WOW! Any vanilla hard difficulty career mode players get to the mun yet?!

[Peder]

I play hard vanila game, and I am really happy we now have the V1.0 so I really can get far in the hard career mode without holding back waiting for the next update.

I agree it took some time to get into orbit the first time though im a very experienced player. And I also find it hard to earn the money and gather the science. But once I get a few steps closer and such missions as send an sattelite into orbit then I start earning allot of money, and it become a bit more easy to go to the mum /minmus and further when I have upgradede the buildings that allow me to get navigation nodes on the map for navigation.. Without I can hit the mum 100% of the time, but it become very difficult to go to minmus and other planets.

[DocMoriarty]

I played quite a few hours and it's rather hard to get science and money now in career mode. At least in the beginning. Despite using all 'cheap' possibilities to get science (such as doing science for all buildings of KSC etc.) i still don't have Skipper or Rockomax stuff. Though i can build simple aircraft which helps with first atmospheric part tests. Also got to the Mun (Orbit) once but couldn't return due to lack of fuel. At least i have technology now to rescue my poor Kerbal and do other Kerbal rescues. Very hard to get science now to unlock Skipper/Rockomax parts to make Mun landings possible for more science. Career mode for sure is very very hard for new players now (normal difficulty). Also lost Jeb and Valentine due to re-entry heat problems with capsules turning around during aerobreaking. So for now i only land capsules with nothing but heatshield and chutes attached.

[Teutooni]

Like many have stated being restricted to very basic parts and tier 1 buildings can be a fresh challenge for veterans. After some 10 launches I have been to munar orbit and back. With the 909 now unlocked I am going to try design a munar landing mission with less than 30 parts. I have done stock tylo landers with all science collection stuff that weighed 5.1 tons, but that was with old engine performance and parts from higher up the tech tree. This should be interesting.

After that... well, just to unlock the ability to take a surface sample would cost me 1 052 000 funds, which is absolutely ludicrous. I will probably just start a normal career without quickloading or crew respawn.

[uglyduckling81]

I like Hard Mode for the difficulty but I don't have the time to grind out credits so I play on hard but with 100% cash and science. I do 1-2 missions to unlock a new science tree rather than 10. I only get an hour a day for gaming these days so I have to make the most of it.

[Scotius]

Pretty sure you're not playing on Hard OR you grinded a lot to have the funds to upgrade your launch pad & VAB.

The craft you have there is well over 30 parts, so you'd need to have upgraded the VAB, which on hard mode is quite a steep price.

I don't have KSP here at the moment but the launchpad and VAB were something like 150k and 350k to upgrade to launch you're craft there. Other buildings are also very steep (think the science center was something over 500k?)

With that said, this is hard mode and personally I kinda like it, but i do think the building cost is leaning more towards grindyness vs difficulty for building upgrades. The tech tree, income from missions, etc are pretty challenging and fun as is I have to make real hard choices for my tech trees because science isn't so easy to come by now, and a botched launch can leave your space program in financial turmoil for some time!

Yep, i play on Normal. Sorry, i missed the "Hard" in the title - my bad

[Mr. Scruffy]

I think something that many may be overlooking might be, that not all changes make the game harder. SRBs are throttlable now. For a first stage, just strapping some together (without struts or decouplers) is not a bad idea anymore, even if the 100% throttle would be deadly. Just go with 20% or even less, if need be, and let like 4 BACC-boosters blow you out of the atmo.

Munar fly-by isnt really that hard. Getting back any experiments through the re-entry is much harder (if you dont resort to chute-cheesyness), even if you fixed the heatshields (you know, that set physics_something = 0 thingie). I brought the mat-bay and a goo+thermo in a service bay, and on reentry, one after the other waved good-bye. As sad as it was, i was glad that at least the pod made it back and was thinking that this is about the best way to implement it, gameplay wise - have parts blast off with relative ease, but make fatalaties rather unlikely. Limited risks.

[Alshain]

I'm playing on Normal coming from having a good deal of FAR experience and I've found it only slightly more challenging than 0.90. There is some challenge as I never used DRE, but never the less, I'm more than half way through the tech tree already.

[Superfluous J]

Vanilla doesn't give me enough information, and hard mode isn't harder than normal mode, it just requires more grinding.

So no on both counts for me. I've not landed on Mun yet, but I've also not had as much time to play as I'd like.

