Mobile Processing Lab of Babysitting

[fairytalefox]

Recently I've got a ship with a lab and some science tools to the Jool's SOI. I admit it was kinda challenging and quite interesting, no complains here. And then...

1. Fill the lab with science data.

2. Process the data while fast forwarding.

3. Transmit science.

4. If there's not enough free space in the lab, go to step 2.

5. Go to step 1.

I'd say, it's more like a babysitting simulator than a space sim. Not challenging, not even difficult. Just tedious. Click-click-click-wait-click-click-click-wait, repeat until you win.

Is it just me or?..

[Varsi]

It was pointed out that Squad didn't want time based stuff like this in their game and suddenly they put this in... Fortunately it's not necessary to use. I still bring everything back like I used to. I may lose some doing this but I like it more that way.

[fairytalefox]

It was pointed out that Squad didn't want time based stuff like this in their game and suddenly they put this in... Fortunately it's not necessary to use. I still bring everything back like I used to. I may lose some doing this but I like it more that way.

Man, I was like you until I tried that. It's not "some", it's literally "click here to win". 500 science every minute. Virtually for free. Virtually unlimited. I'm bored as heck and I just can't stop. It's better than ice cream, believe you me, I've tried both.

[KerbMav]

If you just bring up lots of experiments and then timewarp through the processing you are doing it wrong.

(Clarification: A joke, there is no right or wrong in KSP really.)

The "lack" of monthly fixed costs for our space program makes this possible, as well as kerbonauts that never get bored and leave if they have to wait for years before their next flight or contracts with (really) tight time limits etc. - but I generally try to do several things at the same time (and will most likely add KerbalConstructionTime to my list of mods) instead of waiting for something else to finish/arrive that is more than a trip to Mun.

[Xaver]

And what do you do with the sciene? Tech tree is not much longer then in 0.90 i had the hope squad adds another science gameplay mechanic with 1.0.

[jarmund]

....

I'd say, it's more like a babysitting simulator than a space sim. Not challenging, not even difficult.

...

Heh, you don't have kids, I see.

[fairytalefox]

And what do you do with the sciene? Tech tree is not much longer then in 0.90 i had the hope squad adds another science gameplay mechanic with 1.0.

I didn't unlock all the tree yet. Right now I'm saving science. My sweet, sweet science. My preciousssss sciencccccce. What do I do, what do I do, don't ask me, I don't like difficult questions

[Tarheel1999]

I think the idea is that you do other stuff while it processes science and check on it every now and again. Clearly like many things it can be exploited if you so choose. In addition, it creates purpose for the scientists.

[TheXRuler]

But how can you get unlimited science? Is there now no limit with doing the same experiments over and over again? I remember extremely diminishing returns, especially for transmitting... Oo

Please go easy on me, I haven't had the time to play 1.0 yet as I refuse to let my old savegame go, and I need to wait for all my vessels to return and my mods to be updated

[dryer_lint]

And what do you do with the sciene? Tech tree is not much longer then in 0.90 i had the hope squad adds another science gameplay mechanic with 1.0.

I must be horrible at the game, because it's taking me forever to get through the tech tree now, compared to 0.90's tree which challenged you for the first ten flights or so...

[Lorunification]

You can get alone ~300 Science from the KSC by visiting all KSC Biomes as soon as you get the first wheels and the jet engine. From that point the rest is cake.

[Aerindel]

The tech tree is not the game. You don't win the game when you fill it out. Filling the tech tree just means that the REAL game has begun. Its like building your first safe house in minecraft, its just means you now have the foundation to build what you want.

I personally love the way the science labs work, although I would make them larger/heavier to be more of a challenge to launch. The old sample return missions seem really boring now compared to launching an actual science vessel to a planet and doing research for months, which btw, is a lot more realistic than just flying down, picking up a rock and returning to kerbin for the science. Instead of running a bunch of identical boring missions to each biome your encouraged to run one BIG mission and them to stay there and explore.

[Kuu Lightwing]

I like the science lab. I have three of them right now - at LKO, Mun and Minmus (All were conveninetly placed as contract stations). I just stuff them with data and do other stuff. Sometimes I check the labs to get some science or refill them with data gathered by landers (at the Mun/Minmus), dunno about LKO one.

[Hannu]

I tried the lab yesterday and got limited amount of science. It seemed to about double the science points. Or can I use same samples again?

This kind of slow action would work better if time were a real resource in the game. In my opinion it would be very interesting to have month or year long experiments. But there should be maintenance costs of everything so that you would have to calculate if something is productive or not.

There are some mods which give such an elements. Kerbal Construction time, life support mods etc. I combine it with some roleplay, for example crew circulation. But there could be more time dependent costs in game.

I suggest that wearing, maintenance work, tools, spare parts, expendable chemicals, and everything would be modeled by one maintenance resource. Every part would have some amount of it and it would be consumed during time. Activities would increase consumption significantly, because it should be possible to make probes with age of several decades (Outer Planets Mod). If level went too low (for example 30-50 %) the part would start to lose its performance (thrust, resource production/conversion, strength, etc.) and eventually break. You could get maintenance stuff tanks from KSC and use engineers to maintain ships. For example, a service ship with an engineer and maintenance resource tank could dock to the station and move maintenance stuff from the service ship to station parts. Of course the maintenance resource would be heavy and expensive. Only engineer astronauts could do maintenance and more experienced ones would give a resource bonus. Engineer on board could also decrease the consumption of maintenance stuff in every part of the ship. That would be relatively easy to implement to game and manage by players. It could very well be a mod like life support mods.

