Am I the only "Glass half full" guy around here?

[FlowerChild]

Hey, I like the update well enough. Most of the issues I take with it are pretty marginal, oftimes even petty. It's my favorite KSP update yet, and that's saying something.

I lost two pilots in my career game due to heatshields producing some kind of weird phantom force that veers them off course. I've since found a workaround through modifying the related .cfg files, but given you can't play more than a few launches into career mode without rockets blowing up for reasons beyond your control, I'd say even that alone is very close to being a showstopper, and not something that new players will have any idea how to resolve.

There are other issues as well of course, and ones that likely would have come out very quickly in testing, as they have today.

As I said above, I think this is likely the best release of KSP yet. Really like it, and if it wasn't called 1.0, I'd be unlikely to object too strenuously. However, it definitely does have problems, and ones that even a moderate amount of testing would have quickly revealed.

Edited April 28, 2015 by FlowerChild

[mikegarrison]

Don't get me wrong, there's some great stuff in here, and if it weren't called 1.0 it would likely be the best release yet.

Exactly!

All the 1.0 hype and the 1.0 expectations are fuel for disappointment.

So far I've been reasonably happy. I was psyched about the cargo bay until I found out that I can't seem to return it from orbit without flipping my capsule or opening a chute at near-orbital speeds. But otherwise it's been pretty fun so far.

[Mode7]

I agree on the issue of craft flipping on reentry. I had to totally change the way I build my space craft. I can't rely on being able to bring down the science jr anymore as it is so light I end up leading with the capsule and losing my parachute or other parts. I have been either transmitting and ditching them or finding a way to bring them down separately. Once I get smaller probes I should be able to handle that much easier.

[FlowerChild]

I agree on the issue of craft flipping on reentry. I had to totally change the way I build my space craft. I can't rely on being able to bring down the science jr anymore as it is so light I end up leading with the capsule and losing my parachute or other parts. I have been either transmitting and ditching them or finding a way to bring them down separately. Once I get smaller probes I should be able to handle that much easier.

It's not just the science Jr., which I think is arguably reasonable behavior.

Just a plain capsule with only a heatshield will do it. Related bug thread here, and so far our only official response seems to be having it labeled as "not a bug":

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/116839-Heat-shield-seems-to-be-treated-as-having-0-mass

[Whackjob]

My cup runneth over. So I put it in an inline storage tank.

Then shot it into space so it would freeze and quit making a mess.

[Robotengineer]

Aside from a couple of issues, I'm pretty impressed with 1.0. I love the service bays, and the new aero especially.

[SkyRender]

Most of the issues I've seen people have are related not to any actual problems with the game, but rather problems inherent in their design strategies. The whole "capsule flip on re-entry" one being a prime example: those of us who didn't use FAR and/or DRE before this didn't know that keeping center of mass on the re-entry component towards the heatshield end was critical to not burning up. A lot of us also aren't aware of the very real risks with letting the components beneath your capsule act as a makeshift heatshield: heat transfers through them up to the capsule, just like in real life. The reason heatshields even work is because they're ablative (ie. they keep their energy contained), ergo the heat does NOT transfer through them. These are lessons that a lot of us have to learn the hard way, there's no getting around that. As someone who already learned those lessons from FAR and DRE, I don't find them anywhere near as trying as other players will.

[regex]

Maybe we just got too popular. Started attracting the wrong crowd. There seems to be a contingent of people on the internet that just love to complain or be cynical. They move from one community to another slowly sucking the life out of it like they are some kind of vampire. For them the forum is primary, the game is secondary.

Try being positive yourself for once, sheesh.

Seriously, go back to reddit...

[FlowerChild]

Most of the issues I've seen people have are related not to any actual problems with the game, but rather problems inherent in their design strategies. The whole "capsule flip on re-entry" one being a prime example: those of us who didn't use FAR and/or DRE before this didn't know that keeping center of mass on the re-entry component towards the heatshield end was critical to not burning up. A lot of us also aren't aware of the very real risks with letting the components beneath your capsule act as a makeshift heatshield: heat transfers through them up to the capsule, just like in real life. The reason heatshields even work is because they're ablative (ie. they keep their energy contained), ergo the heat does NOT transfer through them. These are lessons that a lot of us have to learn the hard way, there's no getting around that. As someone who already learned those lessons from FAR and DRE, I don't find them anywhere near as trying as other players will.

No, seriously, it's a bug not expected behavior. Read over the thread I linked and you'll see what I mean.

I'm familiar with both FAR and DRE. This isn't the same thing. People attaching Science Jr. to the bottom of their pods, yes, I agree, that should cause problems. Mk1 command pods constantly veering off course with only a heatshield attached? That's something else, and it's also easily fixed by enabling physics on the shields.

Edited April 28, 2015 by FlowerChild

[Yellowburn10]

Since I got the update, and hearing about the capsule reentry problems, I decided to test this out myself. So far, I've only done one test, a mk1 pod with heat shield reentering from a 120 km orbit. During the entire trip I was able to control the pod and keep it straight. Next I'm going to try it with a cargo module, science jr, and test all 3 again, but from mun orbit.

[r4pt0r]

Maybe we just got too popular. Started attracting the wrong crowd. There seems to be a contingent of people on the internet that just love to complain or be cynical. They move from one community to another slowly sucking the life out of it like they are some kind of vampire. For them the forum is primary, the game is secondary.

Yeah Reddit might be a better hugbox for you mate.

