Mun Lander with new aero stuff.

[Skorpychan]

So. Previously, my planetary landers have been mostly like this:

(Sorry for the size; it's a screenshot)

Now, with the new aerodynamics model, that won't work. I tried it, it won't go up efficiently enough, let alone make a gravity turn.

A redesign would probably be vertical, for a more apollo style system, or just a big fuel tank. That, however, would cause stability issues with the landing legs.

Which is always fun. I'm sure Jeb would LOVE to be stuck on the Mun again.

Now, should I go with One Big Tank, or a couple of smaller ones and an engine in the stack that decouples and blasts off from there?

One Big Tank is good on part count, but I'm hauling the empty tankage all the way back.

Apollo style means hauling another engine AND another decoupler up, and down to the Munar surface. And if I've miscalculated, I've got to dump my landing legs partway down. Which sucks.

I'm stuck. I can't decide which way to go, and it's blocking me from doing anything until I work through it. So I come here, in the hope that input will help.

[Jouni]

I just choose to ignore the aerodynamics for the most part.

The Mainsail is powerful enough that you can deviate a few degrees from prograde during the ascent without any trouble.

I may have forgotten some less useful parts, such as landing struts.

[Skorpychan]

Yes, but I don't HAVE a Mainsail. Best I have is a Skipper, and I can't afford much more fuel.

I'm seriously considering dumping career mode and switching to science sandbox at this rate.

[Randazzo]

If you're going for a single vessel to land, re-ascend, and return to kerbin you're sort of stuck with something relatively large. With access to only the Skipper, you definitely want to keep the size down.

My first lander in 1.0 looked rather similiar to one of the engine nacelles on the lander above, with a pod on the top instead of a nosecone. It did have landing gear on it though.

[Taki117]

My first question is do you have a dV readout of some sort? I suggest Kerbal Engineer so that you ensure you have enough dV to get there and back. Also each engine has it's specific niche. The Skipper is a good light lift/second stage engine. The Poodle is a good in space engine.

[SlabGizor117]

One idea I had for a mun/minmus base is to have a "Ferry" rocket with a Nerv on it that can push a payload up to whichever moon and have the payload insert itself in the moon's orbit, then have the ferry aerobrake to get back into a stable Kerbin orbit, ready for it's next payload. you could even have docking port detachable heat shields and refueling ports and stuff, for a resupply mission to rendezvous with the ferry to switch heat shields and refuel it. It may not be the most efficient, but I think it would be fun!

[Poofer]

Concentrate on getting the fairings if you're having trouble with aerodynamics while ascending.

edit: also, if it's strictly a Mun lander, you can get away without fairings and a fairly tall/slim design. Like you said, you'd just need to work harder to land. My first lander was a service bay, most of the science in there. a Science jr, a fuel tank, a 909, and the command pod with chutes and heatshield.

Edited May 5, 2015 by Poofer

[SpeedDaemon]

It sounds like you might just not have the tech yet to be building landers with 2.5m parts. Stick with 1-Kerbal landers for now, and build them as tiny as possible. Fairings are pretty much a must-have for launching any kind of lander off of Kerbin. Even if the weight is symmetric, the drag might not be. ALL of my Mun and Minmus landers (and launchers) have been entirely 1.25m parts so far, and I *do* have the Mainsail unlocked.

Also put fins on the core launch stage, preferably the ones with built-in control surfaces, and your launches will go a lot more smoothly.

[Methusalem]

If you're going for a single vessel to land, re-ascend, and return to kerbin you're sort of stuck with something relatively large. With access to only the Skipper, you definitely want to keep the size down.

Now that Scientists can reset the experiments, it's even possible to make the lander smaller than before.

3000 dV, 5.5 tons and has all the experiments that you can use on the moons. It uses a Scientist as crew and has still SAS, since the fuel tanks are arranged around an OCTO probe core. The lifter was a simple 1.25m design with a T45 as main engine and 4x T30 around it in asparagus staging.

As long as you make sure to only use parts with a temperature resistance of 2000C for anything facing the atmosphere, you don't need a heat-shield for the orbital and moon missions. And if you build everything symmetrically (both, mass and drag) then it also doesn't need fairings. To be honest, they are cool and everything. But so far they never provided enough benefit to make up for their heavy weight.

[Jouni]

Yes, but I don't HAVE a Mainsail. Best I have is a Skipper, and I can't afford much more fuel.

The same design works in smaller scale too.

(That's the pinnacle of Kerbal technology in my current career mode game. The rocket is surprisingly stable.)

[Vanamonde]

New aero is much less restrictive than people are saying it is. I used this monstrosity

to land 2 mobile ore drillers on Mun.

[MechaLynx]

New aero is much less restrictive than people are saying it is.

Indeed, I'm finding the game easier with the new aero than I used to back in .23, although I might have not progressed enough yet.

Excellent job getting those drills up there! It reminds me of how much easier it is to refuel now.

[Skorpychan]

I know about how much fuel I need to get down to and back off the Mun, and what I'm doing with airless lander designs. What I'm looking for is how I'm meant to get it up TO said mun without brute-forcing it through the atmosphere.

Or perhaps tips on belly lander designs, as I got inspired reading this: http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/embarking.php#id--Belly_Lander

I mean, the new fixed landing gear worked well for a rocket car on Kerbin, so maybe I could so something like that on the Mun, landing it a bit like a spaceplane. That also gives the attractive notion of ramping it up a mountain or a crater rim to get to orbit.

(That's probably suicidal. I want to do it anyway, now. Jeb would love it.)