[1.12.x] USI Life Support

[RoverDude]

5 hours ago, Kobymaru said:

Yes, that's normal. The game simply doesn't do "background processing" on anything but tracking the ships orbits and SOI transitions. What you see when you come back to the ship is that it "catches up" with what happened since the last time it focused. You should notice that the Supply time then jumps up from the value before you focused the ship.

There is a little bug in the mechanic though, but gameplay-wise you should be fine.

 

Yup, unfortunately. At the moment, going EVA is considered "recreational". I hope RoverDude changes his mind about that.

I have a plan for this

[mikegarrison]

On 2/14/2016 at 8:45 PM, mikegarrison said:

Yup. Poor Nedden Kerman is still "EVA time expired" on the list. I feel for him, standing there next to his rover or capsule or whatever on the Mun.

So ... when I get there, will I be able to rescue him? What does "EVA Time Expired" mean, anyway? I didn't see it in any of the documentation.

I'm sure you were all as worried as I was, but Ned came through it OK. I landed near him, switched to him, and RCS'd him over to my ship.

The deal here is that when you accept a rescue contract for somebody in orbit, they are in their capsule. The LS mod seems to recognize that they don't belong to you until you go rescue them. But when you get a rescue contact for somebody on a surface, they are actually EVA standing next to their capsule. This seems to confuse the LS mod, and they are treated as one of your Kerbals who is on a really long EVA. If I had one of the harsher penalty settings installed, poor Ned might have gone KIA and presumably I would have failed the contract. (Or maybe he would have "wandered home" to KSP? I wonder how that would have affected the contact....)

[RoverDude]

There might be a way to sort this - that is, disregard EVA kerbals who have never been in a vessel before.

[PocketBrotector]

The new infographics, and all of the questions they provoked on the subreddit, has inspired me to make a tutorial/example. 

Most of the USI-LS documentation is currently on the UKS wiki. I wanted to make a relatively straightforward demonstration that incorporated all the USI-LS concepts but without using any UKS parts (to keep it simple for new users). So this new document is on the (otherwise empty) USI-LS wiki.

[Buster Charlie]

I love the tutorial, how do I tell habitation multipliers, and does the mod support  stock like station parts for this?

[PocketBrotector]

20 minutes ago, Buster Charlie said:

I love the tutorial, how do I tell habitation multipliers

There's no reference in-game for hab multipliers right now. The only stock part with a hab multiplier is the cupola. UKS has several additional parts with multipliers, notably the Kerbitat. When a multiplier exists, it's usually equal to the part's mass.

20 minutes ago, Buster Charlie said:

and does the mod support  stock like station parts for this?

The next release of Stockalike Station Parts will support USI-LS. In the meantime, there is a separate patch you can use. The 3.75m cupola and 2.5m observation module both have hab multipliers.

[mikegarrison]

17 minutes ago, PocketBrotector said:

There's no reference in-game for hab multipliers right now. The only stock part with a hab multiplier is the cupola. UKS has several additional parts with multipliers, notably the Kerbitat. When a multiplier exists, it's usually equal to the part's mass.

The next release of Stockalike Station Parts will support USI-LS. In the meantime, there is a separate patch you can use. The 3.75m cupola and 2.5m observation module both have hab multipliers.

Maybe you should make sure airlock parts get some credit. There is really no reason to include them except aesthetics, but if they gave some special hab bonus then there would be a reason for building them into bases.

[Buster Charlie]

1 hour ago, mikegarrison said:

Maybe you should make sure airlock parts get some credit. There is really no reason to include them except aesthetics, but if they gave some special hab bonus then there would be a reason for building them into bases.

@mikegarrison That's an excellent idea, or maybe airlocks reduce supply consumption rate instead ? My logic is you don't need to dump as much air when going on EVA so it makes the supplies last a tiny bit longer.

@PocketBrotector, Thanks for the reply!

[loch.ness]

Okay so first up - I know I'm using an outdated version.  I've been trying to update via-CKAN but the recent issue over there has caused some delays - so I'm using an out of date copy.  So this not a bug report, instead its a question.

 

My question is about if the thing I've noticed is an out-of-date bug or a new feature that I somehow missed:

 

playing in sandbox with craft on Kerbin.  I've twice now had crew simply die when left if a craft that had its EC run out while unfocused.  If they were EVA'd next to the craft they'd be fine.  the LS window would tell me that they still have X days left (and usually the elapsed game time is a few minutes.

 

With both instances I had a game craft while loading/switching teams.  In one instance I was testing out base building and in another I was parking multiple planes for a screen-shot.  First time I left Jeb in the pilot seat of one plane and went back to load two more.  After the third I had a crash, reloaded the game and Jeb was dead.  Elapsed mission time ~ 20 minutes.  EC in his plane had run out while he sat on the ground on Kerbin.

