A Little Stuck

[CaptainApollo]

Hello everyone! In my main career mode profile, I am a little bit stuck. I just completed my first orbit and I am doing a few contracts, but would very much like to land on Minmus. However, I cannot get enough science, and was wondering if someone knew a good way to get science in order to unlock parts. Thank you!

Edited June 11, 2015 by CaptainApollo

[cybersol]

Can you give us a little more information about where you are stuck? Hmm, have you exploitedexplored the KSC and the areas immediately around it? Have you unlocked EVA, surface samples, and more science instruments?

I was away from KSP for quite a while, so my first science gathering was in version 0.90. To figure out what I was missing, I personally found the Science Alert mod to be very handy to show me whats available. Also, the Science page on the wiki is actually really informative.

[CaptainApollo]

I have unlocked EVA and a few science instruments, the most recent ones were the satellite, the heat measuring devices and the big antenna. But no surface samples yet, I do not have enough funds to upgrade the R and D center. What areas are you talking about?

I will check out the science page on the wiki, I'm not sure I want to use mods yet. Thanks!

[DeMatt]

If you've only just orbited Kerbin, going directly for a landing (even on Minmus) is a very ambitious jump. Try doing flybys and orbits of Mun and Minmus first. That'll give you science from low and high orbits, as well as a better feel for how big a rocket you need to get all the way there and back.

[cybersol]

It's hard to unknow this, so I will put it in spoiler tags:

First, there are four or more surface biomes within a stones throw of the KSC (Shores/Grasslands/Water/Tundra). But secondly, have you noticed how you can get science on the launchpad by name? Have you explored the crawlerway or the other KSC buildings yet? There might even be more to find in various sub-parts of each of the buildings. Plus the buildings do change and grow as you upgrade them.

EDIT: If you have EVAs, low polar orbits around Mun and Minmus can make tons of science without ever landing. Wow 5 times Ninja while making this edit, see Snark below.

Edited June 11, 2015 by cybersol

[CaptainApollo]

Manned or unmanned? That sounds interesting, and the highest engines I have are the Swivel and Terrier, is this even enough?

And Cybersol, that sounds very interesting. I have not been to Tundra yet, and the exploring of the KSC buildings sounds interesting, I may attempt that tomorrow!

[Snark]

Visit all the buildings around KSC, each is its own biome and you can pull quite a bit of science out of it. A simple rover will do the trick. (If rover wheels are too far down the tech tree, you can make a poor-man's lander by putting a little rocket engine on something that's sitting on aircraft landing gear.) EVA + crew report + each instrument, times every building in KSC, adds up.

EVA counts as a separate science result for every biome you're orbiting over, so a single orbital mission can net you a lot of science. Hop out, EVA, wait until you're over the next biome, repeat.

"High space" counts as a separate location from "low space", so you can get another chunk of science by lobbing something up above 300 km. (Doesn't have to orbit, suborbital will do.) If you already can orbit, then you can easily get that high.

If you've unlocked any probe cores, and you have enough dV to put a manned ship in orbit, then you can probably muster the dV to send an automated ship on a Mun flyby... moar science!

[Vanamonde]

You can get a fair amount of science by taking readings during fly-bys of Mun and Minmus without landing. There are two biomes where readings can be taken: "space near" and "high above." Some instruments will also take readings while "flying over [name of surface biome], but not all instruments. I would give you the cut-off altitudes for those, but they were changed recently and I'm not sure where they are now. Also, you can send a probe to just peak out of Kerbin's SOI for science "high above the sun," and then hop back and return.

[Snark]

Manned or unmanned? That sounds interesting, and the highest engines I have are the Swivel and Terrier, is this even enough?

Swivel + Terrier is all you need for a long time. You can go really far with a Thumper 1st stage, then a Swivel on top of that, then a Terrier 3rd stage. Those are really versatile engines and they're plenty for exploring the Mun and Minmus.

[MarvinKitFox]

... I just completed my first orbit.....I have unlocked EVA

Right there is the magical combo!

Put a manned vehicle in low orbit around any body. Now Eva out, and and do an EVA REPORT.

Note that the report is specific to the biome you are orbiting over.

re-enter the pod to store, or right-click the pod and deposit the report.

Repeat for each biome!

This works better if you have a polar orbit, as there are bits (Icecap, tundra) that are mostly found at the poles.

Kerbin alone has 9 distinct biomes, not counting the fiddly semi-biomes of the spaceport.

Also strongly consider investing in the ability to surface sample.

Then whenever at the end of a mission you land in some interesting new terrain, you can not only do a crew report from the pod, but also an eva report from the surface, *and* bring a sample of the surface along for study. Science Science Science!

Also Also..

remember that each science type can potentially be done in each situation. So measure on the ground at launchpad. Measure on the ground after mission. Measure in the water. Measure in high orbit, and low orbit, and flying high, and flying low.

Admittedly it is a bit tricksy doing an eva report while flying through the clouds at mach 3, but imagine the science if you manage to pull it off!

