[1.8.1] ETT - Engineering Tech Tree - May 4, 2020

[Flef]

I started a career on ETT this weekend. I make a small feedback on my first impressions.

Great tree actually.

I made a start based on probes with Remote tech. I encounter a major difficulty to reach the first dishes of remote tech and the KER calculator.

I need to reach the Mun at least to gather enough science points with my probes quickly, while it is rather hard to do without a dish in the node at 50 science points.

I could do some biome science harvesting but I would need a network of satellite orbiting Kerbin to make sure I do not lose the communication to the KSC during the descent (which would be catastrophic). For this I need a precise orbital period indication (at the 1/100 second or so) to synchronize the satellites. The KER calculator is the only option I know but ... 95 science points to unlock xD. Not a tremendous amount of science points but I would need to go to the Mun and/or minmus. Which is bringing us back to the needed dishes.

And I also need some few extra components like the Stabilisation node (25 points for a shaped winglet while 15 for probes or 1 for basic rocketry) and the LVT45 engine to stabilize my rockets enough (like a dart) to escape the atmosphere and/or orbit, fairings... that kind of things... which totalizes quite a lot of science points at start if I can't really go to the Mün and bring back science.

But if I play a bit less "Role play" I put a cockpit (15 points node, act as a Pod in space) on top of a rocket and I go a lot further than with unmanned probes xD and bringing more science through eva report and sensors while on ground than with probes with sensors. This part of the tree is a bit unbalanced imo.

the whole unmanned tech is requiring more science while it gather less and requiring more endeavour. I believe a bit of balancing for the start wouldn't hurt.

And as said before, great tree. The logic of the tree is very nice. It is always a dilemma to choose the nodes for what I experienced and that's great.

[Kermen]

This is cool, but is there a way to hide nodes which don't unlock any parts and aren't a prerequisite for any future nodes which do? For example, I don't have any mods installed which have parts anywhere in the antimatter, interstellar travel, 5m, 7.5m, 10m rocketry, habitation/colonization, or robotics branches, and there's still quite a few end nodes without anything in them (launch clamps 3, for example). So basically half the nodes do nothing. Is there a way to hide them?

Edit: I just deleted the unused nodes in the config file, but I would suggest that in a future version of this mod, such nodes not be displayed by default.

Edited July 29, 2015 by Kermen

[Flef]

I installed AIES and the tree was a lot easier for probes with remote tech. Is it possible to add a recommendation for "probe start + remote tech --> install AIES"?

[Probus]

I started a career on ETT this weekend. I make a small feedback on my first impressions.

Great tree actually.

I made a start based on probes with Remote tech. I encounter a major difficulty to reach the first dishes of remote tech and the KER calculator.

I need to reach the Mun at least to gather enough science points with my probes quickly, while it is rather hard to do without a dish in the node at 50 science points.

I could do some biome science harvesting but I would need a network of satellite orbiting Kerbin to make sure I do not lose the communication to the KSC during the descent (which would be catastrophic). For this I need a precise orbital period indication (at the 1/100 second or so) to synchronize the satellites. The KER calculator is the only option I know but ... 95 science points to unlock xD. Not a tremendous amount of science points but I would need to go to the Mun and/or minmus. Which is bringing us back to the needed dishes.

And I also need some few extra components like the Stabilisation node (25 points for a shaped winglet while 15 for probes or 1 for basic rocketry) and the LVT45 engine to stabilize my rockets enough (like a dart) to escape the atmosphere and/or orbit, fairings... that kind of things... which totalizes quite a lot of science points at start if I can't really go to the Mün and bring back science.

But if I play a bit less "Role play" I put a cockpit (15 points node, act as a Pod in space) on top of a rocket and I go a lot further than with unmanned probes xD and bringing more science through eva report and sensors while on ground than with probes with sensors. This part of the tree is a bit unbalanced imo.

the whole unmanned tech is requiring more science while it gather less and requiring more endeavour. I believe a bit of balancing for the start wouldn't hurt.

