[1.0.4] Maritime Pack - 0.1.4

[smjjames]

The only thing that comes to mind is the same problem most every circumnavigation has had... saves and reloads going nuts. Part misalignments, etc. AFAIK, no one has done any long term work with boats where quicksaves and reloads happen frequently. I have no idea what can possibly happen. I know if some of the same game mechanics resulting from saves affect boats as do land vehicles, anything is possible. Keep me posted. I'll be interested in learning the cause of this.

Sure.

There is land not too far from where I stopped last night, so, I can stop there and look. I'm thinking of hyperediting the same craft (a new one launched) over to Laythe for easier comparison if I don't see anything that's obviously out of whack.

Edit: 'Not far' being 150km, but it's the closest land I've got.

Edit2: While underway, I did notice one thing that's out of whack, the arms there are dislocated from their mounts, but they're dislocated equally (the rear ones are dislocated a bit further, but they're equal on both sides) and aren't interacting with the water, so, I don't think that's causing the problem.

Edited September 3, 2015 by smjjames

[crasher925]

Think something closer to this.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/44/Star_Clipper.jpg/640px-Star_Clipper.jpg

And to answer your question...

http://www.datainterlock.com/Kerbal/Shipyard/Subtest3.jpg

Shhhh... don't tell anyone! It's a secret.

My cannons!!! My beautiful cannons what did you do to them?!

[adsii1970]

The only thing that comes to mind is the same problem most every circumnavigation has had... saves and reloads going nuts. Part misalignments, etc. AFAIK, no one has done any long term work with boats where quicksaves and reloads happen frequently. I have no idea what can possibly happen. I know if some of the same game mechanics resulting from saves affect boats as do land vehicles, anything is possible. Keep me posted. I'll be interested in learning the cause of this.

I have found that most of the parts misalignment I had when I would do a save, quicksave, and then come back later to KSP was with the remade Infernal Robotics Model Rework and Expansion Mods created/revived by ZodiousInfuser. In the original version of the patrol ship I shared, I used two extendatrons; while the first actually was where it was supposed to be, once reloaded from the last saved game, the second extendatron floated in space a distance from the extent the first one could expand. I decided to delete the first extendatron and use a strut in its place since the extra length in a crane arm really wasn't needed.

It seems that most of my visual breaks in craft when using this mod happens when I have two of the reworked parts connected to each other. I do hope this helps.

[Fengist]

Sure.

There is land not too far from where I stopped last night, so, I can stop there and look. I'm thinking of hyperediting the same craft (a new one launched) over to Laythe for easier comparison if I don't see anything that's obviously out of whack.

Edit: 'Not far' being 150km, but it's the closest land I've got.

Edit2: While underway, I did notice one thing that's out of whack, the arms there are dislocated from their mounts, but they're dislocated equally (the rear ones are dislocated a bit further, but they're equal on both sides) and aren't interacting with the water, so, I don't think that's causing the problem.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/smjjames/Laythe%20circumnavigation_screenshot_2015-09-03--07-16-18_zpstcxoprjx.png

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/smjjames/Laythe%20circumnavigation_screenshot_2015-09-03--07-17-49_zpsfqtvzbwx.png

Holy cow man... what the hell...???

Yea, ok dood. Um I can already guess it's misalignment from saving. Here's the only advice I can give you.

1. Before quicksaving stop.

2. Warp to +4 and hopefully, this will snap all the parts back into alignment.

3. Quicksave.

Now, here's the next problem. When you exit out of the game, the persistence file gets saved. Meaning, whatever is out of alignment when you exit gets saved out of alignment. So, the next time you want to use the ship, load the quicksave.

This still won't completely fix the problem. I had issues taking one of my walkers around the Mun. But by doing this I was able to drastically reduce the misalignment problems.

The next thing to do, complain to Squad to fix this nonsense.

- - - Updated - - -

My cannons!!! My beautiful cannons what did you do to them?!

Traded them in for plowshares.

- - - Updated - - -

I have found that most of the parts misalignment I had when I would do a save, quicksave, and then come back later to KSP was with the remade Infernal Robotics Model Rework and Expansion Mods created/revived by ZodiousInfuser. In the original version of the patrol ship I shared, I used two extendatrons; while the first actually was where it was supposed to be, once reloaded from the last saved game, the second extendatron floated in space a distance from the extent the first one could expand. I decided to delete the first extendatron and use a strut in its place since the extra length in a crane arm really wasn't needed.

