[1.12.x] Cryogenic Engines: Liquid Hydrogen and Methane Rockets! (August 13, 2024)

[Brigonius]

@Nertea I made a plugin Config file only using LF/OX based upon Nerteas mod.

// Adds InterstellarFuelSwitch to stock tanks

// 5.5*total LFO

@PART

[*]:HAS[@RESOURCE[LiquidFuel],@RESOURCE[Oxidizer],!RESOURCE[MonoPropellant],!MODULE[interstellarFuelSwitch]] {

%LF = #$RESOURCE[LiquidFuel]/maxAmount$

%OX = #$RESOURCE[Oxidizer]/maxAmount$

%totalCap = #$RESOURCE[LiquidFuel]/maxAmount$

@totalCap += #$RESOURCE[Oxidizer]/maxAmount$

%tempVar = 0

%dryCost = 0

@dryCost = #$cost$

%LFCost = 0

%OXCost = 0

%mixLFCost = 0

// compute cost of stock tank fuel

@tempVar = #$RESOURCE[LiquidFuel]/maxAmount$

@tempVar *= 0.8

@mixLFCost += #$tempVar$

@tempVar = #$RESOURCE[Oxidizer]/maxAmount$

@tempVar *= 0.18

@mixLFCost += #$tempVar$

@dryCost -= #$mixLFCost$

@cost -= #$mixLFCost$

// Cost LF only

@tempVar = #$totalCap$

@tempVar *= 0.8

@LFCost += #$tempVar$

// Cost OX only

@tempVar = #$totalCap$

@tempVar *= 0.18

@OXCost += #$tempVar$

@tempVar = 0

MODULE {

name = InterstellarFuelSwitch

resourceNames = LiquidFuel,Oxidizer;LiquidFuel;Oxidizer

resourceAmounts = #$../LF$,$../OX$;$../totalCap$;$../totalCap$

tankCost = #$../mixLFCost$;$../LFCost$;$../OXCost$

displayCurrentTankCost = true

hasGUI = true

showInfo = true

availableInFlight = false

availableInEditor = true

basePartMass = #$../mass$

tankMass = 0;0;0

}

!RESOURCE[LiquidFuel] {}

!RESOURCE[Oxidizer] {}

}

Happy launchings!

Edited May 15, 2015 by Brigonius

[Fizwalker]

Love the engines..... I just have a question. Is there a config file for use with Procedural Parts? (other than converting them back to LF/O) If not, are there some tips for writing a config for them? For instance, altering the parts.cfg for the various procedural parts add an option to use Liquid Hydrogen (LqdHydrogen) be sufficient to use those resources?

[Svm420]

Love the engines..... I just have a question. Is there a config file for use with Procedural Parts? (other than converting them back to LF/O) If not, are there some tips for writing a config for them? For instance, altering the parts.cfg for the various procedural parts add an option to use Liquid Hydrogen (LqdHydrogen) be sufficient to use those resources?

Any chance of a fuel switch patch for Procedural Parts?

Is 4 pages too much?

@PART[procedural*Liquid]:NEEDS[CryoEngines]{
    @MODULE[TankContentSwitcher]
    {
        TANK_TYPE_OPTION
        {
            name = LqdHydrogen
            dryDensity = 0.1
            costMultiplier = 0.035
            // Based on observation that LH2 is 1/20 the cost of LF
            RESOURCE 
            {
                name = LqdHydrogen
                unitsPerT = 8800
                // Based on nertea's 5.5x total of mixed tank
            }
        }
        TANK_TYPE_OPTION
        {
            name = LqdHydrogen+Oxidizer
            dryDensity = 0.1
            costMultiplier = 0.785
            // Based on observation that LH2 is 1/20 the cost of LF and adding the cost mult for oxidizer only
            RESOURCE 
            {
                name = LqdHydrogen
                unitsPerT = 8000
                // Based on nertea's 5x total of mixed tank
            }
            RESOURCE 
            {
                name = Oxidizer
                unitsPerT = 800
                // Based on nertea's 1:10 ratio for mixed tank
            }
        }
}
}

Please critic it and let me know how it works haven't tested just made it. It is based the orignal stats from nertea's DL in OP.

Seriously 1 page! Read the Fn Thread.

[cipherpunks]

Yeah, I'd also really appreciate some engines without the base ring. Cause they look awkward when clustered:

[...]

I'm forced to use FASA engines only for this reason.