Edited June 11, 2015 by MarvinKitFox

[CaptainApollo]

Wow, that sounds great then, I thought you needed something more, this is welcome news!

I read about that biome thing on the wiki, it seems like a good idea. I may want to do that, go very high up; I heard you can achieve it by heading straight up with a lot of thrust.

I will do this with the buildings, poor man's rover seems more acceptable for me right now. So EVA, crew report and experiment. Got it. Will make Bob do it, he's the best with science. I did a bit of this with multiple biomes, and I would like to get to the poles, but I am having some trouble. I can orbit, so I will do that too! I may do a flyby!

I have only been EVA over 4 biomes, I suppose there are a few more, specifically in the poles! That is what I said earlier, how can I do a polar orbit?

I will keep this 'Unanswered' for now, as I love the ideas! Thanks everyone!

[MarvinKitFox]

how can I do a polar orbit?

Polar orbit: the basics.

Firstly, polar is a bit more work. Build your rocket to be about 10% more oomph than for a basic west-east orbit. (the planet's spin helps on an eastern launch, does not help for north)

When launching, launch in the normal curve, but instead of heading to the east(90 degrees), aim just west of north. Say about 4-5 degrees west of north. Keep to this heading until your navball switches itself to "orbit" mode at about 35000m, then adjust the aim to true north.

As for the biomes.. Most are obvious, but two are sneaky.

You can find Tundra at the edge between icecap and grassland, in odd blotches. Not very large.

You can also find tundra between shore and grassland! In very tiny little strips. There is a patch of tundra near KSC even.

And don't forget about the Badlands. These are the very broken-up terrain on the far side of the planet from the launch site, surrounded and interspersed with highlands and some mountains.

[CaptainApollo]

Ok, very interesting. I will find these biomes, I will try for the ones near KSC. I have seen the badlands, I will try for a landing there too!

I'll try the polar orbit tomorrow, it may take a bit more work though, but it will be worth it! Thank you!

[cybersol]

The good thing about polar orbits is that as the planet spins under you, you will eventually be over every part of the planets surface.

Polar orbit around Mun or Minmus is also only slightly harder than a normal orbit. It also costs almost nothing if you set it up at the right spot. The best spot for it is usually about halfway between Kerbin and the other body (a mid-course correction). There you can do a small normal or anti-normal burn to put you above or below the relevant moon right as you get there. You might need to add a slight prograde or retrograde component to get the right timing to be just above or below the planet as it arrives there.

[CaptainApollo]

That is true, what a good bonus, this makes me even more determined! I suppose it is a bit harder, I may try that in the future. Thanks!

[Prepper-Jack]

Also, if you're hard up for science, and are uncomfortable with moving to more challenging environments, you can always use policies. Upgrading the administration building to level 2 will allow you to transfer up to 75% of reputation or monetary gains from contracts into science. Then you do tourist sub-orbital flights and rocket part testing for a fair cash and science boost. In a recent hard-mode game of mine, I transferred 25% of reputation into cash, and 50% of rep into science - it worked well.

Heading to Munar or Minmus orbits yields far more science, of course. For that, I might suggest upgrades to both mission control and the tracking station if you haven't done so, so that you can set up maneuver nodes.

[CaptainApollo]

Really? I did not know, thanks! But I will do the orbiting missions, and I have already upgraded! I think this is very answered, thanks everyone!

[Snark]

Oh, one more thing. If you have enough dV to fly by the Mun, you can probably also manage to exit Kerbin's SoI entirely, and get science from interplanetary space.

Escaping Kerbin only takes a bit over 100 m/s more than reaching the Mun, even without any gravity assists, and it doesn't require any fancy navigation; you can do it without having upgraded the tracking station to get patched conics.

Interplanetary space is worth a fair bit of science, especially if you can then turn around and return the science to Kerbin.

[Evanitis]

One more thing that wasn't metioned in this thread: a scientist can take the data from the materials bay and the goo canister while on EVA. After that, he can reset those, so can reuse them in the same flight. The gathered data (from every science tool) could be stored in the pod, so you don't have to overwrite even an EVA report. Not to mention that the egghead increases the science yield, and having them leveled will prove beneficial later on. If you don't care about recovering the instuments, it's enough if only the pod returns to Kerbin if you load all data into it. A single can can yield thousands of sci - especially if you do some suborbital hopping on one of the bodies - it's pretty economical on Minmus as the gravity is very low.

Note that unlike pilots, scientists can't use SAS to stabilize the flight. But the OCTO core can - it's pretty cheap and sits early in the tree, so you can just slap it on your manned craft.

Edited June 11, 2015 by Evanitis

[CaptainApollo]

Very interesting, I would actually like to recover most of the experiments, but this would work as well! Thanks for the ideas and tips, and I saw this in a video on youtube, where 1000 science was earned from a Minmus trip!

I did not hear of this core, I will try to unlock it! Thank you!