces of the life support cycle process

But hey, it's KSP, so you do you!  To answer your question, you're going to need to be able to drill up Raw Materials (water, substrate, minerals, the other one), as well as Exotic Minerals and Rare Metals, and have a good power source in place.  Then you'll need Kerbals onsite to turn that stuff into Material Packs and Specialized Parts.  I think that's the bare minimum you'll need to have a functioning EPL base.  Again, I recommend checking out the MKS thread for more information.

I didn't know there was a separate forum for the MKS  and I should have stated that I do have Kerbals in the Processor', PDU' etc.  I guess, the next part will be to locate the deposits that I can and establish the logistics.

As for life support, I don't understand how it can impact me now since I haven't installed it?  Is there an invisible timer started somewhere?

[I JUST POSTED THIS IN THE CORRECT FORUM, So... how do I delete my own post?]

Edited February 16, 2016 by gamerscircle

[Kobymaru]

2 hours ago, gamerscircle said:

[I JUST POSTED THIS IN THE CORRECT FORUM, So... how do I delete my own post?]

You don't. Please don't create holes in history

Edited February 16, 2016 by Kobymaru

[meuqsaco]

One of my kerbals became a tourist, since he spent more than 15 days without food. No problem. I sent a rescue mission and supplied his vessel with food, but he kept as a tourist. I noticed there is another kind of resource called habitation which is 0 in my case. What is this and how do I give it to my Kerbal? My initial simple mission is now hell...

[RoverDude]

How long was this mission?

if the hab space has run out, it really depends on how long they have been stuck out there.  Generally your best bet is to get a new pilot out there (or a probe core) and bring them home.

 

[lancejammer]

6 hours ago, gamerscircle said:

I didn't know there was a separate forum for the MKS  and I should have stated that I do have Kerbals in the Processor', PDU' etc.  I guess, the next part will be to locate the deposits that I can and establish the logistics.

As for life support, I don't understand how it can impact me now since I haven't installed it?  Is there an invisible timer started somewhere?

Sorry, I wasn't very clear... I meant that it would suck to have your current Kerbals suddenly die off once you finally do decide to install life support.  For now though, you should be fine

[RoverDude]

FYI, working on infographics for the guide

 

[meuqsaco]

9 hours ago, RoverDude said:

How long was this mission?

if the hab space has run out, it really depends on how long they have been stuck out there.  Generally your best bet is to get a new pilot out there (or a probe core) and bring them home.

 

Hello RoverDude. Thanks a lot for all your mods. I love them

 

It was a 25-30 day mission to Mun where I build a single ship to deploy 3 satellites in a mun orbit + 8 small science drones to land on the biomes and send me science back, so it took me a while since I didn't plan my trajectory very well. I'm curious, how can you bring him home using stock parts? Grappling hook? I've never used it yet, so I don't know how that would work.

[Sir_Robert]

12 minutes ago, meuqsaco said:

Hello RoverDude. Thanks a lot for all your mods. I love them

 

It was a 25-30 day mission to Mun where I build a single ship to deploy 3 satellites in a mun orbit + 8 small science drones to land on the biomes and send me science back, so it took me a while since I didn't plan my trajectory very well. I'm curious, how can you bring him home using stock parts? Grappling hook? I've never used it yet, so I don't know how that would work.

The Claw (Advanced Grabbing Unit) works just like a docking port, only it can dock anywhere. If you can dock, you can use the Claw

[Sir_Robert]

I have a question about Supplies production in the Nom-o-Matic.

I have 2 Nom-o-Matic 500 modules on my ship (for balance), and they are perfectly capable of keeping up with demand (vastly exceeding demand actually). But I have noticed something odd. It appears that they don't do anything when focussed on another ship (or KSC). When focussed on the relevant ship, supplies timer ticks up (because supplies are being produced faster than consumed).

However, when focussed on another ship, they tick down at 1 second per second (as in, no supplies production active). Is this normal? Am I missing something?

Also, for some reason the 3 Kerbals on board have a different habitation time, despite them all having boarded the ship at the exact same time. That's confusing. Bob did take a short EVA a few days in, but is that really all it takes to reset the timer?

Spoiler

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/495764117285529201/CE6D791A29742977653F350960C6E5171EFD2997/

Edited February 17, 2016 by Sir_Robert

[Kobymaru]

1 minute ago, Sir_Robert said:

I have a question about Supplies production in the Nom-o-Matic.

I have 2 Nom-o-Matic 500 modules on my ship (for balance), and they are perfectly capable of keeping up with demand (vastly exceeding demand actually). But I have noticed something odd. It appears that they don't do anything when focussed on another ship (or KSC). When focussed on the relevant ship, supplies timer ticks up (because supplies are being produced faster than consumed).

However, when focussed on another ship, they tick down at 1 second per second (as in, no supplies production active). Is this normal? Am I missing something?

Yes, that's normal. The game simply doesn't do "background processing" on anything but tracking the ships orbits and SOI transitions. What you see when you come back to the ship is that it "catches up" with what happened since the last time it focused. You should notice that the Supply time then jumps up from the value before you focused the ship.

There is a little bug in the mechanic though, but gameplay-wise you should be fine.

 

1 minute ago, Sir_Robert said:

Also, for some reason the 3 Kerbals on board have a different habitation time, despite them all having boarded the ship at the exact same time. That's confusing. Bob did take a short EVA a few days in, but is that really all it takes to reset the timer?

Yup, unfortunately. At the moment, going EVA is considered "recreational". I hope RoverDude changes his mind about that.

[PocketBrotector]

On February 15, 2016 at 3:01 AM, CovertJaguar said:

Well, the alt-F12 menu can be used to inspect the actual resulting part files after MM is done. I forget whether it is the config or database tabs, but eventually you will find a list of parts with a debug button next to them. Hitting the debug button will display the Part module in raw form. Granted this doesn't really help you determine which order patches are being applied anymore than what you are already doing. I'm still trying to figure out why the Inline Ballutes mod suddenly stopped applying the RealChute compat patches. 

Thanks, I didn't know about this feature. This is a big deal in making sure that everything's been applied correctly - very helpful in seeing the final result once ModuleManager is finished.