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PSA: ISRU can be exploited for easy funds

KerikBalm

By KerikBalm
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KerikBalm

KerikBalm

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I haven't seen this explicitly stated before.

Ore has no cost or recovery value. Liquid fuel does.

Once you can use ISRU converters, iyou can exploit this.

Launch a ISRU converter with many full ore tanks + many fuel tanks with no liquid fuel + launch clamps to supply power.

Turn on the converter, have it make liquid fuel.

Time warp until all the ore is consumed.

Recover.

Profit.

I just did a trial.

14 empty orange tanks, 14 full large ore tanks, probe core, 6 convertors, 6 gigantors, a lot of launch clamps.

Launch cost: 154,424

Recovered funds: 186,562

>20% return, over 1 night (3 hours) - I just time warped as I wanted KSC in daylight for a SSTO recovery, I don't know how much time it actually took to convert everything (I had it convert the remaining ore to Ox after LF was full).

Looking at the unit cost of resources, monoprop should give an even better return: 1.2 funds per unit instead of 0.8 for LF.

Its also slightly lighter per unit, but I'm not sure you get a 1:1 mass conversion ratio for monoprop. (in the .cfg file, it seems ot have a 0.5:1 input:output ratio for the monoprop module...1 unit of ore = 2 units of monoprop I guess, but that means 1 ton of ore converts to .8 tons of Monoprop)

It seems like basically, you can spam empty fuel tanks + full ore tanks, and get free funds without doing contracts, or launching any vessel.

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Temeter

Temeter

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Did it take 3 hours in real time? In that case you could make a lot more money by just making missions, even with ultra easy 'test stuff on kerbin' contracts.

You're correct, there is definitly room for exploitation, but I don't think it's a huge issue. Can't imagine how you'd avoid this without unnecessary arbitrary rules (or just set ressource on launch pad to 0?).

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Hotblack Desiato

Hotblack Desiato

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that's not so much different to the extra planetary launchpads funds exploit.

put a vessel with metal containers, a workshop and the orbital dock on the launchpad, and produce something with a high value with low mass. scientific instruments are prefect for that.

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Whirligig Girl

Whirligig Girl

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I don't see this as an exploit. It's just not being a space program. It's just a manufacturing facility. A company gives you the cheap and useless ore for free, and then using your technology to refine it at KSC, you get the liquid fuel to either give back to the other people or to use for your own.

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OddFunction

OddFunction

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Doesn't sound like an exploit to me... that's just good business!

If you want real exploits just get the 'Aggressive Negotiations' perk, put an expensive rocket on the pad, and recover it without launching. You get more back every time :)

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Dawnstar

Dawnstar

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that's not so much different to the extra planetary launchpads funds exploit.

put a vessel with metal containers, a workshop and the orbital dock on the launchpad, and produce something with a high value with low mass. scientific instruments are prefect for that.

Are you referring to standard KSP? It sounds instead like you're referring to some mod, but not giving us enough context to understand your post.
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BoomShroom

BoomShroom

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While it is true that you can exploit the mining for funds, at the same time the ISRU stuff is fairly late game. The drill and processor are both T9, even if you beeline to the tech node that's still 1800-1900 science and I think something around 2,000,000 funds to upgrade R&D so you can get it. Besides, isn't the whole point of ISRU to save some funds? It enables you to refuel without using more rockets to send out a tanker, or just making the first rocket enormous. Way I see it, selling Mono for funds, or having more of a contract's advance pay for not needing massive/numerous rockets to complete said contract are different paths to the same destination.

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Hotblack Desiato

Hotblack Desiato

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Posted (edited)
Are you referring to standard KSP? It sounds instead like you're referring to some mod, but not giving us enough context to understand your post.

okay, I thought mentioning extra planetary launchpads (the mod) is obvious enough.

simple explanation: that mod adds an ore, a metal and rocketparts, aswell as a way to construct vessels anywhere. the orbital dock and the extraplanetary launchpad-part act as a sort of docking-port, where a new vessel can spawn. vessels just cost their mass in rocketparts, yet the value in roots depends on the value of each part.

for example: a small probe core is 50kg, a few instruments like thermometers and so give a total value of 100kg, and yet the vessel is worth more than 50000 roots, which can be easily recovered.

in other words, the same problem which surfaced here in ksp stock already existed in several mods which by themselves added harvestable resources and production.

Edited by Hotblack Desiato
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amorymeltzer

amorymeltzer

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It's just a manufacturing facility. A company gives you the cheap and useless ore for free, and then using your technology to refine it at KSC, you get the liquid fuel to either give back to the other people or to use for your own.

Which is why no company would give it away for free. Cheap, perhaps, but not free. Woo capitalism.

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tater

tater

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It's an exploit, and it's a basic problem with the balancing.

ISRU should be efficient in mass at some level. If you are far from your planet, it should have logistical/mass benefits. It should not necessarily even be cost-effective (we'd be willing to spend more money on ISRU that fuel would cost, or maybe even another launch for the mass savings). It should also not be anything like 100% efficient in turning "ore" into the products. "Holding tanks" should just be there because drilling can outpace refining, and filling a large fuel tank should tank a LONG time.

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Starwaster

Starwaster

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Doesn't sound like an exploit to me... that's just good business!

If you want real exploits just get the 'Aggressive Negotiations' perk, put an expensive rocket on the pad, and recover it without launching. You get more back every time :)

No, that's not an exploit.

That's called blackmail.

Put a rocket on the launchpad and threaten to launch it.

Pay me one MEEELION dollars or the space center gets it!

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OddFunction

OddFunction

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No, that's not an exploit.

That's called blackmail.

Put a rocket on the launchpad and threaten to launch it.

Pay me one MEEELION dollars or the space center gets it!

So THATS why you needed 50 Nuclear Engines in your first stage...

Brilliant.

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KerikBalm

KerikBalm

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Posted (edited)

It is possible in career.

Did it take 3 hours in real time?
So you waited three hours for 32,138 funds?

No, Its called timewarp.

If you want real exploits just get the 'Aggressive Negotiations' perk, put an expensive rocket on the pad, and recover it without launching. You get more back every time :)

Doesn't that kill your rep really fast?

Edited by KerikBalm
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KerikBalm

KerikBalm

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I thought I made it clear that I was just time warping until the KSC was in daylight, as I wanted to recover an SSTO during daylight.

I did this test in the meantime. I didn't want to actually sit and monitor the resources and recover when the ore was empty.

I just switched to it once when it was nearly morning and the LF was full, to switch to ox production - and one mroe to recover it before I deorbited my ssto

Thus I didn't determine how fast in the ingame time it took, I just know that the tanks were all full after half a rotation of kerbin.

I think one could easily make 500k per kerbin-day doing this (Monoprop should produce funds 50% faster than LF, I used LF in the test).

Essentially, once you've science farmed your way to the ISRU converter, you don't need to worry about doing contracts for funds anymore.

Nor do you need to set up some complicated mining operation that returns resources to kerbin for a profit.

Launch with full ore, run convertor, recover.

Repeat.

Edited by KerikBalm
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