[herbal space program]

So has anybody managed to get the Science Jr. into orbit with only first-tier facilities? I tried and tried last night and couldn't do it. Every configuration I used was just shy of making it.

...Also, I'd love to know what people's impressions are as to how the optimal profile for orbital ascent has changed. With the earliest engine, it seems like I have to start my gravity turn a fair bit earlier and pitch down much more slowly to avoid flipping out, but I'm wondering how much deltaV I'm robbing myself of doing it that way. OTOH, it seems like drag drops off quite a bit more precipitously at higher altitudes now, suggesting that the time to go into an all-out burn for 70km is earlier than in 0.90.

Edited April 29, 2015 by herbal space program

[Maolagin]

...Also, I'd love to know what people's impressions are as to how the optimal profile for orbital ascent has changed. With the earliest engine, it seems like I have to start my gravity turn a fair bit earlier and pitch down much more slowly to avoid flipping out, but I'm wondering how much deltaV I'm robbing myself of doing it that way. OTOH, it seems like drag drops off quite a bit more precipitously at higher altitudes now, suggesting that the time to go into an all-out burn for 70km is earlier than in 0.90.

The biggest thing is pitching slowly, you never want to be pointing more than a few degrees off your velocity vector while deep in the atmosphere. I've had pretty good results so far starting to turn off vertical at a couple km tops (I hate dropping SRBs straight down onto the launch pad, but then again I've been yelled at by real-life range safety officers before) and pitching over gradually. I typically get to 45 degrees by 20-30 km altitude.

Also, you don't really need to burn straight for 70 km, the drag is low enough that it's perfectly reasonable to put your AP at 55-60 km and circularize from there. I can't tell yet whether that's any more efficient, though.

[Kerr_]

So has anybody managed to get the Science Jr. into orbit with only first-tier facilities? I tried and tried last night and couldn't do it. Every configuration I used was just shy of making it.

...Also, I'd love to know what people's impressions are as to how the optimal profile for orbital ascent has changed. With the earliest engine, it seems like I have to start my gravity turn a fair bit earlier and pitch down much more slowly to avoid flipping out, but I'm wondering how much deltaV I'm robbing myself of doing it that way. OTOH, it seems like drag drops off quite a bit more precipitously at higher altitudes now, suggesting that the time to go into an all-out burn for 70km is earlier than in 0.90.

Science jr into orbit? There's no reason to get science jr into orbit, you can take science with just a suborbital flight.

But, yes, you can. the KEY is remembering that liquid fuel engines are more efficient per mass - higher ISP - than solid boosters. KISS.

.craft file: http://pastebin.com/acq1b9WL

I had ~ 130 units of fuel left after making orbit. That's about 300m/s of delta vee to spare. I didn't make my preferred ascent profile, and was at a 33 degree inclination since I couldn't control the rocket well.

Warning: Extremely difficult to control, but I made it up on my first shot. (I play Honor hard mode - all of my ships have to make it the first time) with a cruddy flight profile.

The launchpad upgrade will be possible after your second hardmode flight, it should be your first upgrade.

I'm running mun/minmus missions right now, but I still have the 30 part limit. I'm fighting it every ship, often sacrificing utility to make the mission complete. (IE, fewer batteries, one less goo container, ETC)

[ghpstage]

I'm finding science to be my primary bottleneck in the new career, as a lot of the more useful stuff, such as the 909 and larger fuel tanks have been pushed way back. But now armed with the knowledge that scientists can reset science jrs and goo pods for re-use I have couple of ideas to try.

Scientist in a plane to collect from the numerous biomes local to the KSP, and if I can get into orbit without SAS now, high altitude, space near Kerbin, space high above Kerbin, flying over Kerbin and whatever biome I land at in a single flight

[Kerr_]

I'm finding science to be my primary bottleneck in the new career, as a lot of the more useful stuff, such as the 909 and larger fuel tanks have been pushed way back. But now armed with the knowledge that scientists can reset science jrs and goo pods for re-use I have couple of ideas to try.

Scientist in a plane to collect from the numerous biomes local to the KSP, and if I can get into orbit without SAS now, high altitude, space near Kerbin, space high above Kerbin, flying over Kerbin and whatever biome I land at in a single flight

The trick is managing to use the parts you have to collect the best science possible. My first mun mission netted 350+ science between a materials bay, 4 goo containers, and endless crew/eva reports. And I didn't even have batteries yet.