[Warzouz]

You can get alone ~300 Science from the KSC by visiting all KSC Biomes as soon as you get the first wheels and the jet engine. From that point the rest is cake.

You can do even sooner. Stick 2 command pods, horizontal, a lab Jr inbetween. Fit some Goo on the ends, and other science on the side of the pods. Some fixed solar panels (or you won't go very far). To go faster, add some tiny reaction wheels. Fill a scientist and any other kerbal, then ROLL ! Hopefully, Kerbal have a strong stomach...

I got a bit more than 300 with thermometer and surface sample unlocked.

[Brofessional]

It's a pretty tedious mechanic, but also overpowered. Once you put a lab and a hopper on Minmus you can complete the tech tree wihout going anywhere else.

However, if you use a life support mod the lab becomes fairly balanced. Fast-forwarding becomes expensive when you have to resupply the base constantly.

[WhirlwindMonk]

Like a couple other people in this thread, I don't sit there and watch it while fast fowarding. I go and do other stuff and check back in every couple missions. It's one of the reasons I find Kerbal Alarm Clock a critical mod. Send a ship toward Minimus, set an alarm for Change in SoI, go do some tourist or satellite missions, maybe a Mun mission, while I wait for the Minimus SoI alarm to go off.

[marce]

I start with the tech tree maxed out (but have to buy all new parts) and only work with funds:

• Active and inactive (=dead/retired) Kerbals get payed based on their level
  
• Each KSC facility has a fixed cost based on its level
  
• Each vessel in flight has a small fixed cost (ground crew in addition to the salary of the Kerbals on board)
  
• I do my own missions (no or only very few contracts) and reward myself with a bonus or penalty based on difficulty and success. Luckily I can control myself enough to keep it fun.
  
• I get a reputation based basic income (Reputation decreases over time if I don't do successful missions)
  
• I have more fixed costs than income, so I often mine for a valueable resource (not Ore of course but my own stuff only good for getting funds after recovery) to fill the gap
  

Being able to play KSP that way required a certain amount of modding effort from me and other nice guys, but I enjoy it a lot (even more than Sandbox) without having to grind (besides of mining operations, but I think those are fun).

tl;dr: if you don't like how science works, just don't use it without sacrificing other parts of career you do like. We have mods to make KSP super awesome for everyone!

[Warzouz]

The tech tree is not the game. You don't win the game when you fill it out. Filling the tech tree just means that the REAL game has begun. Its like building your first safe house in minecraft, its just means you now have the foundation to build what you want.

I personally love the way the science labs work, although I would make them larger/heavier to be more of a challenge to launch. The old sample return missions seem really boring now compared to launching an actual science vessel to a planet and doing research for months, which btw, is a lot more realistic than just flying down, picking up a rock and returning to kerbin for the science. Instead of running a bunch of identical boring missions to each biome your encouraged to run one BIG mission and them to stay there and explore.

Very true. Science is early-mid game when you unlock. But after that, it more a collection. In 0.90, when I did my Eeloo mission, the goal was to land on each biome to get all the science event the tech tree was fully un lock after my Duna/ike mission. I got 18000 science from Eeloo. Same with my Jool mission which give me 41000 points. I played in science gamemode

In carreer mod, adminsitration is very handy to convert that into cash.

[Aerindel]

Once you put a lab and a hopper on Minmus you can complete the tech tree wihout going anywhere else.

Which I think is how it should be...at least for the existing tech tree. It really makes me sad their aren't any really awesome parts locked away behind 5000 science barriers. The existing tech tree is pretty much just current technology. It would be cool if after you unlocked it you could start opening up future tech to play with.

[magnemoe]

It was pointed out that Squad didn't want time based stuff like this in their game and suddenly they put this in... Fortunately it's not necessary to use. I still bring everything back like I used to. I may lose some doing this but I like it more that way.

The lab does not have to be babysit, it manages better on its own actually as then it don't use power. Just check it once a month, transmit science and load more.

[Red Iron Crown]

I'm not really a fan of the "speedbump" mechanic requiring manual intervention to prevent timewarp abuse. I get what they're trying to do, but it penalizes legitimate timewarp use, e.g. the player has to stop every so often during a long transfer to transmit the data, it's just tedious.

Time-based mechanics should be balanced with other time-based mechanics IMO, whether it's life support or ongoing costs or whatever.

[Aerindel]

I'm not really a fan of the "speedbump" mechanic requiring manual intervention to prevent timewarp abuse. I get what they're trying to do, but it penalizes legitimate timewarp use, e.g. the player has to stop every so often during a long transfer to transmit the data, it's just tedious.

Time-based mechanics should be balanced with other time-based mechanics IMO, whether it's life support or ongoing costs or whatever.

Good point. Maybe I am just so excited to finally have a reason to land anything besides a one man lander on a planet that I don't care about all the other problems with the science lab.

Life support would change EVERYTHING. There would actually be a reason to use launch windows instead of just launching whenever you feel like it and then warping in orbit until things line up.

[rockowwc]

I just realised i've never actually used the stock lab... I've always used the on from station science, means taking an experiment to a station and running it there, then returning it kerbin for the science... Plus TAC-LS and Kerbonomics helped balance in 0.9

[cicatrix]

Man, I was like you until I tried that. It's not "some", it's literally "click here to win". 500 science every minute. Virtually for free. Virtually unlimited. I'm bored as heck and I just can't stop. It's better than ice cream, believe you me, I've tried both.

This is the reason why KSP needs at least some semblance of life support system. To prevent exactly that. Anything will go, really, but unlimited timewarp should be prevented.