Forum Upset and an alternative?

[ExplodeMe]

I've been browsing the forums for a long long time. I've also been playing KSP for a long long time. I've noticed many posts get edited and removed, as well as many frustrated people complain about various things. Are people still generally upset about things going on? I don't want details because I don't want to break the rules, just curious.

I am active on other sites and ksp resources such as /kspg/, steam etc. But there is no other dedicated KSP forum. Or is there? I don't want to discuss previous problems, just offer solutions.

Just wanted to point out to people the existence of http://kspfans.freeforums.net/

It's pretty much a blank slate as of now, but can be made into whatever we want. The #1 rule about the site according to the welcome message is that there's no moderation. So, if anyone wants to join me, I'm going to make an account now. Oh, and might I suggest that you use a different username, if you wish, but it's totally up to you!

See you there!

P.S. I read all the forum rules and there's nothing about posting other KSP resources being against the rules, which is why I posted this.

[sal_vager]

Good luck with zero moderation and all that brings, have fun with all the [Moderation team infighting], spambots, Thai brides and ...., I hope your parents don't walk past while you're on that site

Oh and have fun with the personal attacks, the fighting, useless arguing, and other stuff not even tangentially related to KSP, games, science or even sanity

You're going to need moderation, not at first but in time, as the Steam forums, Facepunch, somethignawful, and even 4chan have learned, only difference is theirs are less visible

Edited June 18, 2015 by DuoDex
thank you r4pt0r

[Starwhip]

Good luck with zero moderation and all that brings, have fun with all the [Aye carumba!], spambots, Thai brides and ...., I hope your parents don't walk past while you're on that site

Oh and have fun with the personal attacks, the fighting, useless arguing, and other stuff not even tangentially related to KSP, games, science or even sanity

You're going to need moderation, not at first but in time, as the Steam forums, Facepunch, somethignawful, and even 4chan have learned, only difference is theirs are less visible

Oh yeah, I've heard the rumors of the Fault Vault. It ain't pretty.

Edited June 18, 2015 by sal_vager

[Jon144]

Nobody likes too much moderation. But none at all is even worse. There always has to be the perfect balance. Just stay reasonable.

[razark]

Moderation is one thing. Censorship is another.

[sal_vager]

We do aim for a light touch here as much as possible, rather than act like police enforcing laws we prefer to act like firefighters dealing with emergency calls, though if we see smoke we'll investigate.

Trouble is there are things no one really wants to see, such as two members turning an interesting thread into their personal battleground, or stalking and harassing each other in other peoples threads.

It's also helping no one when members flat out lie about stuff to get others worked up, or complain about "censorship", by all means criticise but back up your claims or take a hike.

Too much moderation would be where the moderators think they are basically "the community" and in charge, and just impose their views on others, but that stifles discussion and I like to see varied discussion here.

On many sites the moderators are pretty much "us v them", and are very much apart from the community, rather than being a part of that community, and as a player and member I don't like or want that, so I encourage all the mods to participate, as I think it's better that we're all seen to be here for you guys, not here to just slap members with rules.

I've been on sites where the moderators just enforce rules with no consideration or thought, and it's not fun, stuff like that drove me away, so for as long as I'm here I'll work to keep KSP forum moderation pretty much as it is now, with all the moderators drawn from this community so they know it and care about it and its members.

[Jon144]

Moderation is one thing. Censorship is another.

It is true. I believe profanity, racism, random hatred etc. being deleted is very rightful moderation.

Deleting things simply based on if the moderator dislikes the idea being presented is censorship. I don't really quite think it is right to judge other people's thoughts and opinions but the simple truth is this is squad's forums so it is also squad's rules.

The direction Sal and everyone else is trying to follow is just to keep things reasonable. I really do appreciate this. I suppose the easiest way to keep away from "censorship" here is simply not to encourage it anyways. As in... don't draw so much attention. Stay reasonable.

The only time I ever had a problem with the moderation is someone thought one of my entirely stock crafts actually used mods and tried to change the prefix. In the end everything turned out alright though. The moderation here is a lot better than elsewhere.

Edited June 18, 2015 by Jon144

[sal_vager]

It is true. I believe profanity, racism, random hatred etc. being deleted is very rightful moderation.

Deleting things simply based on if the moderator dislikes the idea being presented is censorship. I don't really quite think it is right to judge other people's thoughts and opinions but the simple truth is this is squad's forums so it is also squad's rules.

Those things are dealt with, as are unfounded claims, slander, generally being an arse.

I'll bring up an example here, regex, he's been quite controversial and frequently criticises Squad, but he's still here and hasn't been banned, why do you think that is?

