[1.0.4] Maritime Pack - 0.1.4

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

How about some torpedo tubes? Wire guided would be nice. I'd like to recreate the events of The Hunt for Red October if ya catch my drift

I believe Fengist said that those were impossible.

[Fengist]

How about some torpedo tubes? Wire guided would be nice. I'd like to recreate the events of The Hunt for Red October if ya catch my drift

Not gonna get into that. I've already looked into missile tubes and it's just not going to work with stock physics and my coding isn't up to rewriting physics yet. And even if I did, no torpedoes.

[Thatdude253]

Yeah, torpedoes have been time and time again pretty much proven impossible without unreal amounts of work basically because of how insane the drag is in the stock water. There's been a few proposed work-arounds, but none that are particularly feasible

[Fengist]

Yeah, torpedoes have been time and time again pretty much proven impossible without unreal amounts of work basically because of how insane the drag is in the stock water. There's been a few proposed work-arounds, but none that are particularly feasible

Drag isn't so much the problem. Buoyancy is. Everything in KSP... and I mean EVERYTHING... tries it's damnedest to fly. The sub I'm working on currently has the ability to load on 140 tons of ballast (yes, tons) and 0.01 tons difference between the front and rear ballast tank is enough to change the keel angle by several degrees. And, the difference between floating, sinking and neutral buoyancy is again... 0.01 tons. The problem is, you'd have to first have to kill the stock float code, then make a perfectly neutral buoyant torpedo, then make a perfectly balanced torpedo and then... keep it from flying out of the water. All the same problems I'm having with the sub but, on a much smaller scale and in a much more immediate time frame. Basically, a torpedo would have to be designed... perfectly.

I think it could be done but I'm just not going to spend that much time creating a weapon to kill a non-existent enemy.

[TUKE]

In short Squad never imagined water as being anything other than a big splashy (And highly destructive) landing pad.

[smjjames]

And the question of what they are doing with the water in Unity5 is still unanswered. I've tried asking a few times in Squadcast, but the only answers either amount to 'no idea' or 'no clue what you're talking about'.

[Wolfmanwolf]

Hey when you get around to aircraft carriers (I'm assuming you're mostly working on subs at the moment) could you look into catapults for the aircraft? Taking off on such short distances is pretty hard

[Fengist]

Hey when you get around to aircraft carriers (I'm assuming you're mostly working on subs at the moment) could you look into catapults for the aircraft? Taking off on such short distances is pretty hard

Dice actually has working catapults on his BoatParts carrier. But, he hasn't shared the code with me so I'm not sure how he managed that and... I haven't heard much out of him in the past couple of weeks.

For now, I have two recommendations:

1. Brake Torquing

2. JATO

- - - Updated - - -

And the question of what they are doing with the water in Unity5 is still unanswered. I've tried asking a few times in Squadcast, but the only answers either amount to 'no idea' or 'no clue what you're talking about'.

Hang on...

My feigned look of surprise.

[smjjames]

Dice actually has working catapults on his BoatParts carrier. But, he hasn't shared the code with me so I'm not sure how he managed that and... I haven't heard much out of him in the past couple of weeks.

For now, I have two recommendations:

1. Brake Torquing

2. JATO

- - - Updated - - -

Hang on...

http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd343/bproctor0901/shockedsmiley.gif

My feigned look of surprise.

Well, that's as far as MaxMaps knows anyway, maybe they haven't gotten to that point yet.

[Fengist]

Well, that's as far as MaxMaps knows anyway, maybe they haven't gotten to that point yet.

Before they even BEGIN to mess with water, they need to fix planetary terrain.

I just decided to test some code that measures depth below the keel of the sub. I went through several methods, from using built-in functions to the scary sounding, ray-casting. I decided to test this code at Kerbin's deepest point. According to Kerbal Maps, that's at around -1,340m. And sure enough, my calculations said it was around that depth.

So I started diving...

and diving...

and diving...