+1

Same here.

[Shadow86]

Random question: why do the engines have names born of human cultures? What would kerbals know about Mars, Odin, Tunguska and Chelyabinsk?

Food for thought.

[Sophistry]

Random question: why do the engines have names born of human cultures? What would kerbals know about Mars, Odin, Tunguska and Chelyabinsk?

Food for thought.

Maybe they don't, maybe it's simply a coincidence, similar to how "Pokémon" in Cornish means someone who is clumsy .

And taking your point more broadly, have we seen any Kerbal sailing ships? I demand to know how they know what a Mainsail is, Squad!

[PickledTripod]

I'd love ring-less versions of the engines as others requested too, if that isn't too much work. As always the models are amazing, stay awesome Nertea!

[Fraz86]

Given the requests ring-less engines, I thought perhaps it might be worthwhile for me to chime in as someone who doesn't want ring-less engines.

The purpose of this mod is to provide LH2/LOX analogues to some of the stock LF/LOX engines, and it does so beautifully. Nertea's parts have always been very "stockalike", and his mods generally conform to stock conventions whenever possible. These are traits that many users of his mods value. There are no ring-less stack engines in vanilla KSP, and as such, this request seems out-of-scope for this mod.

[Nertea]

To all those asking... the OP says I will, for RO. However, it's on my own time and is the lowest thing on my priority list.

[Shadow86]

Maybe they don't, maybe it's simply a coincidence, similar to how "Pokémon" in Cornish means someone who is clumsy .

And taking your point more broadly, have we seen any Kerbal sailing ships? I demand to know how they know what a Mainsail is, Squad!

That's a lot of complicated coincidences.

And that's taking the point too broadly, since a mainsail is a generic, non-cultural thing (like a booster or a fuel tank), not a specific mythological character from a specific human culture (Mars, Odin), or a specific place on Earth (Tunguska, Chelyabinsk). Those are not merely words in a language, but names with very particular cultural significance. As far as I can see, Squad has been mindful of these things when it came to nicknaming parts.

But I'll leave it at that. I'll accept that the names were chosen because they sounded cool. No other justification is likely to cut it.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Shadow86

[mikegarrison]

I am enjoying these engines. But I miss the huge gold foil tanks from NFP.

I am confused, though, about how so much LH2 fits into the same space as a small amount of kerosene.

[Enceos]

Given the requests ring-less engines, I thought perhaps it might be worthwhile for me to chime in as someone who doesn't want ring-less engines.

The purpose of this mod is to provide LH2/LOX analogues to some of the stock LF/LOX engines, and it does so beautifully. Nertea's parts have always been very "stockalike", and his mods generally conform to stock conventions whenever possible. These are traits that many users of his mods value. There are no ring-less stack engines in vanilla KSP, and as such, this request seems out-of-scope for this mod.

Means you don't know what the mesh switcher does. And this mod already uses InterstellarFuelSwitch which has the mesh switcher inside.

[Sufficient Anonymity]

I am enjoying these engines. But I miss the huge gold foil tanks from NFP.

I am confused, though, about how so much LH2 fits into the same space as a small amount of kerosene.

CRP uses different units for LH2 and kerosene.

[mikegarrison]

CRP uses different units for LH2 and kerosene.

Well, I'm not terribly fussed or anything. I'm enjoying using this mod. But I have looked at some designs for cryo H2 airplanes, and from that I know how drastically more volumetrically efficient kerosene is. (That doesn't include O2 tankage, though. Maybe that's what is throwing me off.)

[Starbuckminsterfullerton]

The best solution would be to use InterstellarMeshSwitch with two options for each engine.

Nah. The best way to accomplish this is with the stock fairing module. Add a radial attach point ala AIES and only render the base if the node is used. No reason to use a plugin if it can already be done automatically by existing facilities.

That said, I might be one of the few that thinks we don't need baseless engines.

Fuel tanks look worse when you can see their insides, the actuator pistons and turbopumps would just be hanging out there, and a giant engine stuck on a tiny fuel tank should look wrong. Those of you going for historical appearance have the offset tool, the rest of you have stack extenders, you'll be fine.

[redteddy23]

With this excellent mod providing rockets that use liquid Hydrogen I have been using the DunaDirect and TACLS (modified by SETI balance) split water and sabatier process. The only drawback to all this ISRU fun is that I sometimes need hydrogen to be liquid and sometimes a gas.