Second time I had a team of scientists and engineers in a rover (at night).  One Engineer was on EVA working to test building a Pathfinder base.  Switched back to space center to get more modules on a new rover, crashed, reloaded, drove back to the site - everyone was dead.  Reloaded an earlier quicksave and they were still all dead (despite being very alive when the save was made).

I really like USI-LS and want to keep using it, so I just want to know if this is a new feature I need to plan around or something that's already been squashed that I need to update to fix.

[mikegarrison]

44 minutes ago, loch.ness said:

Okay so first up - I know I'm using an outdated version.  I've been trying to update via-CKAN but the recent issue over there has caused some delays - so I'm using an out of date copy.  So this not a bug report, instead its a question.

 

My question is about if the thing I've noticed is an out-of-date bug or a new feature that I somehow missed:

 

playing in sandbox with craft on Kerbin.  I've twice now had crew simply die when left if a craft that had its EC run out while unfocused.  If they were EVA'd next to the craft they'd be fine.  the LS window would tell me that they still have X days left (and usually the elapsed game time is a few minutes.

 

With both instances I had a game craft while loading/switching teams.  In one instance I was testing out base building and in another I was parking multiple planes for a screen-shot.  First time I left Jeb in the pilot seat of one plane and went back to load two more.  After the third I had a crash, reloaded the game and Jeb was dead.  Elapsed mission time ~ 20 minutes.  EC in his plane had run out while he sat on the ground on Kerbin.

Second time I had a team of scientists and engineers in a rover (at night).  One Engineer was on EVA working to test building a Pathfinder base.  Switched back to space center to get more modules on a new rover, crashed, reloaded, drove back to the site - everyone was dead.  Reloaded an earlier quicksave and they were still all dead (despite being very alive when the save was made).

I really like USI-LS and want to keep using it, so I just want to know if this is a new feature I need to plan around or something that's already been squashed that I need to update to fix.

I'm using the latest version (as of last weekend anyway) and not only does running out of EC not kill my Kerbals, but it seems to make them stop needing to eat supplies, too. However, I don't have my consequences settings set to "kill" (5), they are only set to "grouchy" (1). Maybe that makes a difference with this.

[mcortez]

2 hours ago, Buster Charlie said:

@mikegarrison That's an excellent idea, or maybe airlocks reduce supply consumption rate instead ? My logic is you don't need to dump as much air when going on EVA so it makes the supplies last a tiny bit longer.

@PocketBrotector, Thanks for the reply!

Even better, new mechanic -- you loose some supplies every time someone enters or exits without using an airlock.  MKS includes an airlock part as well that's almost never used.

[mikegarrison]

I just accidentally discovered another exploit. You know how we have reported that the hab clock timer gets reset by going EVA? I just found out that once you run out of supplies, the 15-day supply clock timer also gets reset by going EVA. (I guess Minmus really is a minty dessert! Walking out onto it satisfied the hunger of my Kerbals, anyway.)

Edited February 18, 2016 by mikegarrison

[bertibott]

18 hours ago, PocketBrotector said:

The new infographics, and all of the questions they provoked on the subreddit, has inspired me to make a tutorial/example. 

Most of the USI-LS documentation is currently on the UKS wiki. I wanted to make a relatively straightforward demonstration that incorporated all the USI-LS concepts but without using any UKS parts (to keep it simple for new users). So this new document is on the (otherwise empty) USI-LS wiki.

Thanks! That is exactly what I had been looking for!

While reading it I noticed something... Kerbals really do eat a lot... A LOT! 16 kg per 6-hour-day either they eat some high density food or they are just munching down snacks non stop... but that is probably off-topic

[PocketBrotector]

5 minutes ago, bertibott said:

Thanks! That is exactly what I had been looking for!

While reading it I noticed something... Kerbals really do eat a lot... A LOT! 16 kg per 6-hour-day either they eat some high density food or they are just munching down snacks non stop... but that is probably off-topic

Yeah, we probably need a note somewhere that Supplies represent mostly water (and a little bit of air), not just snacks. This is seemingly everyone's first reaction to the new system. 

[bertibott]

16 minutes ago, PocketBrotector said:

Yeah, we probably need a note somewhere that Supplies represent mostly water (and a little bit of air), not just snacks. This is seemingly everyone's first reaction to the new system. 

still 16 litres of water is a lot. a grown human needs about (please don't quote me on this... not really my field of expertise) 2.5 - 5 liters per 24-hour-day depending on the kind of activites one would engage in... if you run a marathon you'll need more... or if you live in a very hot area...

EDIT:

How do know how efficient a recycler is?

Edited February 18, 2016 by bertibott

[Fraz86]

10 minutes ago, bertibott said:

still 16 litres of water is a lot. a grown human needs about (please don't quote me on this... not really my field of expertise) 2.5 - 5 liters per 24-hour-day depending on the kind of activites one would engage in... if you run a marathon you'll need more... or if you live in a very hot area...