When I reached a depth of over 8,000m... I realized I had 592m to go... I was headed toward the center of Kerbin. And the whole time, the terrain height reading -1,340ish m

So... now if the depth below the keel > 1000m, you'll going to see ????.??m. (there will be a popup window with that info in it)

And, since the false bottom is at 1,000m, once you reach 950m, the sub will be forcibly (but somewhat gently depending on your speed) bumped upward. There will be an XML config file where you can change that or set it to 0 for unlimited depth.

[FungusForge]

I've forgotten what mod/modlet it is that lets me change the authority of control surfaces, and I apologize for that.

However.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

[Fengist]

I've forgotten what mod/modlet it is that lets me change the authority of control surfaces, and I apologize for that.

However.

Other than a large explosion at a speed it's not rated for, what am I looking at?

[Fengist]

In preparation for an upcoming beta release of the... SUBMARINE PACK... I have posted the source code for the new plugin as well as some documentation regarding the more 'critical' parts included in the pack as well as documentation on the features of the new plugin.

At the moment, there will be 16 new parts with one more planned before the beta release. As with other pre-releases, keep watch on this thread as I'll release it in a post before I make it public or on the OP.

Find it here: http://www.kerbaltopia.com

Due to the file size of this new pack, and due to the fact that stock parts and most other Maritime Pack parts will be currently incompatible with sub surface usage, the Submarine Pack will not be integrated with the Maritime Pack. It will remain a separate entity.

Also, much of the content of the OP has been moved to the website above. Updating the OP in preparation for pack releases and updates was becoming a nightmare. Plus, with the addition of the upcoming Sub Pack, it simply wasn't big enough to hold all the documentation.

As of the next release of these packs, the license agreement will be changed on ALL parts and plugins to the Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International Public License. You can also find copies of that on the website above.

After looking at Porkjet's 'portfolio' on imgur of the upcoming parts as well as looking back at the parts he's already built, I see nothing but a complete ripoff of B9. While I doubt Squad would ever want to include anything that resembles a boat intentionally and whether Porkjet actually asked permission is irrelevant. I'll be damned if they're going to profit off the fact that I'm already creating a mod for them and THEN, turn around and steal my work. If I were bac9 or one of the guys who helps him maintain B9, I'd be livid. The CCA-NC license covers that but still allows anyone who wants, for non-commercial purposes, to freely use what I've created. So, even if I kick the bucket, someone else can clean up this mess.

Edited October 20, 2015 by Fengist

[Thatdude253]

Did B9 ever update to 1.0+ compatibility?

Also, that's pretty messed up on Porkjet's behalf if that is indeed what he's done

[Fengist]

Did B9 ever update to 1.0+ compatibility?

Also, that's pretty messed up on Porkjet's behalf if that is indeed what he's done

LOL, B9 has become so huge and there's so many hands in it, they still haven't put out an update, at least not since last year. They claim to be close to being ready now.

Once upon a time, it was the top mod... now, because of the bloat, I'm not even sure it's on the list. It was one of the first mods I ever installed. I only uninstalled it because it's become so stinking huge that my old machine doesn't have the ram to spare (which is why I have all these multiple packs) and trying to separate out the parts you didn't want was a nightmare. Squad put out this link to an imgur album of what Porkjet is working on. It might just be me, but there's too many parts that look like parts that B9 put out years ago. Just look at the Mk2. That was in B9 when I first started playing. Suddenly, it appears in KSP parts, but it doesn't exactly match the B9 Mk2. Otherwise, it's almost identical. Now, they're showing images of his turbofans, which look almost identical to the ones B9 has. It's either uncanny... or he's just copying their work.

Either way, the license will change just to make sure.

Edited October 20, 2015 by Fengist

[Fengist]

I changed my mind.

The Submarine Pack Beta is now available HERE.

[Beetlecat]

Re: b9 stuff: isn't there only so much you can do with kerbal-ized versions real-world equipment? Things are bound to look a bit similar. B9 was a huge influence in tone and style for many later parts mods and Squad-released parts as well (and the "complex" overlap between the two ;D) and I'd consider them emulating, rather than outright copying.

Regardless, thank you for your efforts and I'm really looking forward to trying some floating and (purposefully) sinking craft!