It seems that most of my visual breaks in craft when using this mod happens when I have two of the reworked parts connected to each other. I do hope this helps.

I've specifically had this problem with all infernal robotics parts, even the old ones. I can't say if this is because of the stresses I place on them or something inherent to IR. But I will say this. Whatever is causing it, blame Squad. They obviously have not tested land or water based vehicles for any length of time. Any vessel subjected to gravity and isn't free-floating in space is eventually doomed to part misalignments.

[smjjames]

Except you don't really come to a dead stop on the water or it takes a while. KSP won't let me quicksave until I get to at least 0.2m/s or less anyhow. Hopefully the move to Unity5 will help fix this issue. Those arms (which have grapplers on the winches) are the least of my concerns and I can make do without them as they aren't critical.

Anyhow, I screwed up while trying to do a turn when I was like 20km offshore and had to revert (I used hyperedit in an attempt to save the ship, but too late), so, I'm travelling towards that island again.

Edited September 3, 2015 by smjjames

[smjjames]

Holy cow man... what the hell...???

Yea, ok dood. Um I can already guess it's misalignment from saving. Here's the only advice I can give you.

1. Before quicksaving stop.

2. Warp to +4 and hopefully, this will snap all the parts back into alignment.

3. Quicksave.

Now, here's the next problem. When you exit out of the game, the persistence file gets saved. Meaning, whatever is out of alignment when you exit gets saved out of alignment. So, the next time you want to use the ship, load the quicksave.

This still won't completely fix the problem. I had issues taking one of my walkers around the Mun. But by doing this I was able to drastically reduce the misalignment problems.

The next thing to do, complain to Squad to fix this nonsense.

After I tilted and capsized on the way over again, I decided to wait a bit to see how much I slow down and while I tried various things, I couldn't slow down any further than 14 or 15 mm (yes, millimeters)/s. So, I decided to try using the warp to 4x physics warp (or did you mean timewarp?), which only resulted in the ship exploding, there were a few more explosions when I came out of timewarp. I was having issues with phys warp with that craft before I landed on laythe though.

After that, I decided to hyperedit to the last location I tried to use it, which is near that island, then go ashore. I'll try again there.

Edit: Okay, I hyperedited over a drone controlled copy of the same ship so I could flip between the two and the IR parts have definetly moved around (the IR trusses with the air scoops on them are ok), however, everything else is fine.

I'm not giving up on this, I'm just going to change plans here and adapt.

Interestingly though, the crane boom arm is just fine.

Edited September 3, 2015 by smjjames

[Fengist]

After I tilted and capsized on the way over again, I decided to wait a bit to see how much I slow down and while I tried various things, I couldn't slow down any further than 14 or 15 mm (yes, millimeters)/s. So, I decided to try using the warp to 4x physics warp (or did you mean timewarp?), which only resulted in the ship exploding, there were a few more explosions when I came out of timewarp. I was having issues with phys warp with that craft before I landed on laythe though.

Time warp. Even at 1x time warp you'll see the parts 'align' themselves.

And seriously dood, you got so much 'stuff' on there I can't tell what's boat and what's... stuff.

[smjjames]

Time warp. Even at 1x time warp you'll see the parts 'align' themselves.

And seriously dood, you got so much 'stuff' on there I can't tell what's boat and what's... stuff.

The boat is the hull, blisters (ETA on the 0.1.5 thing?) and the yacht cabin.

Anyways, I tried that and while it helped a little, theres still a bit of a list and the arms are still detached from the base. That might actually be because I put them on upside down.

Edit: I tested with the drone version on both Kerbin and Laythe to make sure it wasn't a design flaw and it's just fine, the roll stabilizes itself, so there is something still out of whack. Before I reverted a bit, I tried removing all of the gantry rails and wheels and there was still something out of whack, but no idea what.

Also, the kerbals onboard appear to have forgotten how to climb.........

Edit2: I'm shuffling around karbonite in an attempt to balance it, and... it's working, for now. Still keeps rocking from -0.2 degree to 0.2 degree roll while at speed. Edit: It's settled down to -0.1 to 0.1

Edit3: Why does it seem worse when I go north than east?

Edited September 3, 2015 by smjjames

[Fengist]

The boat is the hull, blisters (ETA on the 0.1.5 thing?) and the yacht cabin.

Anyways, I tried that and while it helped a little, theres still a bit of a list and the arms are still detached from the base. That might actually be because I put them on upside down.