And as said before, great tree. The logic of the tree is very nice. It is always a dilemma to choose the nodes for what I experienced and that's great.

Wow! Thanks for the great feedback. I will implement your suggestions ASAP. As you can tell, I really, really need a good flight testing collaborator, hint, hint.

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This is cool, but is there a way to hide nodes which don't unlock any parts and aren't a prerequisite for any future nodes which do? For example, I don't have any mods installed which have parts anywhere in the antimatter, interstellar travel, 5m, 7.5m, 10m rocketry, habitation/colonization, or robotics branches, and there's still quite a few end nodes without anything in them (launch clamps 3, for example). So basically half the nodes do nothing. Is there a way to hide them?

Edit: I just deleted the unused nodes in the config file, but I would suggest that in a future version of this mod, such nodes not be displayed by default.

Yes, I plan on setting that up by default soon. While I am still actively adding a lot of parts, it makes it a bit tricky. I may add a dummy parts pack to populate all the empty/hidden nodes while I'm working on it and then when I release the ETT.cfg it will hide those nodes for the player.

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I installed AIES and the tree was a lot easier for probes with remote tech. Is it possible to add a recommendation for "probe start + remote tech --> install AIES"?

Yessir. I will do that. I am also talking to a contributor about adding an AIES patch for 1.0.4 to CKAN until Carmics is able to do the proper update. AIES is such a beautiful parts pack.

[Flef]

Yessir. I will do that. I am also talking to a contributor about adding an AIES patch for 1.0.4 to CKAN until Carmics is able to do the proper update. AIES is such a beautiful parts pack.

Yes it is

As you can tell, I really, really need a good flight testing collaborator, hint, hint

I'll try to post some feedbacks. I use AIES interstellar and remote tech and also a few extra stuff like the bahamuto parts (critter crawler :love:) for landertron, smart parts etc...

Edited July 30, 2015 by Flef

[Dr. Jet]

I like how the progression is done in this tree. Currently playing career with 30% money and 20% science. Was hard at start, but became much easier when I reached the Mun. Nice balancing!

Any chances that NF: Propulsion, NF:Electrical and NF:Spacecraft will be added? Already supported NF:Solar is the least useful of NF packs.

[Probus]

I like how the progression is done in this tree. Currently playing career with 30% money and 20% science. Was hard at start, but became much easier when I reached the Mun. Nice balancing!

Any chances that NF: Propulsion, NF:Electrical and NF:Spacecraft will be added? Already supported NF:Solar is the least useful of NF packs.

Wow Dr. Jet - that is impressive! I put those NF items on my list of parts to add. In the meantime, here is what has been added since the last release:

ALCOR

Asteroid Day

Aviation Lights

KAX

KSPX

Stockalike Parts for Useful Esthetics

[minepagan]

Any chance of the MRS Suite getting support? IE SpaceY, MRS (duh.), FTP, ect.

[Dr. Jet]

Some notes:

1) You are using NEEDS[zETT] in most MM configs, but CKAN installs your mod in GameData/ETT and ModuleManager sees your mod as "ETT", not "zETT". It either wants ANOTHER mod, not mentioned as dependency or won't work at all.

2) You assume that players use MechJeb control box part to achieve MJ functionality. That's a rare case. Most people use MM patches like "MechJeb4All" to add MJ functionality to pods and probe cores. You probably should use that MM patch as @PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[MechJebCore]]:FINAL.

3) MJ Ascent guidance is too deep in tree. First ballistic rocket - german V-2 already had a primitive gyroscope-based "ascent guidance" BEFORE transistors were invented, not speaking of microchips.

4) MJ Maneuver planner is too shallow in tree. Calculating complicated maneuvers needs LOTS of computing power, early onboard electronics couldn't handle it.

... there are more MJ-related notes... maybe, I should just propose more realistic MJ tier separation?

