SAS+Gimbals=Rockets no reachey spacey.

[TK421d]

is there some sort of solution for this yet? without completely disabling gimbals and severly handicapping our rockets?

[Robotengineer]

Don't use SAS. Try to keep your attitude marker inside the prograde indicator circle. Begin gravity turn around 100m/s depending on initial TWR, etc. Slowly tilt to 45°, and try not to get to 45° below 10km. You might want to try limiting the gimbal.

[Guest]

What's your ascent profile? Try tipping over about 5deg. once you hit 75m/s and then following the prograde marker to orbit. You can freely adjust the trajectory once you get a bit into the third atmosphere band. Make sure your rocket has a fairly low TWR on pad; 1.2~1.4 is plenty.

[juanml82]

Strut your command pod. Things are now very wobbly and if your command pod begins to shake, the SAS will try to compensate the shaking direction of the command pod by tilting the entire aircraft

[AmpsterMan]

Echoing Regex here; is no longer necessary to hug terminal velocity like it used to be. 1.8 isn't the magic number it used to be. Less DV to orbit coupled with less thrust required, means rockets tend to be smaller than they used to be.

[justidutch]

Last night I managed to reach orbit with a craft very similar to ones built in .90 and before. It took three 'test' launches to figure out a decent ascent profile. I can use SAS, though I prefer not to. So, I think it's just a matter of experimenting and a little bit of relearning. Out with the old, in with the new.

I did not notice any extra wobble, though I admit I've always strutted things pretty extensively in the first place.

[sal_vager]

Try editing the engines cfg and add "useGimbalResponseSpeed = true" and "gimbalResponseSpeed = 15" to the gimbal module.

[MGCJerry]

Though I don't agree with regex on many of his posts on the direction of KSP, I have to agree with him now.

The new aero isn't moar power anymore. Forget how craft flew in KSP 0.90, its over. I didn't have any problems getting things to orbit. You do need to follow a more realistic flight profile and adjust your throttle as needed and not make sudden control movements as rockets now behave like rockets. I find fine control (caps lock) ideal for ascent to prevent from over-correcting.

[Kerr_]

I Generally start pitching at about 8km, and don't reach 45 degrees until about 40-50 km. I don't want to cut any more atmo than I need to.

[Sandworm]

It isn't actually a new bug. This behavior did occur in .90, but was less noticeable under the stock aero of the time. It is an artifact of squad's layering approach to code. Note that it doesn't happen when you lock the SAS to heading hold rather than prograde or any other locked position.

I believe that dampening was applied to heading hold back when they were eliminating the shake for space stations, which was before they added the autopilot features. It looks like the dampening isn't being applied to other SAS settings, those that did not exist back when dampening was implemented.

Imho the continued presence of this bug is a significant development/management issue.

[anarkhon]

is there some sort of solution for this yet? without completely disabling gimbals and severly handicapping our rockets?

back in the old days before we have SaS,im using the "spin" technic,equip your rocket some spin thrusters - they stabilize your craft very well

[Enorats]

Granted, I used to play with NEAR/FAR.. but I'm not having any problems at all with rockets. They don't feel any different at all, even from stock. A little smaller (compared to stock) maybe, but that's it. Stock aero let us do some really silly things, like turning a rocket on its side in atmosphere. I generally leave my rockets totally alone until my Ap is 50-60km, then begin my gravity turn by slowly turning to 90 degrees. I try to reach 90 degrees around the same time I hit my target Ap, then kill the engines until I drift far enough to begin a circularization burn. I've found that any input at all before that point (outside of SAS) leaves rockets veering off like crazy.

[Whackjob]

That's an SSTO. Getting to orbit is actually easier, now. Everything you brain tells you, "This doesn't work, but it SHOULD!" you just have to let go and throw away.

[TK421d]

ty for all the suggestions and tips

Echoing Regex here; is no longer necessary to hug terminal velocity like it used to be. 1.8 isn't the magic number it used to be. Less DV to orbit coupled with less thrust required, means rockets tend to be smaller than they used to be.

speaking of this, has anyone started on a new Dv-Map with the new aero etc.?

[CalculusWarrior]

Everything you brain tells you, "This doesn't work, but it SHOULD!" you just have to let go and throw away.

You must unlearn what you have learned! Wise words, Whackjob, wise words.

[TK421d]

i still cant f*ing get anything to orbit other than a plain srb+drone or capsule.

every time i try to launch any kind of craft or payload, what happens?

head over heels tumbling as soon as you begin a turn. every time, even with frigging airplane wings on a rocket...

whats the alternative? overstack Dv and launch straight up all the way to altitude??????

i cant believe this aero change made it out of testing.

[Whackjob]

i still cant f*ing get anything to orbit other than a plain srb+drone or capsule.

every time i try to launch any kind of craft or payload, what happens?

head over heels tumbling as soon as you begin a turn. every time, even with frigging airplane wings on a rocket...

whats the alternative? overstack Dv and launch straight up all the way to altitude??????

i cant believe this aero change made it out of testing.

First, take a deep breath. Second, put some fins on the bottom to help the orientation. Third, don't turn so hard all at once. Fourth, space.

[MainSailor]

speaking of this, has anyone started on a new Dv-Map with the new aero etc.?

The DV map once you leave orbit will remain largely the same, other than aerobraking (which is going to be largely dependent on the aerodynamics of your craft now.)

You'll need less than 3,500 DV to get into orbit, based on some quick test flights.

Duna, Eve, and Laythe will see a similar reduction in DV needed to leave the surface.

[TK421d]

First, take a deep breath. Second, put some fins on the bottom to help the orientation. Third, don't turn so hard all at once. Fourth, space.

the deep breath is the first part. just annoyed when i posted... sorry.

yes, fins are there. even attempted canards as high up below the fairings as possible. only means faster flips unfortunately.

and there is no 'hard turning' after only 2-3° its an instant flip, and any craft looks/feels like a fishing bobber with a weight on the top turning underwater.

i know the spaceplane people may love this, but its absolute garbage for rockets so far.

[Sandworm]

yes, fins are there. even attempted canards as high up below the fairings as possible. only means faster flips unfortunately.

There is your mistake. Keep all the draggy wing bits at the other end of the rocket. You want the top to be as smooth as possible. The whole things should look like a dart: pointy at one end, flappy at the other.

[KerBlammo]

I'm having similar issues with SAS on any wobble gets exaggerated by the gimbal response. To get to orbit put some fins on the rocket, use SAS in stability hold mode at launch and at around 100 m/s or so pitch over slightly and then turn the SAS off... the rocket will basically fly the ascent by itself until its time for MECO and then the circularization burn.

[MacroNova]

Surprised no one has mentioned this yet (or I missed it) but you can tone down engine gimbaling in the tweakable menu.

[Curveball Anders]

I've learned something today.

Boosters have tweakable thrust and fuel.

Which made life a lot easier

[TK421d]

well, wont be able to play for several days, but the only thing ive been able to get to work is like i mentioned, overloading Dv and just shooting straight up.

lock SAS on stability, and blowout for an AP out of the atmosphere, then coast to about 45k before ever touching the controls and nosing over to start circularization.

anything else ends disastrously, and i am very dissapointed by all this, the realism factor has completely dissapeared for me

[Kagame]

Heck, I don't start pitching over until I'm sure my apo is @ 100,000+ km. Of course, that *is* because I am a hopeless rocket jockey that's too busy staging a bunch of Fleas, Hammers, and the next size up of rocket booster (all in the same layer, droppin spent boosters to reduce aero drag and mass) so I can get all of my vertical dV done with. And because thirty-six rockets are so much fun.