The Ultimate Jool 5 Challenge - 1.0 to 1.3

[Yorou]

Can I get some advices on my failed attempt please?

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/137721-Jool-5-Challenge-%28Failed%29

Thanks

[juanml82]

Hi, I'm aiming at Jebediah's level. Two questions:

First, my mothership's docking ports got bugged (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/137665-SpaceY-docking-ports-don-t-connect-%28log-reads-Cannot-find-module-ModuleDockingNode-%29) in LKO. Can I use Hyperedit to put the same ship, in the same orbit, with the same fuel without having to send the mothership and the booster section back to LKO again? It's not cheating per se, I just put both things in orbit, refuelled one, tried to dock them and one of the ports isn't working.

Second, on the tanker to refuel in the Jool system, which I'll be sending just in case, does it count as Jeb level if I launch it with dry tanks, make a pit stop at Minmus to fill the tanks there and then send it straight to Jool?

[sdj64]

(spoilers)

http://i.imgur.com/TZi70MCl.jpg http://i.imgur.com/R2ZYoVRl.jpg

Craft files: http://kerbalx.com/XKerbal

I just finished my Jool 5 mission. The tanks in the second stage are ever so slightly clipped but only because I went for the flying saucer look. I could have rotated those first two stages to a standard vertical orientation and it would have improve things due to reduced drag.

This ship could have completed the mission without the refuel mission. The refuel gained me about 1500 m/s dv on the second stage... enough to do the braking burn at Jool on the mainsails instead of the nukes.

This is an older submission, but JebsDead got back to me with some clarifications that proved he was not cheating. Though it's 5 weeks old, JebsDead's entry is awarded a place as a Level 1 completion!

Mission completed. Ship mass 13.484

http://imgur.com/a/DSRh7

Game version: 1.0.4

Mods: Precision node, KER

The closer I look, the more I find that's amazing and perfectly executed. Great job, you are the new leader of the Low Mass leaderboard!

Some responses to questions and comments:

Jakalth, you had a unique and well designed mission. Sad to hear that your Kerbals were stranded on Laythe.

juanml82, since your mothership is not fully assembled I will make an exception, but provide screenshots of how they got there! If there is any part skipped using Hyperedit then you will be disqualified. For the refueling mission it doesn't matter where you got the fuel as long as there is no resource mining or refining equipment on the refueling vessel for Jeb's level.

origamiscienceguy, looking forward to seeing your mission! Don't be discouraged if you're new, the Jool 5 is one of the hardest missions in KSP and you will definitely learn a lot by trying it out.

In my own news, the Origin grand tour has run into a big setback: the ion lander burns up when returning from Moho, and there isn't enough fuel to avoid aerobraking. I hear 1.0.5 will bring some heating changes and maybe that will save the mission.

[Nefrums]

The closer I look, the more I find that's amazing and perfectly executed. Great job, you are the new leader of the Low Mass leaderboard!

Thanks!

It was fun trying to perfect those orbits and get cheep transfers between the moons.

[Starhawk]

I would like to submit my mission - JEM - Jool 5 The Hard Way for this challenge.

The entry is for 2nd Level.

- Which game versions did you use? 1.0.4

- What mods did you use, if any? Mods installed are listed in the mission report (linked in first line).

- How many Kerbals are on the mission? 3

- How many launches was needed to start your mission from Kerbal? 10

- How much did your mission cost? 1 317 593 funds.

- Did you need a refueling mission? Yes

- Did you bring a Living Quarter (Hitch-hiker's Storage or Passenger Cabins) for the guys during the long journey? No. (But they had the Tri-Flyer until leaving Laythe.)

- Did you bring additional stuff like satellites, rovers, etc? No

- Share the delta-V information too, if you tracked it! Please see report.

- Any additional note or description? Please see report.

The report is rather lengthy and split into several posts. I tried to make the walls o' text somewhat interesting to read.

There is rather thin documentation from some portions of the mission, most notably the launch of the original JEM mother ship (not even one pic). If necessary, I can refly that ascent (or other parts of the mission) in order to acquire more pics.

I will try to do the cost calculations later today. Done.

If you need anything more or have any questions please let me know.

Thanks! and...

Happy landings!

Edited November 17, 2015 by Starhawk
Added cost

[parzr]

3RD LEVEL: There's not enough time left for training one crew for all the moon landings, so five Kerbonauts go to the mission and each are trained to land on one moon and come back safely.

Is a scientist/engineer with autopilot enough to meet this qualification? they just tell the computer if its safe to land there in real time

[xiej]

Wait, can you use ISRU? I can't seem to figure that out.

