Good cost baseline to go the Mun?

[Box of Stardust]

As of right now, my Munar rockets cost 85-95k in terms of cost. The lander I use costs 20k (included in the cost), but I get the entire thing back down in one piece. I have Stage Recovery installed, so it gets me my ascent stage engines back at least, but not the fuel tanks. Overall, I get about 30-40k in refunded cost.

Is this close to a decent per-mission cost? Or is it possible to build cheaper rockets?

Edited June 10, 2015 by Box of Stardust

[AndrewBCrisp]

Hm. Currently my Munar probes and kerballed orbiter missions would cost in the 25-30 k range, so for a Kerballed lander and return mission to the Mun, 85 k sounds about right. I'm assuming it's just a single Kerbal pod, and not an Apollo-style mission?

[Box of Stardust]

Actually, two pods, but not an Apollo-style.

[Superfluous J]

That's like asking "What's a good apartment cost in Chicago?" There are about 1000 different answers and they all depend on your needs and limits.

I can land on Mun for 15k. I can land on Mun for 1.5 million. It all depends on what I'm doing when I get there (or on the way).

[NASAHireMe]

It's definitely possible to build cheaper rockets, but that's definitely a good price range to be in. Looking at my fleet of three Mun crafts, they range from 58k to 99k, but they also vary quite a bit in size and capability.

From one KSPer to another, don't worry too much about going below 70k. You'll waste a lot of time and effort optimizing a design. On the other hand, no mission should ever cost more than a few hundred k. If you're exceeding 300k, you're doing something wrong.

[SAI Peregrinus]

If you're exceeding 300k, you're doing something wrong.

Or you're Whackjob in career doing a Grand Tour, completing all the missions in one go and visiting everything.

[Kryxal]

I have a single-Kerbal Mun lander for about 30k, and a 5-Kerbal tourist lander for 75k ... it does really depend. Just remember not to trim your delta-v budgets until you know you can get the job done, I had to send a rescue mission when I didn't allot QUITE enough fuel for the last stage...

[Mic_n]

My current SSTO launcher (will get a redesign once I open up more tech tree) will land a single Kerbal with basic science gear on the Mun or Minmus and get him back for around 17-18k. Actually, a little less come to think of it, I've redesigned things a bit since the mission where I worked that one out... Yeah, I'd say planting a flag, grabbing a soil sample and bringing it home for 15k is doable.

[Box of Stardust]

Okay, considering I'm at a Career point where I don't have anything 160+ Science point nodes are unlocked, that's currently my status. So I can't build any fancy SSTOs yet nor have access to Mainsails. How much higher tech will improve cost, not sure.

The net cost of a mission is somewhere around 50k.

It would probably help if I wasn't using a 20t (loaded) lander though...

[Warzouz]

I've designed SSTO rockets : http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/123195-Cygnus-family-Recoverable-SSTO-Rockets-from-12-to-236-tons

My 26T lifter would coust you 550 fund / payload ton (to LKO) - not counting the payload. If it's too high tech you can design something identical, it's quite easy to create and to fly...

[Mic_n]

egad, a 20t lander? "Well there's yer problem!" My entire transfer stage plus lander/return is 9t, and even that could use some pretty serious optimising.

Without the turboramjet, your possible savings are more limited, because you'll need to rely on more rocket boost to get you up into orbit. I'd suggest though to take a good look at a first stage of turbojets. Those things can generate huge amounts of thrust very cheaply in the lower atmosphere, and when they give out at around 8-10km, just stage them off (shut them down first! bind it to an action group - use the abort group or something if you don't have custom ones yet) From there, you're already a fair way up out of the draggiest part of the atmosphere, and with some good speed. Don't worry about "spaceplane", just think of them like rather weird rocket engines.

Again though, grab the stagerecovery mod and slap some chutes to them to make sure you get proper credit for a re-usable stage. Otherwise, just slap some solid fuel boosters on it and away you go.

[Wanderfound]

As of right now, my Munar rockets cost 85-95k in terms of cost. The lander I use costs 20k (included in the cost), but I get the entire thing back down in one piece. I have Stage Recovery installed, so it gets me my ascent stage engines back at least, but not the fuel tanks. Overall, I get about 30-40k in refunded cost.

Is this close to a decent per-mission cost? Or is it possible to build cheaper rockets?

That's very much on the high side for a Muntripper. A budget version for me would be under √30,000; a "luxury" version about twice that.

Shave your payload weight. A sensibly sized munlander doesn't need more than a single LV-909 for an engine, and if you take a scientist as crew (easy to do, just stick a probe core in the service bay for SAS) you only ever need one of each science gizmo.

[Feradose]

In my function over form designs, I can reach moons SOI with the cost of an aero cone, the cheapest probe, a kickback and three fins.

[Prepper-Jack]

Heh - my highest cost Mun mission was around 500k. But, it was pretty cost effective as I collected data from all biomes and completed about 11 missions while I was there. Basically the transfer stage was a rather large fuel depot that I stuck in a polar orbit. Think it's still sitting there with a few drops left.

It's only costly if you can make a cheaper alternative to do the same thing.