My solution was a gasifier/liquidifer! Here is a Module Manager patch to create a half sized ISRU unit and make it turn liquid hydrogen in to hydrogen and back. It also can turn oxygen into oxidizer and back but you can always strip that out if you want to. Hopefully anyone else who needs this feature can take this and modify it to suit them. I’m not a particularly seasoned MM patcher so it’s a good idea to double check everything and perhaps fiddle with the ratios to suit.

+PART[ISRU]:NEEDS[Squad]
{
    @name = TED_liquidgasifier
    @rescaleFactor = 0.5
	@node_stack_top = 0.0, 1.5, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 1
	@node_stack_bottom = 0.0, -1.5, 0.0, 0.0, -1.0, 0.0, 1
    @TechRequired = advScienceTech
    @entryCost = 12000
    @cost = 4000
    @title = Liquid-Gasifier
    @description = Developed to solve the age old problem of liquids being gases and gases being liquids.
	@mass = 2
	@dragModelType = default
	@maximum_drag = 0.1
	@minimum_drag = 0.1
	@angularDrag = 1
	@crashTolerance = 7
	@maxTemp = 2000

	-MODULE,* { }

	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleResourceConverter
		ConverterName = HydrogenCompressor
		StartActionName = Start Hy Comp
		StopActionName = Stop Hy Comp
		AutoShutdown = true
		GeneratesHeat = false
		UseSpecialistBonus = false

		 INPUT_RESOURCE
		 {
			ResourceName = Hydrogen
			Ratio = 10
			FlowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
  		 }
		 INPUT_RESOURCE
		 {
			ResourceName = ElectricCharge
			Ratio = 10
		 }
		 OUTPUT_RESOURCE
		 {
			ResourceName = LqdHydrogen
			Ratio = 0.01269
			DumpExcess = false
			FlowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
		 }
	}

	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleResourceConverter
		ConverterName = HydrogenDecompressor
		StartActionName = Start Hy Decomp
		StopActionName = Stop Hy Decomp
		AutoShutdown = true
		GeneratesHeat = false
		UseSpecialistBonus = false

		 INPUT_RESOURCE
		 {
			ResourceName = LqdHydrogen
			Ratio = 10
		 }
		 INPUT_RESOURCE
		 {
			ResourceName = ElectricCharge
			Ratio = 10
		 }
		 OUTPUT_RESOURCE
		 {
			ResourceName = Hydrogen
			Ratio = 7880
			DumpExcess = false
		 }
	}

	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleResourceConverter
		ConverterName = OxygenCompressor
		StartActionName = Start Ox Comp
		StopActionName = Stop Ox Comp
		AutoShutdown = true
		GeneratesHeat = false
		UseSpecialistBonus = false

		 INPUT_RESOURCE
		 {
			ResourceName = Oxygen
			Ratio = 10
			FlowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
  		 }
		 INPUT_RESOURCE
		 {
			ResourceName = ElectricCharge
			Ratio = 10
		 }
		 OUTPUT_RESOURCE
		 {
			ResourceName = Oxidizer
			Ratio = 0.00282
			DumpExcess = false
			FlowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
		 }
	}

	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleResourceConverter
		ConverterName = OxygenDecompressor
		StartActionName = Start Ox Decomp
		StopActionName = Stop Ox Decomp
		AutoShutdown = true
		GeneratesHeat = false
		UseSpecialistBonus = false

		 INPUT_RESOURCE
		 {
			ResourceName = Oxidizer
			Ratio = 10
		 }
		 INPUT_RESOURCE
		 {
			ResourceName = ElectricCharge
			Ratio = 10
		 }
		 OUTPUT_RESOURCE
		 {
			ResourceName = Oxygen
			Ratio = 35460
			DumpExcess = false
		 }
	}

	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleAnimationGroup
		deployAnimationName = 
		activeAnimationName = ProcessorLarge_running
		moduleType = Converter
		autoDeploy = true
	}
}

[Nertea]

That's a lot of complicated coincidences.

And that's taking the point too broadly, since a mainsail is a generic, non-cultural thing (like a booster or a fuel tank), not a specific mythological character from a specific human culture (Mars, Odin), or a specific place on Earth (Tunguska, Chelyabinsk). Those are not merely words in a language, but names with very particular cultural significance. As far as I can see, Squad has been mindful of these things when it came to nicknaming parts.