[Fengist]

Re: b9 stuff: isn't there only so much you can do with kerbal-ized versions real-world equipment? Things are bound to look a bit similar. B9 was a huge influence in tone and style for many later parts mods and Squad-released parts as well (and the "complex" overlap between the two ;D) and I'd consider them emulating, rather than outright copying.

Regardless, thank you for your efforts and I'm really looking forward to trying some floating and (purposefully) sinking craft!

Thanks Bc, hope you enjoy the sub.

I considered that. While it's true that jet engines have a definitive shape, and that emulation is the sincerest form of flattery, the Mk2 went beyond flattery to damn near copying the exact dimensions. He made them different enough to keep from being accused of stealing them. And yes, B9 was a source of much inspiration. Here's the problem I have with it. When inspiration leads to copying a work that closely it becomes a copyright violation. And when those who do copy a work that closely and profit from it, it takes on a new shape. I'm not sure what the B9 license is, it may allow such, but to me, that's no better than those guys who take open source software, slap a new gui on it and sell it as something special. It's bottom feeding. And looking at how closely his new radial engines match the work of B9, he apparently has no need or desire to change that. Yes, he's good and he has some unique designs (or I assume they are), but if I wanted B9 parts, I'd install it.

And before we go this direction, yes, my sub was inspired by a real-life design. However, I seriously doubt anyone will find a way to take mine on a cruise to the Bahamas. Now, should I build a REAL submarine and incorporate a lot of the designs used in the Migaloo, then try to sell it... it would be a serious legal matter.

[smjjames]

You can confront PorkJet on it if you're that upset about it, or at least ask what's up with the B9-alikes.

Actually, Bac9 (is he still around?) and those in the B9 thread should be the ones to confront PorkJet about it, but anyway......

Edit: That submersible yacht looks like something straight out of James Bond.....

[Fengist]

You can confront PorkJet on it if you're that upset about it, or at least ask what's up with the B9-alikes.

Actually, Bac9 (is he still around?) and those in the B9 thread should be the ones to confront PorkJet about it, but anyway......

Edit: That submersible yacht looks like something straight out of James Bond.....

It's not that it upsets me, it more disgusts me. But, that's just my opinion. Squad probably doesn't give 2 pesos what I think.

I think there was even some review of it that used those exact words.

[mike9606]

I believe that the Pre-Porkjet Mk2 parts were also very similar to the Mk2 parts in B9 as well, though I may be wrong since this is all from memory.

[Fengist]

I believe that the Pre-Porkjet Mk2 parts were also very similar to the Mk2 parts in B9 as well, though I may be wrong since this is all from memory.

I can safely tell you this because I have installed copies back to v .25 Prior to version 1.0.2, there were no Mk2 parts. In version 1.0.2, they were made by Porkjet. I know they're considerably older, but my .25 install has B9 with Mk2 parts.

Anyway guys, I went off on a rant and got you all involved. Enough about my overly opinionated ...

Back to boats and subs.

[Red Iron Crown]

Mk2 parts were introduced in 0.15 with the integration of C7's mod, whom they hired to bring it in, among other things. B9 expanded upon it. You have who borrowed from whom backwards.

[Fengist]

Mk2 parts were introduced in 0.15 with the integration of C7's mod, whom they hired to bring it in, among other things. B9 expanded upon it. You have who borrowed from whom backwards.

I do not recall them from versions that early. If that is true, then I stand corrected and owe Porkjet and apology. However, I can tell you that my .25 and .90 installs do not have MK2 parts so if they were introduced, then they must have been removed because I don't even recall seeing them untill I installed B9. If you are correct then yes, it's B9 who should have been smacked around and not Porkjet if they truly resembled the Squad parts. But again, I read on their thread a concern when the MK2 parts came out in 1.0.2 that they were going to lose their install base.

[Red Iron Crown]

Just one example (look at the version history): http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Mk2_Liquid_Fuel_Fuselage

It certainly wasn't as big a spread of Mk2 parts back then (that came later with SP+'s integration in 0.25), but the original Mk2 profile is C7's creation.