[spinomonkey]

I'm enjoying 1.0. Though the grind for science is a bit rough. I imagine once I have enough basic parts to get me to and from the Mun I'll be a lot happier.

[herbal space program]

Science jr into orbit? There's no reason to get science jr into orbit, you can take science with just a suborbital flight.

But, yes, you can. the KEY is remembering that liquid fuel engines are more efficient per mass - higher ISP - than solid boosters. KISS.

.craft file: http://pastebin.com/acq1b9WL

I had ~ 130 units of fuel left after making orbit. That's about 300m/s of delta vee to spare. I didn't make my preferred ascent profile, and was at a 33 degree inclination since I couldn't control the rocket well.

Warning: Extremely difficult to control, but I made it up on my first shot. (I play Honor hard mode - all of my ships have to make it the first time) with a cruddy flight profile.

The launchpad upgrade will be possible after your second hardmode flight, it should be your first upgrade.

I'm running mun/minmus missions right now, but I still have the 30 part limit. I'm fighting it every ship, often sacrificing utility to make the mission complete. (IE, fewer batteries, one less goo container, ETC)

Thanks for posting that. From reading the craft file, it looks like what you had is very similar to what I had, except that you're using the 90/110 fuel tanks instead of the 45/55 ones and you also have tail fins. I read on another thread that the larger tanks somehow have less drag when stacked up than the smaller ones, so that may have made a significant difference. You also put less fuel in your upper stage and more in your lower than I did, which probably helped as well. Moreover, the tail fins probably helped you to maintain a better profile -- if you think that ship was hard to control you should have seen mine! The thing I didn't mention in my OP was that I was trying to do this as my second mission of the game, so I only had the first two nodes of the tech tree unlocked. No tail fins or bigger tanks for me. Anyway, you have shown that it is doable without upgrading any facilities!

Oh, and as to the Launchpad upgrade being first, I was thinking more that the astronaut facility would be the best one to do first, because then you can do space EVAs over all the different Kerbin biomes to get more science. Either way, the Launchpad would definitely be the next one for me. There's no getting to the Mun with only 18 tons! I guess it's really a matter of what you're trying to do. My goal has basically been to get as far as possible with as few flights as possible.

Edited April 29, 2015 by herbal space program

[ghpstage]

The trick is managing to use the parts you have to collect the best science possible. My first mun mission netted 350+ science between a materials bay, 4 goo containers, and endless crew/eva reports. And I didn't even have batteries yet.

Just got 92.5 science from my second proper flight in a new career game. Sent a scientist to orbit and reused a mat bay and goo to grab high atmosphere and space near Kerbin science as well as the obligatory EVA spam.

Had I not lost them both on re-entry I suspect it would have past 100.

Pushed me up as far as advanced rocketry for 909's. Will try for at least Munar orbit with the next launch

Seems like scientists now have massive potential, particularly in the early game.

The low dV biome hopping you can do on Minmus with a single mat lab and goo could allow you to stack up ludicrous amounts of science.

Edited April 29, 2015 by ghpstage

[MarkusF]

I just started a new career on hard mode (but with activated revert flight and quickloading). After orbiting kerbin I started getting some additional science. I used the landing gears and a jet engine to drive around KSC to gather the science there (it's nice, that scientists are now able to reset experiments) and used a small airplane to get a goo container and a materials lab to highland and mountain terrain.

Then Jeb did a blind (no patched conics or manouver nodes) flyby to mun, followed by a blind mission for mun orbit. Leaving mun's orbit proved to be quite difficult without patched conics, I wasted a lot of fuel there. After correcting my course for a Kerbin reentry after leaving Mun's SOI i ended up with two units of fuel left...

Right now, the only building I have upgraded is the astronaut complex, because I wanted to plant a flag on the return site from my first Kerbin orbit :-D However, it proved to be quite useful, in order to collect science, as I was not only able to do the eva reports, but also to collect all temperature readings from Kerbin to Mun (low kerbin, high kerbin, high mun, low mun) with a singe thermometer. (30 parts limit)

[ghpstage]

So I did that Munar orbit mission and came back with around 300 science points

I took one goo pod and one mat lab and reused them repeatedly to gather the leftovers from Kerbin high atmosphere and low Kerbin space and new science from high Kerbin space, high Moon space, two lots of each from low Mun space (one stored in pod one in parts) and finally from the biome I landed in. Lots of EVAs and crew reports too of course and +5% from a levelled scientist....

