Squad 'stealing' mod content?

[Ignath]

Yeah ok, well I should have clarified that I dont mean the code itself, but the idea of it as a feature.

Your statement lacks all logic and common sense...SQUAD was supposed to leave out mostly accurate aerodynamics and re-entry heating from their flight/spaceflight game just because some other modders added their version as a mod before SQUAD included it in the base game?

[xtoro]

Further, I think I'm allowed to voice my opinion. Might have done it the wrong way in a bit of a vent, but I'm sure I'm not the only one disappointed with progress when things like destructible building are made instead of furthering gameplay feature. I'm very happy with the new aero model in 1.x, but i think it should have been done long ago. And I still feel that they spend too much time on the wrong things, but that's just my opinion. I feel that they would be better off being proactive and reading suggestions in the forum to implement instead of waiting for mods to be made.

Edited June 11, 2015 by xtoro

[sal_vager]

Wow, because "better aero" was so unique, no one would have thought of that.

Except maybe hundreds of players since KSP's earlier days when modders like C7aerospace made one of the most well known parts pack for KSP, who then went on to being hired by Squad, working with Squad for years and who's name is one of the Kerbal companies.

But nope, a modder had that idea first, so Squad had better remove all the wings from the game eh? Because they stole the idea of flying.

Ferram made FAR because flying was popular in KSP and the existing flight dynamics were poor, but no, a modder had an idea for better aero, better go back to pre .90 aerodynamics eh? Because they stole the idea of flying.

Better remove re-entry heat then, and flags, that was an idea from a player first, also extra planets, all we're allowed is the Mun.

Oh I see you can't provide any proof of Squad stealing mods, what a surprise.

[Ignath]

Further, I think I'm allowed to voice my opinion.

No one here is trying to get you to stop voicing your opinion...but we are also free to discuss and comment on that opinion, are we not? Also, people get hostile of opinions when they (intentionally or not) make unfounded accusations (like SQUAD was stealing FAR/NEAR/DRE). Whether that was your intention by your statement or not (judging by your second comment, it wasn't), that's how it came off to nearly everyone who responded to you.

Might have done it the wrong way in a bit of a vent, but I'm sure I'm not the only one disappointed with progress when things like destructible building are made instead of furthering gameplay feature.

Nope, you're not...as a matter of fact, I'm sure Ferram was quite frustrated in things like new features being added before aero was fixed, which is why he MODDED it to make it better (at least until SQUAD fixed theirs).

I'm very happy with the new aero model in 1.x, but i think it should have been done long ago.

That is an opinion shared by many on this forum; as evidence by the amounts of downloads FAR has had since it's creation.

[xtoro]

Meh, I said what I wanted to say. I'm not the one who started this thread, I'm just contributing my opinion. I really don't care.

[sal_vager]

I feel that they would be better off being proactive and reading suggestions in the forum to implement instead of waiting for mods to be made.

Squad learns what players want from reading the suggestions forum, and many of those suggestions are for things that already have mods or are mods themselves.

[annallia]

Wait, my old 0.90 and earlier plane designs aren't meant to work anymore???

If anything they fly better with the new Aero, while I may not have been a fan of FAR I always built them with basic aerodynamics in mind. Under the old model this required them to be very fast to take off (120+ m/s) if they took off at all before they hit the end of the runway. New model or with FAR they would take off at a far more reasonable 50-60 m/s.

[Whirligig Girl]

Wow, because "better aero" was so unique, no one would have thought of that.

Except maybe hundreds of players since KSP's earlier days when modders like C7aerospace made one of the most well known parts pack for KSP, who then went on to being hired by Squad, working with Squad for years and who's name is one of the Kerbal companies.

But nope, a modder had that idea first, so Squad had better remove all the wings from the game eh? Because they stole the idea of flying.

Ferram made FAR because flying was popular in KSP and the existing flight dynamics were poor, but no, a modder had an idea for better aero, better go back to pre .90 aerodynamics eh? Because they stole the idea of flying.

Better remove re-entry heat then, and flags, that was an idea from a player first, also extra planets, all we're allowed is the Mun.

Oh I see you can't provide any proof of Squad stealing mods, what a surprise.

Indeed, not to mention space shuttles, EVAs (can't find the link, but back then someone made a made that added Kerbals as little parts you can stick to the outside of your ship and detach them in space),

docking ports, etc.

None of these were implemented directly from the mods. Squad was busy laying the groundwork for the higher-quality features while the modding community, a group of hundreds, was busy building the future. A very large amount of mods from 0.13 up until 0.21 were all trying to make planned features earlier than they would be ready. Not all of them were elegant, but they worked. It's not quite a coincidence that the stock game has many of the features that mods added, it's just that modders and developers wanted the same thing.

One last thing. Imagine if I decided to pick up a manual on C#, Unity, and KSP Modding, and I just wrote my own aerodynamics mod from the ground up. Highly unlikely of course, but for the sake of experiment, let's imagine. Should Ferram accuse me of stealing his idea, His work?

Sort of reminds me of Kethane and Karbonite. Should Majir accuse RoverDude of stealing his idea? No, just as Ferram shouldn't accuse Squad (or alternate universe me) of stealing his; or any modder accuse Squad of stealing a feature that was going to be put in stock.

This same thing happened in Minecraft, if I recall, where Mojang added biomes and mobs straight put of a mod, a mod which a lot of people really liked. And yet, even though the modders worked with Mojang to build the update, and were even compensated for this, the community of Minecraft became mad that Mojang wasn't doing anything new, they were just taking stuff from a mod. (Years after a 1.0 release, mind you). Squad meanwhile is continuing to make new features. PorkJet, while some of his work comes from his mod, also made parts specifically for Squad to put in-game.