Edit: I tested with the drone version on both Kerbin and Laythe to make sure it wasn't a design flaw and it's just fine, the roll stabilizes itself, so there is something still out of whack. Before I reverted a bit, I tried removing all of the gantry rails and wheels and there was still something out of whack, but no idea what.

Also, the kerbals onboard appear to have forgotten how to climb.........

I have a quote for you...

"The more complex the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the pipes." - James Doohan - Scotty - The Search for Spock.

[smjjames]

I have a quote for you...

"The more complex the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the pipes." - James Doohan - Scotty - The Search for Spock.

I'm sure the loads of blisters on there doesn't help anything either.

Well, the karbonite balancing attempt didn't work, crashed into the water, I got two of the kerbals out, but then glitches happened and one kerbal died.

Mulling whether to write the remaining two off as dead or continue a rescue mission from there.

Edit: I've told you what happened in the Elcano thread (save got corrupted in some way). Also, minor thing, I've noticed that the outrigger 3.5m section has a black line of a seam on the upper portion of it.

Edit2: Is anybody else getting wierd behavior with MJs smartASS? I have no idea if it's boat parts or what.

Edited September 5, 2015 by smjjames

[smjjames]

Heres an output log as I'm having all kinds of wierd stuff going on..........

http://sta.sh/0tsb0xav770

I tested in my simplified branchoff and there is apparently something about the boat that causes KAS to really freak out. Which would explain why my kerbals forgot how to climb (somehow), and I checked on land and they can climb there.

Edit2: *FACEDESKS* The ship got eaten by the kraken after I removed KAS in an attempt to fix the spam, but forgot there was a KAS winch on there..........

Edited September 5, 2015 by smjjames

[Fengist]

Heres an output log as I'm having all kinds of wierd stuff going on..........

http://sta.sh/0tsb0xav770

I tested in my simplified branchoff and there is apparently something about the boat that causes KAS to really freak out. Which would explain why my kerbals forgot how to climb (somehow), and I checked on land and they can climb there.

Edit2: *FACEDESKS* The ship got eaten by the kraken after I removed KAS in an attempt to fix the spam, but forgot there was a KAS winch on there..........

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/smjjames/screenshot190_zps1rmfk8bw.png

You also have other issues with other mods... Lots of... issues

File error:
Failed to read past end of stream.
  at System.IO.BinaryReader.ReadByte () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at System.IO.BinaryReader.Read7BitEncodedInt () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at System.IO.BinaryReader.ReadString () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at A..ReadTextures (System.IO.BinaryReader br, UnityEngine.GameObject o) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at A..ReadChild (System.IO.BinaryReader br, UnityEngine.Transform parent) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at A.. (.UrlFile ) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)
Model load error in 'C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Kerbal Space Program\GameData\UmbraSpaceIndustries\ExpPack\AES\Spaces\AES_Internal.mu'


Failed to load assembly C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Kerbal Space Program\GameData\GCMonitor\getRSS_x64.dll:
System.BadImageFormatException: Format of the executable (.exe) or library (.dll) is invalid.
  at Mono.Cecil.PE.ImageReader.ReadOptionalHeaders (System.UInt16& subsystem, System.UInt16& dll_characteristics) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at Mono.Cecil.PE.ImageReader.ReadImage () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at Mono.Cecil.PE.ImageReader.ReadImageFrom (System.IO.Stream stream) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at Mono.Cecil.ModuleDefinition.ReadModule (System.IO.Stream stream, Mono.Cecil.ReaderParameters parameters) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at Mono.Cecil.ModuleDefinition.ReadModule (System.String fileName, Mono.Cecil.ReaderParameters parameters) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at Mono.Cecil.ModuleDefinition.ReadModule (System.String fileName) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at AssemblyLoader.ScanForBadTypeRefs (System.String file) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at AssemblyLoader.LoadExternalAssembly (System.String file) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at MuMech.MechJebModuleLandingGuidance.WindowGUI (Int32 windowID) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at UnityEngine.GUILayout+LayoutedWindow.DoWindow (Int32 windowID) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at UnityEngine.GUI.CallWindowDelegate (UnityEngine.WindowFunction func, Int32 id, UnityEngine.GUISkin _skin, Int32 forceRect, Single width, Single height, UnityEngine.GUIStyle style) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

(Filename:  Line: -1)