[table]

[tr]

[td]Tier[/td]

[td]draft name[/td]

[td]Technology Used[/td]

[td]MJ Submodules[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]1[/td]

[td]Basic automation[/td]

[td]gyroscope, primitive analogous PID, timer, timed command sequencer[/td]

[td]Ascent Guidance, Warp Helper[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]2[/td]

[td]Orientation systems[/td]

[td]better gyroscope, better analogous PID, acceleration sensors[/td]

[td]SASS, Translatron[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]3[/td]

[td]Advanced orientation systems[/td]

[td]radiocompass, radioaltimeter, early digital PID[/td]

[td]Landing Guidance, AttitudeAdjustment (changing PID settings in flight), Spaceplane Guidance^*[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]4[/td]

[td]Onboard Computers[/td]

[td]self-explaining[/td]

[td]Maneuver Planner^**, Rendezvous Planner, Rover Autopilot^***[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]5[/td]

[td]Precise Maneuvers[/td]

[td]precise sensors and better computers[/td]

[td]Rendezvous Autopilot, Docking Autopilot, RCSBalancer[/td]

[/tr]

[/table]

^*: Spaceplane Guidance should be tier 5 because of complexity of task, but it works so bad (crashes when trying to auto-land and is used mostly as radiocompass for manual landing) that it is barely tier 3.

^**: MechJeb doesn't allow to separate different maneuvers by submodules in current MJ version, so we assume that ANY onboard computer will be able to calculate them. When travelling to outer planets - plus-minus 1000km is still a hit.

^***: Before compact enough computers were invented, early rovers like soviet Lunohod were piloted directly - by radio.

Edited August 2, 2015 by Dr. Jet

[Probus]

Any chance of the MRS Suite getting support? IE SpaceY, MRS (duh.), FTP, ect.

MRS and SpaceY are already supported. Check page one for a list of tested parts packs. Is FTP = Near Future Propulsion?

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Some notes:

Awesome feedback Dr. Jet! Right now, the first time you unlock MechJeb, you unlock all the functionality. I will implement your suggestions and if I get stuck I will chat with Sarbian (or yourself).

[Kiro]

This is a great mod, amazing work!

I'm starting a new save game now and will definitely be using this tree.

I was hoping to use the "Chaka Monkey Exploration Systems" mod, but that mod needs a good techtree update. Please add that to your list of mods if you can.

Thanks again!

[minepagan]

FTP = Fuel Tanks Plus. Basically, all of the Necrobones' suite is what I'm asking for, although you already have 2 of them (didn't see them), and only 2 of the rest are Parts Packs.

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Also, is it possible to use just KAX? Or are there some FS parts that unlock first, and are badly needed?

Edited August 3, 2015 by minepagan
Never mind.....

[legacynl]

Why does AIES need a hotfix? And how would I apply this hotfix?

Also, great tree man. I hated the tier system in stock. Now I use my hard earned science to ONLY unlock the things I desperately need, it makes for much slower but more deliberate progress. I love it.

[Probus]

I was hoping to use the "Chaka Monkey Exploration Systems" mod, but that mod needs a good techtree update. Please add that to your list of mods if you can.

Added Chaka to the update queue (I have another tree in work that will feature Chaka's work in a different way. You'll love it.)

- - - Updated - - -

FTP = Fuel Tanks Plus. Basically, all of the Necrobones' suite is what I'm asking for, although you already have 2 of them (didn't see them), and only 2 of the rest are Parts Packs.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, is it possible to use just KAX? Or are there some FS parts that unlock first, and are badly needed?

Added all of Necrobones mods to the update queue. I love his work too.

As far as KAX only, if you wouldn't mind play-testing that option for me, I would like to know if it is possible myself. I think it is possible, but not sure.

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Why does AIES need a hotfix? And how would I apply this hotfix?

It doesn't since Carmics is back (YAY!!!). But as a disclaimer, I haven't tested the 1.6.0 version yet. So I might need to move some of the updated AIES parts back to where they are supposed to go.

I am going to work on Dr. Jet's suggestion's this weekend, God willing. There are a couple of anomilies that should get fixed with his instructions.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Probus

[SickSix]

Is there a way to install this and not have it applied to current save files? I want to start a new game with this so I can do a flight first but would like to keep my main save how it is.