Edited June 11, 2015 by GregroxMun

[cephalo]

There's always a passionate thread on every forum that serves no purpose other than pitting the fanboys against the critics regarding a topic where no agreement is possible between them. These go on for hundreds of pages.

[Whirligig Girl]

Wait, my old 0.90 and earlier plane designs aren't meant to work anymore???

If anything they fly better with the new Aero, while I may not have been a fan of FAR I always built them with basic aerodynamics in mind. Under the old model this required them to be very fast to take off (120+ m/s) if they took off at all before they hit the end of the runway. New model or with FAR they would take off at a far more reasonable 50-60 m/s.

They are sort-of meant to work if they look like they should work or if they also worked in FAR. A crazy monstrosity that flies in 0.90 but not in FAR wouldn't work in 1.0. But if it looks like a plane, it probably is a plane.

This is not sharp in the front, it has a big flat cylinder in the middle, but the wings are behind the center of mass, and the propellors are pushing through the center of mass, so it will fly, even if it's not very well.

- - - Updated - - -

And here's another thing, what exactly is so bad about paying modders to have their mods implemented, anyway? It benefits Squad, it benefits the player, it benefits the modder! The modder was doing his work for free, and now he gets payed. Even if he only got payed a little, say, 10 bucks, that's more than he'd get otherwise. And he does not get payed only 10 bucks. Plus, the work was already being done, which gives more time to devote to other features.

[rcp27]

So in the linked piece, the author states,

All in all squad is a terrible company that does not care at all about it's users only their money, Every big update that added good stuff in the past was heavily influenced by modders and suggestions of the community

Isn't updating the game in a way that is "heavily influenced by ... suggestions of the community" exactly what we would hope they do? In what sense is that a bad thing? I have occasionally posted suggestions in the relevant forum in the hope that the suggestions are incorporated into the game. That's the whole point of making suggestions.

[ColourOfFire]

Meh, I said what I wanted to say. I'm not the one who started this thread, I'm just contributing my opinion. I really don't care.

And people pointed out factual errors in that opinion, no need to get so defensive. You were the one that came in here trying to vindicate an old post of yours...

[luizopiloto]

They are sort-of meant to work if they look like they should work or if they also worked in FAR. A crazy monstrosity that flies in 0.90 but not in FAR wouldn't work in 1.0. But if it looks like a plane, it probably is a plane.

http://cdn.avweb.com/media/newspics/325/p19nals4vsvjbo8181oa74n3q6.png

This is not sharp in the front, it has a big flat cylinder in the middle, but the wings are behind the center of mass, and the propellors are pushing through the center of mass, so it will fly, even if it's not very well.

- - - Updated - - -

And here's another thing, what exactly is so bad about paying modders to have their mods implemented, anyway? It benefits Squad, it benefits the player, it benefits the modder! The modder was doing his work for free, and now he gets payed. Even if he only got payed a little, say, 10 bucks, that's more than he'd get otherwise. And he does not get payed only 10 bucks. Plus, the work was already being done, which gives more time to devote to other features.

No... that returning stage is very well balanced... look how the rocket engine is well aligned with the wings... It looks well balanced for me...

[LordFerret]

The article just goes to show you that any idiot can write a review, and that most of them do.

[OddFunction]

I'd be willing to bet that even if Squad did or want to steal a mod, they're perfectly in their right to do so. A lot of games have some kind of clause in the ToA and EULA that state anything created with or for this game in some way belongs to the creators of the game or something. Not that Squad would need to resort to such methods. From what I understand, most folks would be all too happy to have their creative content released into the full version of the game. It's like getting a shout-out for your own work and can open doors to real career opportunities.

This is exactly it 100%. This is the end of the discussion as far as Squad 'stealing'. If anybody reads the EULA or TOS they'd realize that everything they make in KSP is ultimately Squads. They can take it, put it in their game and make as much money off it as they want all while giving zero credit, and its 100% ethical and 100% legal for the above reasons.

For me, if I made a mod, it would be the ultimate praise to have the game developers include it as stock. It would be an honor. But I can understand not everybody sees it that way.

But as for Squad 'stealing' anything... that's just utter nonsense.

Edit: And to be really fair, how many modders have you seen give credit to Squad for building everything that made their mod possible? Just being cheeky here, but fair is fair.

[SergeantBlueforce]

This thread should probably be locked now. I opened it because I wanted to hear people's thoughts on the outlined accusation.

People have voiced them but now it's becoming an argument.

[John FX]

If only SQUAD did directly take mods and their features and incorporate them into the game as-is. Then we could have procedural fairings (the mod, I know the stock ones are also procedural) and clouds and atmospheric scattering and more planets and oh so many things...

[KasperVld]

Before I close the thread I want to get an official word in on this accusation, which seems to pop up every now and then.

Although it's not a very common occurrence, content from mods does find its way into the game sometimes. In such cases, the content will have been extensively modified by the modder and the developers first. Including content from mods only happens with the express consent of the modder in question, who is also compensated for the work they put in and is actively involved in putting the content in the game.

Examples of modders who had their work included in the game include C7 (who became a full time dev), Porkjet, Roverdude, Arsonide, ClairaLyrae, and Frizzank. Other modders who work(ed) on the game include Romfarer and Bac9. We support our modding community, and I think the list of modders who ended up working for KSP in some way is also pretty impressive and shows that. I apologize if I missed anyone.

As for that review, I'm afraid you were trolled and fell for it

Thread closed.