But I'll leave it at that. I'll accept that the names were chosen because they sounded cool. No other justification is likely to cut it.

*frowns* You should probably have issues with names like Rhino, Terrier and Poodle too. Those are pretty specific non-generic names.

[rasta013]

With this excellent mod providing rockets that use liquid Hydrogen I have been using the DunaDirect and TACLS (modified by SETI balance) split water and sabatier process. The only drawback to all this ISRU fun is that I sometimes need hydrogen to be liquid and sometimes a gas.

My solution was a gasifier/liquidifer! Here is a Module Manager patch to create a half sized ISRU unit and make it turn liquid hydrogen in to hydrogen and back. It also can turn oxygen into oxidizer and back but you can always strip that out if you want to. Hopefully anyone else who needs this feature can take this and modify it to suit them. I’m not a particularly seasoned MM patcher so it’s a good idea to double check everything and perhaps fiddle with the ratios to suit.

Nifty...my career mode game is just about to start leaving the Kerbin SoI finally so I'll give this a bit of a run through. Looks fairly balanced at first glance but the tale is in the usage. Thanks!

- - - Updated - - -

*frowns* You should probably have issues with names like Rhino, Terrier and Poodle too. Those are pretty specific non-generic names.

As well as, Spider, Ant, Flea, Twin-Boar and Mammoth...and of course, don't forget simple names like rocket, SRB or RCS. If we're gonna get that picky about names then we should just make up generic nonsense words for everything because to me, it doesn't sound like Kerbals speak English or any other language on Earth.

Oh, and count me in for loving the ring adapters too while I'm at it...

[Nertea]

Just a little note for the rings vs no rings debate:

There are going to be two downloads eventually

• Regular: As it is now.
  
• RO: Correctly scaled, no rings, adjusted gimbal hardware
  

Once the gimbal hardware is adjusted to make the RO ones work, it's not that hard to scale things back down to KSP sizes. However, it's at the very bottom of the list!

[StevenJ]

Does anyone here have a cfg to make procedural parts stretchy tanks work with liquid hydrogen from this part pack? I wrote a config but could only get liquid hydrogen to show and not LH and Oxygen.

[rasta013]

Does anyone here have a cfg to make procedural parts stretchy tanks work with liquid hydrogen from this part pack? I wrote a config but could only get liquid hydrogen to show and not LH and Oxygen.

I've personally be using this one from Igor_percuso about 5 or 6 pages back...

Cyro Fuel Switch Patch

It will apply properly balanced amounts of fuel to PP tanks as well as any other tanks. Additionally, I'm using it alongside a MFT patch to give me some tank control for adding TACLS resources for other tanks and haven't had any problems - MOAR FLEXIBILITY!

[FlyMeToTheMinmus]

Hey there, can I just ask if I've missed something in the installation, as whenever I load the fuel tanks with the cryogenic engines in the VAB, it's fine for me to switch fuels, but as soon as I launch and go into the actual world, it gets put back to the stock liquid fuel and oxidise?

[rkman]

Advantage of these engines is 1) Isp, and 2) filling in some gaps in the stock lineup.

Downside of the high ISP of these engines is that they are not balanced with stock.

I'd guess that most people who are looking for additional engines for stock KSP are looking for engines that just fill the gaps between existing stock engines (for which i have re-purposed some of these, including lowering the ISP), not so much looking for engines that make the game easier if coincidentally the thrust requirements of a vessel cause one to end up using these engines.

[Captain Sierra]

Downside of the high ISP of these engines is that they are not balanced with stock.

I'd guess that most people who are looking for additional engines for stock KSP are looking for engines that just fill the gaps between existing stock engines (for which i have re-purposed some of these, including lowering the ISP), not so much looking for engines that make the game easier if coincidentally the thrust requirements of a vessel cause one to end up using these engines.

THere's some balancing to these engines, but it does almost nothing to offset the insane Isp of these engines, which fills the gap of not having engines that know what efficiency is in the stock game. Until the stock engines aren't pathetically balanced, I enjoy having an arguably OP engine pack.

[Nertea]

I wouldn't say they're that overpowered Analysis in the thread indicates some downsides .

Anyways, looking into updating this and I realized that I've completely set up the RL-10 (chelyabinsk) for its extensible nozzle animation without really much extra work. Is it worth doing this for the vanilla version? Originally the plan was only to do this for the RO version, but it looks like it'll be relatively trivial. It's kinda cool...