[FlowerChild]

Since I got the update, and hearing about the capsule reentry problems, I decided to test this out myself. So far, I've only done one test, a mk1 pod with heat shield reentering from a 120 km orbit. During the entire trip I was able to control the pod and keep it straight. Next I'm going to try it with a cargo module, science jr, and test all 3 again, but from mun orbit.

Try it dead stick (no control input). Yes, if you have sufficient power for your reaction wheels, you can fight the way it veers off all the way down. That really shouldn't be how this works.

[Guest]

No, you're not. It's a great update full of a lot of content and features. However, you're going to have to deal with the entitled and fickle lot that are present on these forums complaining about absolutely everything.

^^ This.

1.0 has been great so far. Very happy with it, and I'm glad to hear others are too. You will find some quality content here on the forums, especially the game mods, but you'll have to learn to filter out an awful lot of silly noise in between.

[Motokid600]

You get real. I never said anything about this being the worst place on the internet. Hell, WoW's community got almost as bad as this by the time it was out of beta. Just because their are worse offenders doesn't mean that this forum is all sunshine and roses. The majority of people here are great. They like talking about KSP, rockets, space exploration, etc... Thats all cool. Unfortunately there is a minority of users that post A TON that are super negative. I don't like reading it so I switched to the reddit which is more positive.

Well get used to it. The game is released now. It's playerbase is going to increase significantly.

Oh, by the way did I ask the games, what? 14 hours old?

Edited April 28, 2015 by Motokid600

[Red Iron Crown]

First of all I would like to say, wow. So many complaints about 1.0, no one complimenting the new aerodynamics model, the hard effort in creating it, or anything happy in general. Despite looking at these forums depressing me, I personally enjoy the new patch. The new parts are amazing, and fun to play around with. The interiors are just superb, nothing else to say about them. I for one am just happy about the fairings because of their stellar looks and good functionality, despite their mass, which is greatly offset by the new practically no-drag atmosphere. I just wanted to say thanks squad for all of your hard work! Hope we can get a few bugs fixed, but a lot of content and new things to play around with!

I wouldn't read too much into the complaints, some people just take the good stuff for granted and focus on the negative. That is a useful function sometimes, as any flaws are quickly pointed out, but sometimes you just want to enjoy the good stuff, too. And there is a lot of good stuff this go round.

Let's get this thread back on the rails a bit and away from the comments about each other or who belongs in what community. We're all KSP players here, nothing wrong with a thread that's about the positive things in this release.

[Robotengineer]

No, you're not. It's a great update full of a lot of content and features. However, you're going to have to deal with the entitled and fickle lot that are present on these forums complaining about absolutely everything.

:hailsquad:

[Endersmens]

I absolutely love this update. I love almost everything about it.

The parachutes are confusing me though. pulling 20Gs at 30,000 meters is a bit....odd. and my pod falling at only 200 m/s at 20,000 meters is weird too.

But I'm not a complainer, so back to my 1.0 career.

[Mode7]

Try being positive yourself for once, sheesh.

Seriously, go back to reddit...

Like I said in another post. I don't think it is the majority of people on here. I just think that some people have more fun on here being trolls.

edit: I don't think my tone is coming across very well in the text.

Edited April 28, 2015 by Mode7

[Yellowburn10]

Try it dead stick (no control input). Yes, if you have sufficient power for your reaction wheels, you can fight the way it veers off all the way down. That really shouldn't be how this works.

Yes, I saw that it went nose first when SAS was off, but I was testing the notion that you couldn't get any control at all, with or without SAS, since most of the complaints I heard were like that.

[FlowerChild]

Yes, I saw that it went nose first when SAS was off, but I was testing the notion that you couldn't get any control at all, with or without SAS, since most of the complaints I heard were like that.

I think those complaints are mostly originating from the "strap a science Jr." crowd, that aren't used to having to be concerned with COM on reentry vehicles.

There's a very real underlying problem to it as well, that's unfortunately getting obfuscated by the above complaints when it gets misinterpreted as being the same thing.

It isn't exactly nose-first either. It tends to veer off at about a 45 degree angle to the direction of travel, and is stable there. Problem is, that means the pod itself is well in the shockwave

Edited April 28, 2015 by FlowerChild

[Whirligig Girl]

So far I'm loving it and have had few problems so far.

[Brapness]

Maybe we just got too popular. Started attracting the wrong crowd. There seems to be a contingent of people on the internet that just love to complain or be cynical.

That's not just a problem with the internet, it's a problem with society in general. Plenty of people who claim to be realists are just pessimists in denial. In defiance of their expectations both good and bad things happen, which is what pisses them off I think...

[regex]

Like I said in another post. I don't think it is the majority of people on here. I just think that some people have more fun on here being trolls.

edit: I don't think my tone is coming across very well in the text.

How could it? You basically typed "KSP FORUMZ SUX REDDIT AWESOME" and then insulted the community here.

Look, it's literally the day of a major release forced through an ill-thought out deadline. Once the program is hotfixed, which I'm sure it will be, everything will calm down. Until then, if you can't handle the heat here, go read reddit or something. This is nothing new. Acting like everyone here is terrible and complaining or whatever is just creating more work for the mods.

[Red Iron Crown]

Ease up on the discussion of each other's personalities or stronger moderation measures will be necessary. Final warning.

[Moss]

I've heard it said before that the people that complain most about KSP are the people that love it the most, because they want it to continue being good. There's a strong case to be argued that KSP 1.0 is currently unplayable due to the "massless" heat shield issue. I don't think it's fair to criticise players for expressing this on the same grounds that one might disparage a troll.