[SpaceplaneAddict]

Wait, can you use ISRU? I can't seem to figure that out.

Yes. If you use ISRU, you will be judged in the ISRU category.

-SPAddict

ISRU's, are liars however.

[Redhornet919]

Why DMmagic???? it has no parts that could possibly help this challenge...

[sdj64]

Is a scientist/engineer with autopilot enough to meet this qualification? they just tell the computer if its safe to land there in real time

Yes. I never intended that rule to mean you need pilots, but a different Kerbal has to land on each moon.

Why DMmagic???? it has no parts that could possibly help this challenge...

DMagic adds more science experiments, which makes it impossible to score Jeb's level fairly. You can use it on any other level.

[Onieronaut]

Can anyone point me towards a good breakdown of how to enter the Jool system without expending huge amounts of delta V? My general sense is that by doing a few gravity assist maneuvers near the inner moons it should be possible to perform a Jool system capture relatively cheaply ... but I don't know the specifics, or how this would look in practice. What's a reasonable delta V to budget for arrival in the Jool system anyway? 2000 m/s? 500? I honestly have no idea.

I'm currently working on my first attempt at the Jool 5 challenge and I'm pretty happy with the hardware I've designed, but the weak link is my own piloting and navigation skill (or lack thereof). Any information about how to efficiently enter the Jool system, as well as how to efficiently transfer between moons, would be very much appreciated. I've seen people mention moon-to-moon transfers for like 50 m/s dV, and I don't really understand how that's possible when you're going all the way to the surface of each moon and back. Basically I'd hate to fail at the Jool 5 challenge just because I don't know how to steer my own damn ship, and I'm looking for anything which will help me navigate the Jool system intelligently.

[Jakalth]

Tylo, Lathe, Vall. Any of those three moons can give your ship nice gravity break to slow you down just enough to be captured, if you pass by them in just the right way. This all depends on your speed and how you enter the system. I basically just guessed at my entry and then burned for the rest, but I had the delta-V to throw around. And a craft that handled like a bus, with a broken steering wheel and three flat tires.(too many parts, too big, too impatient).

Using one of the moons, if you can find the right fly by, can get you captured into the system for only the cost of altering your initial encounter with the Jool system. After that, you'll still need to fiddle your way into a tighter orbit and/or get yourself captured with the Moon of your choice. Your initial orbit will most likely be a large one unless you can find the right spot to get multiple gravity breaks from more then one moon.

Otherwise, aerobreaking on Lathe is a good option. Jool can slow you down faster but is a much less forgiving aerobreak partner. Or even doing a combo of aerobreaking on Lathe and then a gravity capture off a second moon.

[kamekolossus]

Is Near Future Spacecraft permitted? It adds a few new command pods, engines, and fuel tanks, but other than that it doesn't do anything drastic. Sorry if this has already been answered :B

[Nefrums]

Can anyone point me towards a good breakdown of how to enter the Jool system without expending huge amounts of delta V?

A Tylo flyby will get you captured in the jool system for 0dV.

I usually do a tylo fly by followed by a aerobrake at Laythe, This lets me get into a Laythe orbit for 0dV.

Here is an example of how your path could look like: http://imgur.com/RNjrwJZ

The most important thing is to approach the moon from behind. ideally your ship should be traversing in the same direction as the moon when you intercept it.

When transfering between moons where aerocapture is not possible you should try to get your PE as close to the moon as possible. This will make the capture burn cheaper due to the oberth effect

A general tip is to not drag your entire mother ship down to low orbits of the big moons leave the big ship in high eliptic orbit and let your lander go to low orbit by itself, or use a tug. On Tylo it cost ~800 dv to get from high to low orbit, and as mush again to get back.

You should take a look at the mission reports linked in the first post of this thread. Most of them are full of examples of how to do this.

And get Precise Node. It makes all maneuvers so much easier.

[problemecium]

Not to hijack the thread, but I'm streaming my Jool-5 Challenge attempt - the maiden voyage of my giant interplanetary mothership, Kidonia - all day today as part of the Extra Life charity livestreaming event!

So if anyone's not busy watching KSPTV, please feel free to drop by to watch the mission and perhaps even donate

EDIT: Due to unforeseen delays and virtually no attendance (due to bad luck the Extra Life event was on the same day as KSPTV's big 1.0.5 streaming marathon), the voyage was postponed. See the main thread for details.

Edited November 15, 2015 by parameciumkid
update

[rocx]

After many, many hours in Kerbal Space Program I finally feel ready to take on one of the most beautiful challenges. The new parts in 1.0.5 give me the possibility to create something that was not possible before: a small refueling explorer! I present you the Fuzzy Lama, flown by star engineer kerbonaut Bill Kerman. I really like flying it, just 69 tons fully fueled, very easy to fly in the atmosphere and phenomenal range in space.

