Is the jettisoning of external fuel tanks considered staging?

[rodion_herrera]

I would slightly admit that my original question was sort of a loaded one. I mean if there was a competition for "strict" SSTO, then a spaceplane I made, that would utilize drop tanks, might be disqualified. Or is it still up for debate? Or it all depends on the "house rules" of the competition?

[Murph]

I would slightly admit that my original question was sort of a loaded one. I mean if there was a competition for "strict" SSTO, then a spaceplane I made, that would utilize drop tanks, might be disqualified. Or is it still up for debate? Or it all depends on the "house rules" of the competition?

That's up to each individual competition to define their specific rules for what is and isn't allowed.

[rodion_herrera]

That's up to each individual competition to define their specific rules for what is and isn't allowed.

But sooner or later, differing standards must gel into something universal yes? I mean, is the debate really over if Gagarin really made one orbit, or is the argument against it still strong, considering he ejected from the spacecraft before he landed (based on that French rule thingy)?

[Murph]

But sooner or later, differing standards must gel into something universal yes? I mean, is the debate really over if Gagarin really made one orbit, or is the argument against it still strong, considering he ejected from the spacecraft before he landed (based on that French rule thingy)?

Sure, you just need to produce a standard that you can get 100% of the people to agree on…

Edited May 20, 2015 by Murph

[AbacusWizard]

All I take away from the picture in the OP is that pilot just dropped two fuel tanks over what appears to be a suburban area.

Don't worry; as long as the pilot flies rapidly out of physics draw distance before the tanks hit the ground, they will simply disappear.

[Tourist]

All I take away from the picture in the OP is that pilot just dropped two fuel tanks over what appears to be a suburban area.

Isn't this how Donny Darko starts/ends?

[AbacusWizard]

I once landed a spaceplane on Laythe and when I took off again two of the engines scraped against the ground and broke off, but it still made it to orbit; does this count as staging?

[MalfunctionM1Ke]

Yes it is, you are ejecting dead mass away from your craft.

Thats was staging is essentially.

[KrazyKrl]

It's irrelevant if droptanks are staging.

Can you get to orbit with your craft, then deorbit it somehow.

Then just refuel, and head back to orbit?

SSTO.

If you need to replace anything but payload (and fuel), it's not SSTO.

Edited May 20, 2015 by KrazyKrl

[moronwrocket]

I am now tempted to design a spaceplane that has its "drop tanks" blow up on the way out of atmo due to heating effects.

[Rainbow-Dashie]

This reminds me a bit of the debacle over the Swedish STRV series of vehicles

What would you call this thing? The Swedes call it a tank, and by definition and construction, it is a tank. Most other armies would call it a tank Destroyer or Assault Gun, which by definition, it could also be.

So, is thing awesome piece of Modern Viking Hardware a tank or or assault gun? Depends what you want to do with it. If you want to make an SSTO with drop tanks, it's an SSTO to you, and maybe a Plane to others, and a shuttle to some. If it does what you want it to do, and fits your definition of what it's supposed to be, nobody can argue with that. But it may not fir their definition of the subject.

[AsterXiphos]

This reminds me a bit of the debacle over the Swedish STRV series of vehicles

http://www.model-making.eu/zdjecia/2/8/0/1229_rd.jpg

What would you call this thing? The Swedes call it a tank, and by definition and construction, it is a tank. Most other armies would call it a tank Destroyer or Assault Gun, which by definition, it could also be.

So, is thing awesome piece of Modern Viking Hardware a tank or or assault gun? Depends what you want to do with it.

They're both wrong. Put a parachute on it and call it a drop tank.

[Murph]

They're both wrong. Put a parachute on it and call it a drop tank.

Is it a single stage drop tank if you fire the gun while it's descending?

[Curveball Anders]

So, is this thing awesome piece of Modern Viking Hardware

STRV 103, or S-tank, was quite awesome for it's role and time, but modern? The last unit was built in -71.

And the last unit was phased out of service mid 90:ies.

Replaced by a much more conventional (and German) Leopard 2.

[razark]

does this count as staging?

No. That's just redundancy and a successful Abort To Orbit.

Can you get to orbit with your craft, then deorbit it somehow.

...

If you need to replace anything but payload (and fuel), it's not SSTO.

It's Single Stage To Orbit. Not Single Stage To Orbit And Back.

They're both wrong. Put a parachute on it and call it a drop tank.

Parachutes? That's too easy.

[Tourist]

They're both wrong. Put a parachute on it and call it a drop tank.

This reminds me a bit of the debacle over the Swedish STRV series of vehicles

http://www.model-making.eu/zdjecia/2/8/0/1229_rd.jpg

What would you call this thing? - snip - But it may not fir their definition of the subject.

All you would need would be for the most fearsome Australian predator, the Drop-bear, to ride the gun of that "Drop-Tank" as it descends onto the battlefield and you would have the most frightening weapon invented since the invention of the A-bomb.

Nations would surrender at the mere threat of it being deployed. The Swedish/Aussie hegemony of the world would begin in ernest.

[Wanderfound]

Droptanks have uses besides fuel storage; without the tail tank installed, this one has twice the drag in FAR. Streamlined on the way up, draggy on the way down.

[Madrias]

It's not an SSTO, but if you're only dropping the tanks, it's two stages to orbit.

As someone said earlier: When it comes to SSTO's, if you have to ask if it is, it probably isn't.

[arq]

In the strictest sense, if you keep the tanks until you make orbit and drop them after then it is still an SSTO (Single Stage to Orbit). However, what most KSP players mean when they say "SSTO" is a ship that completes its entire mission (which may involve significant post-orbit travel) and returns home with everything it left with (except fuel).

However, the dry cost of tanks is dirt cheap and you can go much further if you can drop some along the way. From a getting-things-done perspective it is much better to shed stuff if you plan to leave LKO. Many players simply choose not to for the extra challenge.

I'm playing with a SSTO design that will carry a ship to orbit, undock that ship for an interplanetary mission, then return to the launcher on its way back to Kerbin. Not hauling those RAPIERS, wings, and empty tanks halfway across the Kerbol system is a huge savings.