NullReferenceException
  at (wrapper managed-to-native) UnityEngine.Transform:INTERNAL_get_rotation (UnityEngine.Quaternion&)
  at UnityEngine.Transform.get_rotation () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at VesselAutopilot+VesselSAS.ConnectFlyByWire () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at VesselAutopilot.SetAutopilotSurface (Boolean initialize) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at VesselAutopilot.SetAutopilot (Boolean initialize) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at VesselAutopilot.Enable (AutopilotMode mode) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at VesselAutopilot.Enable () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at VesselAutopilot.Update () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at Vessel.Update () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

(Filename:  Line: -1)


NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at KAS.KASModuleWinch.SetHeadToPhysic (Boolean active) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at KAS.KASModuleWinch.OnPartDie () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
UnityEngine.Component:BroadcastMessage(String, Object, SendMessageOptions)
UnityEngine.Component:BroadcastMessage(String, SendMessageOptions)
Part:Die()
BetterBuoyancy.BBModule:CheckDieOnHighVelocity(Rigidbody)
BetterBuoyancy.BBModule:BuoyancyForce(Rigidbody, Double)
BetterBuoyancy.BBModule:FixedUpdate()

(Filename:  Line: -1)

MechJeb module MechJebModuleFlightRecorderGraph threw an exception in OnStart: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at MuMech.MechJebModuleFlightRecorderGraph.ResetScale () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at MuMech.MechJebModuleFlightRecorderGraph.OnStart (StartState state) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at MuMech.MechJebCore.OnStart (StartState state) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at KAS.KASModuleWinch.SetHeadToPhysic (Boolean active) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at KAS.KASModuleWinch.OnPartDie () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
UnityEngine.Component:BroadcastMessage(String, Object, SendMessageOptions)
UnityEngine.Component:BroadcastMessage(String, SendMessageOptions)
Part:Die()
BetterBuoyancy.BBModule:CheckDieOnHighVelocity(Rigidbody)
BetterBuoyancy.BBModule:BuoyancyForce(Rigidbody, Double)
BetterBuoyancy.BBModule:FixedUpdate()

(Filename:  Line: -1)


InvalidOperationException: Collection was modified; enumeration operation may not execute.
  at System.Collections.Generic.List`1+Enumerator[UnityEngine.Collider].VerifyState () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at System.Collections.Generic.List`1+Enumerator[UnityEngine.Collider].MoveNext () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at Part.OnDestroy () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

- - - Updated - - -

I'm sure the loads of blisters on there doesn't help anything either.

Edit: I've told you what happened in the Elcano thread (save got corrupted in some way). Also, minor thing, I've noticed that the outrigger 3.5m section has a black line of a seam on the upper portion of it.

Yea... lots of blisters.

Yea, I'm aware of the black line. That's because the unwrap is too close to the edge. But, if things go right, the outriggers won't be needed and may be removed. (crosses fingers).

[smjjames]

You also have other issues with other mods... Lots of... issues

File error:
Failed to read past end of stream.
  at System.IO.BinaryReader.ReadByte () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at System.IO.BinaryReader.Read7BitEncodedInt () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at System.IO.BinaryReader.ReadString () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at A..ReadTextures (System.IO.BinaryReader br, UnityEngine.GameObject o) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at A..ReadChild (System.IO.BinaryReader br, UnityEngine.Transform parent) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at A.. (.UrlFile ) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)
Model load error in 'C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Kerbal Space Program\GameData\UmbraSpaceIndustries\ExpPack\AES\Spaces\AES_Internal.mu'


Failed to load assembly C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Kerbal Space Program\GameData\GCMonitor\getRSS_x64.dll:
System.BadImageFormatException: Format of the executable (.exe) or library (.dll) is invalid.
  at Mono.Cecil.PE.ImageReader.ReadOptionalHeaders (System.UInt16& subsystem, System.UInt16& dll_characteristics) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at Mono.Cecil.PE.ImageReader.ReadImage () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at Mono.Cecil.PE.ImageReader.ReadImageFrom (System.IO.Stream stream) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at Mono.Cecil.ModuleDefinition.ReadModule (System.IO.Stream stream, Mono.Cecil.ReaderParameters parameters) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at Mono.Cecil.ModuleDefinition.ReadModule (System.String fileName, Mono.Cecil.ReaderParameters parameters) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at Mono.Cecil.ModuleDefinition.ReadModule (System.String fileName) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at AssemblyLoader.ScanForBadTypeRefs (System.String file) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at AssemblyLoader.LoadExternalAssembly (System.String file) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at MuMech.MechJebModuleLandingGuidance.WindowGUI (Int32 windowID) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at UnityEngine.GUILayout+LayoutedWindow.DoWindow (Int32 windowID) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at UnityEngine.GUI.CallWindowDelegate (UnityEngine.WindowFunction func, Int32 id, UnityEngine.GUISkin _skin, Int32 forceRect, Single width, Single height, UnityEngine.GUIStyle style) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