[Mic_n]

for 500k you could run 25 individual 20k missions.

There are 15 biomes on the Mun.

That's 10 missions to play Mun golf.

[Prepper-Jack]

for 500k you could run 25 individual 20k missions.

There are 15 biomes on the Mun.

That's 10 missions to play Mun golf.

Considering a full complement of science equipment, even excluding non-applicable stuff for the Mun, plus capsule costs more than that, I would wonder what I would do on those 25 missions - collect eva reports and surface samples only?

[Wanderfound]

Considering a full complement of science equipment, even excluding non-applicable stuff for the Mun, plus capsule costs more than that, I would wonder what I would do on those 25 missions - collect eva reports and surface samples only?

If I'm early enough in the game to still be bothering with the Mun, typically the only science gear unlocked is Goo, Science Jr, Thermometer and maybe Barometer. Those alone are enough to pull over 1,000 science from a single Minmus visit.

Edited June 11, 2015 by Wanderfound

[Warzouz]

Quickest way to collect science from minmus is to send a refueler/mini space station and a very light lander (dV = 1000m/s). Add a prob core and put a scientist in it. Refueling would be half an orange tank

Put the station in equatorial** and drop the lander. Do 2 more hop in different biomes. Refuel and start over twice. Then go back home or use a science lab.

You get more than 4000 science.

For the mun, you can do the same, but the lander should have 2000m/s of dV (not to refuel too often) and the refueler should be in polar orbit and a full orange tank.

With few trips to KSC and Kerbin countryside, you largely unlock all the science tree.

** Polar orbit would be more efficient but I find the equatorial view nicer, and woul would always have to land 3 times (or pack a bigger lander).

[Mic_n]

I have a lab in minmus orbit (was a contract), equatorial 50x50. It's entirely possible to go from the surface up to it with nothing but an EVA pack and some careful thrusting.. and it refuels itself every time you eva. Not sure I could do the return trip though, so you'd still need something on the ground to refuel from, which kinda defeats the purpose, I guess.

And Prepper-jack, if you recover the science gear (ie return your lander), then it doesn't cost a cent, just the fuel. That's where those figures come from. I've happily launched "mun science" (as wanderfound describes: goo, junior, thermometer and barometer + samples/crew reports/eva) that had a turnaround cost less than 18k, and I know I could have done it cheaper.

It's cool that you've done all that in one mission, and I have no doubt it was a lot of fun and I'm happy that you obviously enjoyed achieving it.. I'm just saying that 500k is actually a pretty sizable chunk of change to do it with, is all. Fortunately unless you're really pushing yourself difficulty-wise, cash usually isn't really that big a deal.. but if the OP is after a "baseline cost"... half a mil is a long way up there...

[Prepper-Jack]

And Prepper-jack, if you recover the science gear (ie return your lander), then it doesn't cost a cent, just the fuel. That's where those figures come from. I've happily launched "mun science" (as wanderfound describes: goo, junior, thermometer and barometer + samples/crew reports/eva) that had a turnaround cost less than 18k, and I know I could have done it cheaper.

It's cool that you've done all that in one mission, and I have no doubt it was a lot of fun and I'm happy that you obviously enjoyed achieving it.. I'm just saying that 500k is actually a pretty sizable chunk of change to do it with, is all. Fortunately unless you're really pushing yourself difficulty-wise, cash usually isn't really that big a deal.. but if the OP is after a "baseline cost"... half a mil is a long way up there...

And my point is that baseline cost is going to vary with what you want to do on your Munar mission. The costs can only be judged in terms of what they accomplished. "Bang for the buck" as it were.

In my example, what I did was pretty cost effective for my particular needs, even though it had a substantial up-front cost. I got 80-90 landings out of the deal, obtained over 2 million in contract funds, completed the Mun as far as science goes, and have the core of a fuel base with 20k LF and 20k Ox space sitting in a low equatorial orbit - awaiting further attachments and fuel deliveries from my eventual highland crater mining operation (I can't mine Minmus - it's hard mode, and it only has small amounts of ore in the slopes). If it wasn't for the fuel depot requirement I could have opted for a polar orbit (I moved it in the end), and performed the same task (well - perhaps with less missions) with a single big red tank at a much reduced cost - or many, many more missions with what I decided on.

If your intent is only to complete missions, most can be done with probes. A simple one with a single experiment (therm, seis, etc), can last 4-5+ missions (that include surface data) easy for around 20-25k, and net you many hundreds in profit. If you need to do EVA and surface scans, well - to knock it out in one hit, you need a fairly substantial lander, as those require landing once and hopping 3-4 more times. If you're carrying any science equipment at all, this is usually more than double the cost of a good probe.

If your intent is to solely collect biome data, that's a sunk cost as you aren't getting a return on it. Nevertheless, a small polar fuel base option ends up being quite the bang for the buck if you want to go that route. All Munar science can be had for around 150k with a decent design - or around 10k per biome.

Building an entire mission over landing a single time, just so you can be as cheap as possible, ends up being cost (and time) inefficient. Better to build a more robust solution, and get some returns on investment along the way.

Edited June 11, 2015 by Prepper-Jack