I think 16L/day is meant to include water used for hygiene, food preparation, etc.

Edited February 18, 2016 by Fraz86

[ExplorerKlatt]

2 minutes ago, Fraz86 said:

I think that figure is meant to include water used for hygiene, food preparation, etc.

Yup, and the avg per day for a human in space is 33kg

[Gribbleshnibit8]

Personally I'd prefer to see a reworking of the resource density instead of resources used, in order to keep resource units used perday at 1. It makes eyeballing the amounts needed easier IMO. Unless I'm missing something.

[PocketBrotector]

26 minutes ago, bertibott said:

How do know how efficient a recycler is?

Right now it is not visible in-game (though I have filed a Github issue to request this be added to the expanded mouseover in the VAB part selector, since it is a common question).

The only recycler added to stock the science lab, which is 70% efficient for up to five kerbals. UKS adds a few more at varying efficiencies - the notable ones are the Pioneer Module at 75%, and the Kerbitat which consumes Water for an efficiency of 90%. (The mass of the Water consumed is considerably more than the Supplies/Fertilizer saved, so this is mostly useful if you can harvest Water from planets or asteroids.) 

I made a few configs to add USI-LS values to various mod and stock parts. Among other things, they add recyclers to parts that were (IMO) too heavy to be useful otherwise. The Mk1-2 pod is cool, for example, but I would never use it ever because the mass per crew capacity is too high - adding a recycler allowed me to balance that by increasing utility without changing the stock stats.

9 minutes ago, Gribbleshnibit8 said:

Personally I'd prefer to see a reworking of the resource density instead of resources used, in order to keep resource units used perday at 1. It makes eyeballing the amounts needed easier IMO. Unless I'm missing something.

All of the CRP resources are (I believe) standardized at 1 unit = 1 liter (stock fuel is 1 unit = 5 liters). Resource units can only ever be standardized across a single dimension, and standardizing by volume has the benefit (among others) of facilitating fuel-switching mechanics (see: kontainers).

[Gribbleshnibit8]

11 minutes ago, PocketBrotector said:

All of the CRP resources are (I believe) standardized at 1 unit = 1 liter (stock fuel is 1 unit = 5 liters). Resource units can only ever be standardized across a single dimension, and standardizing by volume has the benefit (among others) of facilitating fuel-switching mechanics (see: kontainers).

OK thanks. The crp thing is what I was missing in that thought process. I'm still a fan of simpler numbers (it's why I was a fan of Snacks), because it makes doing head math quicker. We do have the LS window that helps a lot, so it's not a huge issue, I just like round numbers and 16.2 annoys me

[ExplorerKlatt]

8 minutes ago, Gribbleshnibit8 said:

OK thanks. The crp thing is what I was missing in that thought process. I'm still a fan of simpler numbers (it's why I was a fan of Snacks), because it makes doing head math quicker. We do have the LS window that helps a lot, so it's not a huge issue, I just like round numbers and 16.2 annoys me

Well the usage per day is configurable so you could change it to make it an even number. 

For example, if you change the SupplyAmount line to 0.0006944 that would give you 15 supplies per day per kerbal. 

[Gribbleshnibit8]

Just now, ExplorerKlatt said:

Well the usage per day is configurable so you could change it to make it an even number. 

For example, if you change the SupplyAmount line to 0.0006944 that would give you 15 supplies per day per kerbal. 

Yeah,I've experimented with various numbers. One problem of course is that changing it too much requires a change on all the other recylcers and producers and I'm lazy and that's a lot of math. Also I'm not sure how small a value ksp will accept without rounding, because you can get very precise amounts if you go out enough decimal places.

[mcortez]

17 minutes ago, Gribbleshnibit8 said:

OK thanks. The crp thing is what I was missing in that thought process. I'm still a fan of simpler numbers (it's why I was a fan of Snacks), because it makes doing head math quicker. We do have the LS window that helps a lot, so it's not a huge issue, I just like round numbers and 16.2 annoys me

If it helps any, you could think of it as 1 unit of supplies for every 2,666.67 seconds (or 44.44444 minutes (or .7407407 hours)))   

Or just write yourself a little MM script to set the SupplyAmount to a nice round number

edit: okay, fixed that, decimal was off

Edited February 18, 2016 by mcortez

[Bloody_looser]

Well, I've missed several versions of USI LS and stuff have changed.

 

In the recent version kerbals seem to munch through supplies like some fatso through whoppers in BK. My Supplies backpack keeps them entertained for like a day only.

So, interplanetary is currently impossible or I'm missing something?

[PocketBrotector]

29 minutes ago, Bloody_looser said:

In the recent version kerbals seem to munch through supplies like some fatso through whoppers in BK. My Supplies backpack keeps them entertained for like a day only.

So, interplanetary is currently impossible or I'm missing something?

Consumption went up but now you have additional equipment to reduce it. See here for a worked example.

Edited February 18, 2016 by PocketBrotector