[Caithloki]

I only seem to have two antenas unlocked at start, the reflectron and aeis comtech, I don't have the ability to do anything because there is no other parts. Can someone assist.

Nevermind, I do not know what I did wrong, (might be because I just extracted all the working mods in the list at once) but the issue is now resolved.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Caithloki

[minepagan]

BTW, you cannot do just KAX. At least for me, you do not unlock anything until jets.

[Jaimy-Ni]

Hi,Probus

Great work,your Mod makes the game more realistic

There is a problem with procedural Fairings . I've Researched "4m Fairings" which enables the fairings t be upgraded to 4m size

but the fairing base does not exceed 1.5 meters .. I can't us procedural fairings for 2.5m rockets or 3.75m rockets

Thanks again for the mod .. hope there is a solution for this problem

[Caithloki]

Would this work with Kolonization by Rover Dude and have the parts just randomly dispersed or would they not show up?

[Acemcbean]

Probus, you have only partially implemented the Procedural Fairings "Interstage Fairing." You have one unlock node that only maxes out at 1.5m, and I cannot seem to find any other upgrade nodes.

[Probus]

Hi,Probus

Great work,your Mod makes the game more realistic

There is a problem with procedural Fairings . I've Researched "4m Fairings" which enables the fairings t be upgraded to 4m size

but the fairing base does not exceed 1.5 meters .. I can't us procedural fairings for 2.5m rockets or 3.75m rockets

I'm on it. I am planning on working this issue this weekend. Thanks a bunch for the feedback!

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Would this work with Kolonization by Rover Dude and have the parts just randomly dispersed or would they not show up?

Hmmm... That part pack was partially implemented last year. I haven't tried it with the re-release. I was planning on doing the Habitat Pack by Porkjet first, before I go over RoverDude's great mod again. I will add OKS/MKS back on the list (if it isn't there already).

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Probus, you have only partially implemented the Procedural Fairings "Interstage Fairing." You have one unlock node that only maxes out at 1.5m, and I cannot seem to find any other upgrade nodes.

I noticed the same thing. So did Jaimy-Ni. I will see if I can figure out what changed in MM.

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Is there a way to install this and not have it applied to current save files? I want to start a new game with this so I can do a flight first but would like to keep my main save how it is.

You will have to make a copy of your install directory. It will affect any career save you have in your original directory.

[Probus]

Changelog August 9th, 2015 1.0.1 20150809

Added Part Packs:

Near Future: Electrical

Fuel Tanks Plus

Habitat Pack by Porkjet

Lithobrake Exploration Technologies

Added Node:

"Resource Exploitation" to the end of the node resource branch.

Fixed Procedural Fairings upgrade nodes. Yay! What a difference 1 character makes.

[FreeThinker]

Say I noticed you added support for KSPI-E, Great however, you seem to have missed the fact that many reactor parts now how 3 techlevels instead of 2. This means reactors will not achieve their maximum potential.

I also noticed some parts are missing, like the VASIMR

Also, still any problem with KSPI-E adding CETI Nodes? If you want, I can disable them if ETT is installed . All you need to do is ask.

Edited August 11, 2015 by FreeThinker

[Probus]

Say I noticed you added support for KSPI-E, Great however, you seem to have missed the fact that many reactor parts now how 3 techlevels instead of 2. This means reactors will not achieve their maximum potential.

I also noticed some parts are missing, like the VASIMR

Also, still any problem with KSPI-E adding CETI Nodes? If you want, I can disable them if ETT is installed . All you need to do is ask.

You're right. I hadn't noticed. I will update ETT this weekend and let you know about adding nodes. I don't think it will matter, but I will double check.

[Bomber_man_sam]

Is anyone else having trouble installing this through CKAN? When I check the install box it won't let me click "go to changes" to download and install it.

EDIT: I found it was conflicting with community tech tree. I deleted that and now it works fine.

Edited August 15, 2015 by Bomber_man_sam