(Filename:  Line: -1)


NullReferenceException
  at (wrapper managed-to-native) UnityEngine.Transform:INTERNAL_get_rotation (UnityEngine.Quaternion&)
  at UnityEngine.Transform.get_rotation () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at VesselAutopilot+VesselSAS.ConnectFlyByWire () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at VesselAutopilot.SetAutopilotSurface (Boolean initialize) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at VesselAutopilot.SetAutopilot (Boolean initialize) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at VesselAutopilot.Enable (AutopilotMode mode) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at VesselAutopilot.Enable () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at VesselAutopilot.Update () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at Vessel.Update () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

(Filename:  Line: -1)


NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at KAS.KASModuleWinch.SetHeadToPhysic (Boolean active) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at KAS.KASModuleWinch.OnPartDie () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
UnityEngine.Component:BroadcastMessage(String, Object, SendMessageOptions)
UnityEngine.Component:BroadcastMessage(String, SendMessageOptions)
Part:Die()
BetterBuoyancy.BBModule:CheckDieOnHighVelocity(Rigidbody)
BetterBuoyancy.BBModule:BuoyancyForce(Rigidbody, Double)
BetterBuoyancy.BBModule:FixedUpdate()

(Filename:  Line: -1)

MechJeb module MechJebModuleFlightRecorderGraph threw an exception in OnStart: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at MuMech.MechJebModuleFlightRecorderGraph.ResetScale () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at MuMech.MechJebModuleFlightRecorderGraph.OnStart (StartState state) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at MuMech.MechJebCore.OnStart (StartState state) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at KAS.KASModuleWinch.SetHeadToPhysic (Boolean active) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at KAS.KASModuleWinch.OnPartDie () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
UnityEngine.Component:BroadcastMessage(String, Object, SendMessageOptions)
UnityEngine.Component:BroadcastMessage(String, SendMessageOptions)
Part:Die()
BetterBuoyancy.BBModule:CheckDieOnHighVelocity(Rigidbody)
BetterBuoyancy.BBModule:BuoyancyForce(Rigidbody, Double)
BetterBuoyancy.BBModule:FixedUpdate()

(Filename:  Line: -1)


InvalidOperationException: Collection was modified; enumeration operation may not execute.
  at System.Collections.Generic.List`1+Enumerator[UnityEngine.Collider].VerifyState () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at System.Collections.Generic.List`1+Enumerator[UnityEngine.Collider].MoveNext () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at Part.OnDestroy () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

1st error: *shrug*

2. Its something from GCmonitor that Sarbian has said is harmless and can be ignored.

3. MechJeb I guess.... *shrug*

4. Seems to have happened while I was crashing into the water or something.

5. Another MechJeb error, go complain to Sarbian.

6. KAS error *shrug*

7. Again, happened on part destruction.

8. Actually a stock error.

Any idea whether the KAS freaking out is purely a KAS problem or a Maritime Pack problem?

As for the outriggers, they could stay just because they look cool, and are useful, but up to you.

[Fengist]

Any idea whether the KAS freaking out is purely a KAS problem or a Maritime Pack problem?

As for the outriggers, they could stay just because they look cool, and are useful, but up to you.

Maritime parts are just that, parts. The only dll in the pack is Firespitter. The only thing that can be wrong with just parts is the .cfg. And so far, I've only goofed one of those and it was an IVA. A .cfg doesn't begin to explain all the nullrefs you're getting or compatibility issue with KAS. It's either Squad's code or a mod's .dll code.

[ThatOneBritishGuy...]

I considered multiple times not even responding, but the wording of this post, comparing me to PorkJet, just felt like a slap in the face.

In retrospect sorry about my comment earlier. I honestly don't know what I was thinking comparing you to porkjet. It was very mean spirited of me, and I'd like to apologize for that, though I have no excuses to give. Again, it wasn't my intent at all to offend you, I should have worded that differently.

http://www.datainterlock.com/Kerbal/Shipyard/Subtest3.jpg

That looks really good. I have to wonder out loud though, considering the nature of KSP water physics, assuming that it's dive capable, it wouldn't be possible to move a sub underwater would it? I just remember reading somewhere that KSP water 'drag' scales exponentially underwater, and it's incredibly difficult even to rotate things even a couple meters under the surface.