Part 1: Kerbal Space Center to Minmus:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Next parts will follow when I have time, probably in the weekend.

[sdj64]

My grand tour has made it to Jool! I thought I'd take a look at my past Jool 5's for a bit of nostalgia now (this will be the fourth time...), guess I've always been a fan of big front-mounted heatshields even before heat was in the game! It goes to show how far KSP has come. Unfortunately I forgot to check, but November 7 was the 2 year anniversary of the Jool-5 Challenge! This challenge has been here all this time and has been probably my single biggest source of inspiration in KSP, so keep it up, everyone! Keep contributing and being awesome!

The ships and the locations look so similar compared with KSP 0.25:

In KSP 0.23:

[Starhawk]

I finally added up my mission cost and edited it into [URL="http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/123950-THE-ULTIMATE-JOOL-5-CHALLENGE-Continuation-for-KSP-1-0%21?p=2277234&viewfull=1#post2277234"]my submission post[/URL].

Happy landings!

[Right]

So the Level 1 Low-Mass Sub-Challenge is stock only, right?

[iLikeRovers]

[URL="http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/123950-THE-ULTIMATE-JOOL-5-CHALLENGE-Continuation-for-KSP-1-0%21?p=1988118&viewfull=1#post1988118"][QUOTE]1ST LEVEL: one Kerbonaut lands on all the moons and come back safely.
-> Level 1 Low-Mass Sub-Challenge: Using [B]only stock parts and physics[/B], try to minimize the mass of your ship and still accomplish the mission![/QUOTE][/URL]

Hope that's clear for you, I look forwards to what you come up with!

[problemecium]

[quote name='sdj64']8. On all of the landings, the Kerbal must be able to get out and walk (or swim!) around on the surface.[/QUOTE]

Reading this has suddenly made me concerned too, so now just to check:
- Does using the EVA pack count? I could have sworn someone's asked about this already but I couldn't find anything about it xP I mean as in climbing out the hatch, plummeting to the ground, then jetpacking back up to where the hatch is.
- Does the "clamber" functionality have any relevance? As in, if for example I derped with the ladders (or lack thereof), but my Kerbal can climb up the side of the ship like a BadS, it's fine, right?

[sdj64]

[quote name='Starhawk']I finally added up my mission cost and edited it into [URL="http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/123950-THE-ULTIMATE-JOOL-5-CHALLENGE-Continuation-for-KSP-1-0%21?p=2277234&viewfull=1#post2277234"]my submission post[/URL].

Happy landings![/QUOTE]
Hi Starhawk, sorry I forgot to review your submission when you finished. I took a good look at it today and unfortunately your refueling mission is not allowed to become a replacement mothership. The rules are not really clear though so I'll add you in level 2.

I am also adding this line to the refueling mission rule so it's more clear in the future: "The refueling mission may only transfer resources, not parts, to your Jool-5 craft"

[quote name='parameciumkid']Reading this has suddenly made me concerned too, so now just to check:
- Does using the EVA pack count? I could have sworn someone's asked about this already but I couldn't find anything about it xP I mean as in climbing out the hatch, plummeting to the ground, then jetpacking back up to where the hatch is.
- Does the "clamber" functionality have any relevance? As in, if for example I derped with the ladders (or lack thereof), but my Kerbal can climb up the side of the ship like a BadS, it's fine, right?[/QUOTE]

Both jetpack and climbing are fine, yes. It just means they have to be able to be on the surface! How they get back to the pod is none of my business unless you're using hack gravity (don't use hack gravity). You should be able to plant a flag unless you land in the water on Laythe.

[Starhawk]

[quote name='sdj64']Hi Starhawk, sorry I forgot to review your submission when you finished. I took a good look at it today and unfortunately your refueling mission is not allowed to become a replacement mothership. The rules are not really clear though so I'll add you in level 2.[/QUOTE]

To be fair, I thought that might be an issue. I reread the rules and couldn't see for sure if it was a problem or not. I'm afraid I was getting a bit impatient to complete the mission and altered my original plan.

Thanks for taking a look and being flexible. It was a very fun mission and it's a great challenge.

Thank you.

Happy landings!

ETA: And, yes, it was 1.0.4. Edited November 18, 2015 by Starhawk

[HoloYolo]

Should I do this? After returning the biggest thing I have done was a Mun base.
Also, is refueling with STOCK parts in a normal category or a sub-category? IMO, it should count as a regular category.

[CommanderSpock]

Is tweakscale okay?