I'll tell you, regex, unlike some other members who claim to be unfairly censored, actually backs up his claims and doesn't make crap up, he criticises but he's never angry and confrontational when he does it, and while he may be a bit of a pain at times, and knows it, he's still a valued member.

You don't see him complaining about censorship, he knows this is Squads house, and he knows how to behave, so even though he criticises his posts are welcome here.

Quick edit:

Some people will scream censorship if any of their posts are moderated for any reason, as they can never accept they might be the one causing trouble

Edited June 18, 2015 by sal_vager

[AmpsterMan]

I don't think we've ever deleted a post because we disagreed with someone. Sure, we've had thermo-nuclear war amongst ourselves on whether someone calling someone's avatar "obnoxious" or some other was breaking the rules. (Some of us agreed, some disagreed) but ultimately we go by the forum rules and we tend to give the benefit of the doubt. Only time we delete posts are when rules have been broken and, mainly, when people are just being nasty to one another. (Or any of the stuff Sal posted; gotta have a strong stomach to be a moderator sometimes)

Edited June 18, 2015 by AmpsterMan

[Starwhip]

I'll bring up an example here, regex, he's been quite controversial and frequently criticises Squad, but he's still here and hasn't been banned, why do you think that is?

I'll tell you, regex, unlike some other members who claim to be unfairly censored, actually backs up his claims and doesn't make crap up, he criticises but he's never angry and confrontational when he does it, and while he may be a bit of a pain at times, and knows it, he's still a valued member.

You don't see him complaining about censorship, he knows this is Squads house, and he knows how to behave, so even though he criticises his posts are welcome here.

(Not mine, still relevant)

Yes, the "constructive criticism" mindset is unfortunately rather sparse among the members of this community. (Not to say that there are no users that are constructive, but they seem to be the minority at times)

And yet, it seems to be such a trivial thing. Is it hard to express oneself logically, instead of ranting about A or B?

Ah, there will be mysteries in life.

[Jon144]

Yes, the "constructive criticism" mindset is unfortunately rather sparse among the members of this community. (Not to say that there are no users that are constructive, but they seem to be the minority at times)

And yet, it seems to be such a trivial thing. Is it hard to express oneself logically, instead of ranting about A or B?

Ah, there will be mysteries in life.

(Not mine, still relevant)

https://i.imgflip.com/l1yai.jpg

The only way criticism can be constructive is for the person to actually explain themselves. Or else even if the moderators and developers wanted to learn from it they wouldn't be able to due to the sheer lack of information.

Edited June 18, 2015 by Jon144

[razark]

I just want to say that my previous comment was not meant to be taken as an accusation that censorship was a problem here, or an accusation of censorship.

I had just read the "Why did I create this" post on the linked forum, which brought up the complaint, and got it crossed in my mind with this OP.

[sal_vager]

That's okay razark, and you may not believe this but I do actually value your contributions here too, you've often come out with a thoughtful post.

But anyway I was going to post a link to this in response to Jon144, yes definitely criticism should be explained or it has no more value than fanboyism.

[Jon144]

That's okay razark, and you may not believe this but I do actually value your contributions here too, you've often come out with a thoughtful post.

But anyway I was going to post a link to this in response to Jon144, yes definitely criticism should be explained or it has no more value than fanboyism.

Great read, thanks!

[Flymetothemun]

Good luck with zero moderation and all that brings, have fun with all the [yikes no], spambots, Thai brides and ...., I hope your parents don't walk past while you're on that site

Thai brides!? How about Bow Thai brides? Perhaps a sensible, classy, and stylish Ascot bride?

I'm sorry if this joke/bit/spoof is crap...

Edited June 18, 2015 by sal_vager

[r4pt0r]

The forums here are fine.

Have I had some of my posts deleted, scrubbed, edited, or otherwise molested? Yeah. So what? I've even gotten in trouble many times because my sig proclaimed my belief that "mechjeb is cheating"

There are rules here and you accept that when you make an account.

The mods have all been levelheaded and fair in my experience.

Except for Red Iron Crown. He led the rebellion that killed Green Iron Crown, and I will never forgive him.

EDIT: I would hate for one of our younger users to google search for [Molested by the moderation team], maybe that could get scrubbed lol.

Edited June 18, 2015 by sal_vager

[sal_vager]

Eh yeah, though that's hardly the worst I've seen people try to post here, actually quite benign, it's just anatomy.

[ExplodeMe]

looks like i spoke too soon. It WILL be moderated, but lightly. the original post about no rules was updated. I guess the no moderation piece is towards ppl speaking their minds about squad.