[smjjames]

While journeying accross the one huge open ocean area on Laythe, I've noticed something odd with the roll list that I've been having. It's not even consistent with some part that is off-kilter nor is it consistent in itself. Also, KER is way more accurate with the roll than MJ is.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

I haven't explored it further yet, I just noticed it and documented it a little bit ago.

Edited September 6, 2015 by smjjames
Fixed link

[Fengist]

In retrospect sorry about my comment earlier. I honestly don't know what I was thinking comparing you to porkjet. It was very mean spirited of me, and I'd like to apologize for that, though I have no excuses to give. Again, it wasn't my intent at all to offend you, I should have worded that differently.

You are British and therefore, forgiven. We Yanks can't seem to stay pissed off at you Limey's for long anyway.

That looks really good. I have to wonder out loud though, considering the nature of KSP water physics, assuming that it's dive capable, it wouldn't be possible to move a sub underwater would it? I just remember reading somewhere that KSP water 'drag' scales exponentially underwater, and it's incredibly difficult even to rotate things even a couple meters under the surface.

You must have missed this. It's a little on the boring side as far as videos are concerned, but a proof of concept none the less.

- - - Updated - - -

While journeying accross the one huge open ocean area on Laythe, I've noticed something odd with the roll list that I've been having. It's not even consistent with some part that is off-kilter nor is it consistent in itself. Also, KER is way more accurate with the roll than MJ is.

http://imgur.com/a/1Dc13

I haven't explored it further yet, I just noticed it and documented it a little bit ago.

With all the blisters on that boat, you've taken a flat bottom and made it round. With the way KSP water works, I'm amazed it's even upright.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Fengist

[smjjames]

Heh, yeah. I actually had a bit of an eureka moment when I saw how it was on the north side of 90 degrees (straight east) and the south side of it and though 'Huh, I must have found the curvature of Laythe.' Also centrifugal forces or something.

Keels are what a round hulls need, but that hadn't come to mind (I didn't think I had made the hull round) and I'm not sure I have anything that would both work appropriately as a keel and not disintegrate at the high speeds my ship is going.

[colmo]

I remember when PorkJet was a rookie modder. Fengist has made similar strides, there's no reason at all he won't reach a similar standard given enough time.

Love that sub btw. That's what a leisure cruiser sub would look like...if they existed. Does it dovetail with Mk3 parts?

[ThatOneBritishGuy...]

You must have missed this. It's a little on the boring side as far as videos are concerned, but a proof of concept none the less.

Ah I did indeed. That's amazing, I didn't even think it was possible to rotate the camera underwater, let alone dive down to 600m. I assume this is plugin magic of some sort? I do remember Hooligan Labs had a plugin a while back that allowed the camera to be rotated underwater, but I doubt it still works in 1.0.4 so it's probably not that. Honestly, I haven't the slightest clue how it works but as long as it does I'm happy . Either way this makes me very excited for the near future!

[Fengist]

I remember when PorkJet was a rookie modder. Fengist has made similar strides, there's no reason at all he won't reach a similar standard given enough time.

Love that sub btw. That's what a leisure cruiser sub would look like...if they existed. Does it dovetail with Mk3 parts?

There's gobs of guys making military stuff. While I'll do what I can to help support that side of KSP, the military aspect of this game just isn't my thing. So yes, it's intent is to be more of a leisure/exploratory vessel. My parts will always focus on civilian pursuits. I'm sure someone, sooner or later will ask for missile tubes but, I have none planned at the moment. Unfortunately for now (this may change in the future, depending) it's limited to it's own parts. You can put a few very small stock or mod parts on it (lights, intakes, etc) without slowing it down too much or affecting it's buoyancy. But to give you an idea, I put a couple of the big stock RCS tanks on it and it went from 40m/s underwater to being unable to dive without 40 extra tons of weight and then, it's max speed was 3m/s. So, no, it'll have it's own specific size and shape and parts. ATM, most center hull parts are 10m in length with a 5m radius. The bow and stern are a bit longer and some other parts, smaller.

The sub parts will use, for now, Firespitter buoyancy and (this is gonna be scary guys) a plugin that I'm writing. Since I'm a Pascal and PHP hack and know this much -><- about C#, stand by to make bug reports.

Once I get a few more parts finished, I'll work up a sea-trials video so you can see how it works... and, like my last part pack, I'll put out a 'beta' to those that read this thread. It's still a couple of weeks away at best, perhaps longer. There's a lot of 'behind the parts' work going on with this one.