Surprised it got me that much!

Wondering if I can bag over 1,000 from Minmus now

Oh, and as to the Launchpad upgrade being first, I was thinking more that the astronaut facility would be the best one to do first, because then you can do space EVAs over all the different Kerbin biomes to get more science. Either way, the Launchpad would definitely be the next one for me. There's no getting to the Mun with only 18 tons! I guess it's really a matter of what you're trying to do. My goal has basically been to get as far as possible with as few flights as possible.

It does make sense, especially as you can upgrade while in orbit on your first orbital launch. Especially as you would probably want to look for the re-entry contract anyway as its worth like 30k if memory serves. Edited April 29, 2015 by ghpstage

[Gfurst]

Oh god the career mode is hard, After a few hours I'm struggling with science and lack of funds.

I skipped the 0.9 version so I'm bit lagging behind, after the stupid decision to try out policies, I wasted 110k valuable bucks for zero science.

Now I got two contracts I can't complete, aero surveys from up too 19k altitude, which is impossible with simple early game spaceplane.

None of my facilities upgraded yet, I'm still struggling to get a probe to orbit let alone a moon fly-by, not to mention no node planner or trajectory view =O

I'm dead.

Btw: had a lot of grind, building up smallish sort of rover, with the engine and spaceplane early gears, leading the scientist to collect few bits of science in each of the KSC biomes, a bit of a hassle but saved me up.

=O Scientist can reset experiments OHHHHHH awesome!!!! this is much much neeeded, isn't there a limit to the amount of experiments pods can take?

Anyway, how are you guys struggling with money and how to earn more? Contracts add a tidy bit but not much of help.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Gfurst

[Starwhip]

Really, you guys need to get the Tier 2 pad ASAP. It helps so much.

I have made it (to Mun flyby)!

[herbal space program]

Really, you guys need to get the Tier 2 pad ASAP. It helps so much.

I have made it (to Mun flyby)!

Yeah, I guess that 18 ton limit really is more oppressive than not getting to do space EVAs. So many problems go away if you can launch a bigger ship.

[ghpstage]

Btw: had a lot of grind, building up smallish sort of rover, with the engine and spaceplane early gears, leading the scientist to collect few bits of science in each of the KSC biomes, a bit of a hassle but saved me up.

=O Scientist can reset experiments OHHHHHH awesome!!!! this is much much neeeded, isn't there a limit to the amount of experiments pods can take?

Anyway, how are you guys struggling with money and how to earn more? Contracts add a tidy bit but not much of help.

Pods don't seem to have any limit on the number of different experiments they can take, my Mun mission came back with around 20 and I have seen higher in 0.90. But it can't carry any copies of a specific experiment in a specific biome, i.e. mystery goo test from space near Kerbin.

I get immediate cash from the records and scripted contracts, though I skip the 2500m/s record.

I can quite reliably achieve orbit on my second launch. Though in this most recent run I did a couple of science from launchpad/runway scummy 'launches' in between.

When in orbit you want to check the mission control for science data from Kerbin and especially the scripted contract about returning from orbit as thats worth a lot.

With all the records and contracts to that point, I typically have 380-430k to play around with.

Edited April 30, 2015 by ghpstage

[Gfurst]

When in orbit you want to check the mission control for science data from Kerbin and especially the scripted contract about returning from orbit as thats worth a lot.

Dang it, I think I've missed this one.... ARGHH angry at KSP for bad progression planning.... these kind of missions should be like records, always active...

With all the records and contracts to that point, I typically have 380-430k to play around with.

Thats about what I have right now. Tier 3 research (up to the 90 points ones), 330k bucks, but I stupidly spent over a 110k tinkering with the policy stuff, and respectively earned zero science from it.

[Beduino]

Playing on hard career here.. pretty difficult to start, but once you get a few sats in orbit of kerbin mun and minmus you can grind some profits and science... then things get easier when you are able to lands kerbals on these muns.

[Gfurst]

Playing on hard career here.. pretty difficult to start, but once you get a few sats in orbit of kerbin mun and minmus you can grind some profits and science... then things get easier when you are able to lands kerbals on these muns.

I'm reading on another, the tech tree one. Career seems to need a desperate overhaul, It seems more like an challenge to experienced players, more like anything else. How the hell does one game starts hard and gets easier?