For now, some things to expect.

• It will initially have a 2.5 meter rear engine. But, radial engines are also planned. This is so that you can attach a docking port or a stack separator and actually mount it on a rocket.
  
• The engines will be entirely electric and will use the Firespitter plugin to work. Without it, no engines. They won't be quite as power hungry as Firespitter's prop engines though. One of the things that just annoyed the crap outta me was the fact that you had to use DOZENS of solar panels just to get one of his props to run at half throttle.
  
• Since electricity can only be generated by a few things (solar, nukes, rtg's, etc) the sub will also be equipped with a diesel generator... yep, it produces smoke and runs off LF. Think of it like my paddlewheel stacks except it generates electricity. It'll generate enough that you can run the single sub engine on it at full throttle and still slowly recharge the batteries.
  
• BUT, like a real sub, the generator will only work on the surface and will require an intake. One of the things that the plugin I'm working on will do is, close all intakes once you dive below the surface. Yes, I'm forcing you to think like a submariner.
  
• Next issue, this sub, like my boats, will be pretty light. That means, it has a strong potential to fly. Therefore, should you come flying out of the water, the throttle gets shut down. You'll still be able to 'blow the ballast' and come flying out of the water like a real sub and maybe even fly a short distance depending on your speed, but you'll come crashing down pretty quick. Not to worry, as soon as you hit the water again, the throttle reengages.
  

Those are the plans atm. If you have any ideas, I'd love to hear them.

[Fengist]

Ah I did indeed. That's amazing, I didn't even think it was possible to rotate the camera underwater, let alone dive down to 600m. I assume this is plugin magic of some sort? I do remember Hooligan Labs had a plugin a while back that allowed the camera to be rotated underwater, but I doubt it still works in 1.0.4 so it's probably not that. Honestly, I haven't the slightest clue how it works but as long as it does I'm happy . Either way this makes me very excited for the near future!

In that video, I used KerbCam. While it worked for testing purposes, you have to manually move the camera which is a pain. But, you are correct Hooligan Labs was one of several people that worked on underwater cameras. For now, the camera code for the plugin I'm working on is based on the Hooligan Labs code. I managed to find his old sub code with the camera routines. It took some work and there's a few forehead indentations on my wall but I have it functional. That means, when this sub comes out, it'll have a rotating camera underwater. It's not perfect by any means, but it's a damn sight better than the stock top-down view or a locked-in view with mods like KerbCam.

As far as the 600m point, once again, you nailed that depth exactly. THAT is a different source of problems. For whatever reason, the instant you hit the 600m depth, KSP goes nuts and begins spamming the hell out of an error. It floods the debugger and loads up the output_log.txt with this error for as long as you stay below 600m. Squad is apparently aware of this but, since water is not their thing, have ignored requests to fix it. Hooligan's solution was to simply crush your vessel should you take it beyond 600m. InfiniteDice's solution was to turn the area around the sub black and start flashing a warning while also making sub 'creaking' noises. The whole problem with this 600m log spamming is lag. If you have an older machine... lots of lag and a big loss of framerate. You've seen my video at depths beyond 600m and it wasn't bad and I have an ancient AMD quad core. Soooo.....

As for my intended solution. Thanks to the generosity of Dice, he's given me a one-off license to use portions of his code. Most importantly, it's the portion of the code that fixes the fact that there's no surface to the water when viewed from underneath. His solution is actually genius but not a complete fix. What it does is, it creates a 5km wide lens shaped dome over the vessel and adds fog to it. When you look up or off into the distance, you see a hazy surface. The instant you surface though, the dome vanishes. If you look close, you can see it being used in the video of the 'flying sub'. His solution at 550m was to switch from a lens shaped dome to a black ball that surrounds the vessel with I think, a radius of 400m . That was his warning that you were entering the spam depth. And then he flashed a warning on the screen but he let you keep diving if you wished. I plan on much the same approach. One difference is, rather than abruptly switching between the lens and the black dome, I'm working on fading things out to black. The deeper you go, the darker it gets. At 600m, you get a warning that you can turn off in the .cfg file.

The next issue is thus far, unfixable. At 1,000m, the bottom of the ocean loses it's solidity and you can pass right through it. While the actual depth may be much deeper, 3,000m+ on Laythe, the visible bottom only extends to 1,000m. If you dive beyond 1,000m, things get really, really weird.

But, if you guys like this sub, the only way these things are going to get fixed is if you become Squad's squeaky wheel.

So, there's a long answer to a short question.

[ThatOneBritishGuy...]

The next issue is thus far, unfixable. At 1,000m, the bottom of the ocean loses it's solidity and you can pass right through it. While the actual depth may be much deeper, 3,000m+ on Laythe, the visible bottom only extends to 1,000m. If you dive beyond 1,000m, things get really, really weird.

I'll take this as my cue to hyperedit a bathysphere to Laythe's deepest sector (29.4543 : 7.3499 according to kerbalmaps) and dive down to the bottom just to see what happens .

I'll edit this post with my findings when I'm done experimenting. Let's just say it's in the name of science .

EDIT:

So a few things to note. The log spam first starts at exactly -500 meters. I literally sat there with my finger on the F1 key ready to take the screenshot when the log spam started. Here's that screenshot

.

At around -600m, this new type of logspam also joined in

.

At exactly -1km, I observed the surface seemingly 'disappear' and being on Laythe, Jool appeared visible through the other side of the moon (unfortunately I didn't get a picture of the altimeter)

.

I bottomed out at -2795m, and the bathysphere refused to travel further. This is indeed just 4 meters short of the supposed deepest part of Lathe according to Kerbalmaps. Therefore I assume that there is indeed a solid surface even at these depths although it isn't visible. Here's the screenshot. I do believe this makes me the first to document "Challenger Keep" of the "Kariana Trench". Laythe's version anyways .

My FPS remained decent the rest of the descent, though I noticed that the 'space music' had kicked in around -1.5km, although it may very well have done so earlier without me realizing. I'll edit this post again if i find anything else. I must say however, 'weird stuff happening' wasn't quite as weird as I expected. Not even a kraken attack. I'm quite impressed to be honest.

EDIT2: The source of the space music actually seems to be Hyperedit. So that's likely unrelated.

Edited September 7, 2015 by ThatOneBritishGuy...

[Fengist]

I'll take this as my cue to hyperedit a bathysphere to Laythe's deepest sector (29.4543 : 7.3499 according to kerbalmaps) and dive down to the bottom just to see what happens .

I'll edit this post with my findings when I'm done experimenting. Let's just say it's in the name of science .

EDIT:

http://i.imgur.com/7y39wte.png

So a few things to note. The log spam first starts at exactly -500 meters. I literally sat there with my finger on the F1 key ready to take the screenshot when the log spam started. Here's that screenshot

http://i.imgur.com/7KIAPgE.png

.

At around -600m, this new type of logspam also joined in

http://i.imgur.com/KoNndZx.png

.

At exactly -1km, I observed the surface seemingly 'disappear' and being on Laythe, Jool appeared through visible through the other side of the moon (unfortunately I didn't get a picture of the altimeter)

http://i.imgur.com/vK2cIEi.png

.

I bottomed out at -2795m, and the bathysphere refused to travel further. This is indeed just 4 meters short of the supposed deepest part of Lathe according to Kerbalmaps. Therefor I assume that there is indeed a solid surface even at these depths although it isn't visible. Here's the screenshot. I do believe this makes me the first to document "Challenger Keep" of the "Kariana Trench". Laythe's version anyways .

http://i.imgur.com/qWd8cFz.png

My FPS remained decent the rest of the descent, though I noticed that the 'space music' had kicked in around -1.5km, although it may very well have done so earlier without me realizing. I'll edit this post again if i find anything else. I must say however, 'weird stuff happening' wasn't quite as weird as I expected. Not even a kraken attack. I'm quite impressed to be honest.

http://i.imgur.com/JpudNt3.png

Yep, you found pretty much what I described. The log spamming may start at different depths on Laythe The 600m one is the one on Kerbin. The camera one is a new one to me. It may be the way you were rotated... dunno. And that's the trench where I tested the bathysphere when I built it. I couldn't remember the exact depth and I'm pretty sure you went deeper than I did. But, you found the same results.

With a moderate machine and decent graphics, the lag isn't bad. Older machines... laptops... they may have issues.

You have to admit though, passing though the 1,000m barrier for the first time gave some rather unexpected results.

Oh, and I dunno if you tried it but you can actually pass back through the 1,000m mark and surface.

And there is a 'fix' if I really want to do it... I can simply force the ship to stop diving at 999m. But I'd rather Squad fix that problem. Finding an anomaly on the bottom of an ocean would be... intriguing.

Edited September 7, 2015 by Fengist

[smjjames]

@thatonebritishguy: How come your debug console looks different from the one I have? What I have looks like this: