The 5th Generation Fighter challenge [FAR]

[Gamer025]

ok... Now that I have that answer.

And the score was wrong. I dont know where I got 137 from.

It should be 48.

Any more questions?

Super cruise is defined at 10,000m not 12,500 meters. your altitude gives you 60% less atmosphere and therefore less drag, better fuel economy. Nice try.

[tetryds]

You guys must stop fighting already.

Gamer025, this challenge is not yours, Halsfury decides if Hodo entries are valid or not.

It's okay to point out potential problems or flaws with the points, but this is getting way too personal.

And Hodo, no personal offences.

Yes I am talking as a moderator.

This challenge is already complex enough for people to start fighting about it, really.

[Halsfury]

Super cruise is defined at 10,000m not 12,500 meters. your altitude gives you 60% less atmosphere and therefore less drag, better fuel economy. Nice try.

Gamer, try not to be too much of a stickler, it's my challenge after all and 12,500 meters is within the ballpark.

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You guys must stop fighting already.

Gamer025, this challenge is not yours, Halsfury decides if Hodo entries are valid or not.

It's okay to point out potential problems or flaws with the points, but this is getting way too personal.

And Hodo, no personal offences.

Yes I am talking as a moderator.

This challenge is already complex enough for people to start fighting about it, really.

Thanks tetryds, also I remember that you said you built a stock FAR craft, which one was that again?

Edited July 5, 2015 by Halsfury

[Hodo]

Super cruise is defined at 10,000m not 12,500 meters. your altitude gives you 60% less atmosphere and therefore less drag, better fuel economy. Nice try.

I am done talking with you, adding you to ignore and moving on with my life. Goodbye.

[Gamer025]

Gamer, try not to be too much of a stickler, it's my challenge after all and 12,500 meters is within the ballpark.

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Thanks tetrads, also I remember that you said you built a stock FAR craft, which one was that again?

Ok, so I'll submit my own entry super cruising at 12,500 m and I hope you'll accept that as well? Good, I was having some trouble with drag at 10,000. Nice to have a 60% reduction there.

You guys must stop fighting already.

Gamer025, this challenge is not yours, Halsfury decides if Hodo entries are valid or not.

It's okay to point out potential problems or flaws with the points, but this is getting way too personal.

And Hodo, no personal offences.

Yes I am talking as a moderator.

This challenge is already complex enough for people to start fighting about it, really.

It's nothing personal, I've never even heard of him. But hey if the mod says 60% advantage is fair in a challenge, I'll just do it that way myself.

Edited July 5, 2015 by Gamer025

[Hodo]

Gamer, try not to be too much of a stickler, it's my challenge after all and 12,500 meters is within the ballpark.

Thank you for that ruling. I am going to make a second craft anyway when I get time. Trying to prove something to a non-factor, has taken a fair bit of my time today that I was going to dedicate towards another craft. Seeing as the only person who is arguing with me doesn't have a craft in the challenge and is only here to pick a fight, I just figured it best to move on.

[Halsfury]

Ok, so I'll submit my own entry super cruising at 12,500 m and I hope you'll accept that as well? Good, I was having some trouble with drag at 10,000. Nice to have a 60% reduction there.

I myself have had trouble keeping a supersonic plane on the straight and level when moving so fast, I trust that all entries don't intentionally seek to violate the rules and therefore allow some room for pilot error.

If you want to make a point about it, and I suggest you don't, then tetryds, as a moderator, can put out your flame war very quickly.

[Hodo]

I myself have had trouble keeping a supersonic plane on the straight and level when moving so fast, I trust that all entries don't intentionally seek to violate the rules and therefore allow some room for pilot error.

If you want to make a point about it, and I suggest you don't, then tetryds, as a moderator, can put out your flame war very quickly.

What I dont understand is why doesnt he make a fighter better than mine. Someone else already has, so its not that hard.

Oh and why is my craft seperate from the other two? It uses BDarmory.

[Halsfury]

All right, beyond this post, there will be no more discussion about Hodo's airplane and it's score which currently rests at 48 points.

And yes Darren9, did get 79 points which is very good.

I'd like to see more stock entries with BD armoury so that people can actually fight each other's aircraft.

For instance I battled my own F-32 with a modified FAR Firehound M and found that my design is superior in energy retention.

If we all have each others aircraft we will all be able to share ideas and increase our scores, and importantly test actual fighting characteristics of our aircraft

[Hodo]

I'd like to see more stock entries with BD armoury so that people can actually fight each other's aircraft.

For instance I battled my own F-32 with a modified FAR Firehound M and found that my design is superior in energy retention.

I will see about making one.... It maybe BAD...I dont use stock well.

[Cinocal]

Adjusted my control surface deflections.

Can do better, but was using 1 hand to do it and the other to press screen shots.

[Halsfury]

Now I don't have the specs on my head but my first entry is FAR Blitzableiter (one of the stock FAR airplanes).

Just cut the engine down to 50%, as you shouldnt go past that anyway.

I am just not sure about the twr but it can do anything.

This was from a while ago but if you built the Blitzableiter and still want me to measure the specs for it I will

Also nice work cinocal , that's super manoeuvrability for all intents and purposes so long as you can recover easily

Edited July 5, 2015 by Halsfury

[tetryds]

This was from a while ago but if you built the Blitzableiter and still want me to measure the specs for it I will

Also nice work cinocal , that's super manoeuvrability for all intents and purposes so long as you can recover easily

No need, thanks, I am summing up the points for my SE-37 right now.

Just need to check my top speed at supercruise and estimated range.

[Hodo]

So messing around with the basic jet, and mach 2 seems like an impossible number to reach. I am really interested to see anyone pull that off.

[tetryds]

I am done summing up my points.

SE-37 Score:

44,26 + 51,2 + 17 + 5 + 1

Total: 118,46 points.

Now I guess it's time for a rev1 version, this craft was put together in 15 minutes I am sure this design can do better.

[Hodo]

I am done summing up my points.

SE-37 Score:

44,26 + 51,2 + 17 + 5 + 1

Total: 118,46 points.

Now I guess it's time for a rev1 version, this craft was put together in 15 minutes I am sure this design can do better.

Nice. I like the look of the design.

[Halsfury]

I just pushed my craft to mach 4 but heating threatened to kill it, I'm ready to post my final score with BD armoury soon

Now I have 88.25 points

[tetryds]

So messing around with the basic jet, and mach 2 seems like an impossible number to reach. I am really interested to see anyone pull that off.

It's feasible, but doesn't seem practical.

Btw, that was on devFAR, which accounts for ducted area ruling.

[Gamer025]

My Entry:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

- Mach 3.124 Super Cruise: +21.24 Points

- Mach 4.121 Top Speed: +42.42 Points

- TWR += 1: +1 Point

- Drop Tank Fuel Capacity = 1732L: +34.64 Points

- Sustainable 9G: +5 Points

- Super Maneuverability: +10 Points

- Super Cruise Range:

Stage 2 - 0.50 Hours : +0.5 Points

Stage 1 - 2.00 Hours : +2 Points

Stage 0 - 2.00 Hours : +2 Points

- Base Super Cruise: -1 Point

Total : 118 Points

I'm not sure where I got so many points, but I'm sure it's totally legit, there is no need to check my score, just post it up and move on.

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I am done summing up my points.

SE-37 Score:

44,26 + 51,2 + 17 + 5 + 1

Total: 118,46 points.

Now I guess it's time for a rev1 version, this craft was put together in 15 minutes I am sure this design can do better.

You didn't set the 50% thrust limiter, so your design really has nothing to do with this challenge to begin with.

Yea sure 2560L drop tank, if that's not cheating I don't know what is.

That supposed super cruise speed is obviously using higher thrust than requirement. You didn't set the limit and it's past 16.7%.

I thought this section would be fun. Instead I just see moderators helping everyone to bend the rules and outright cheat.

Edited July 5, 2015 by Gamer025

[Hodo]

http://i.imgur.com/L0hplnw.png

It's feasible, but doesn't seem practical.

Btw, that was on devFAR, which accounts for ducted area ruling.

LOL.. a transonic missile.

[tetryds]

@Gamer025: Sorry but there is nothing wrong with any of my submissions, on the ones where the thrust was not cutoff the throttle value was adjusted to compensate.

I recalculated all of my scores before submitting to make sure they were right, if you think there is any inconsistency on them please show me exactly where.

There was indeed an error with Hodo's entry, which was already fixed, I have no idea where are the problems you are mentioning.

The challenge creator is the one who decides what is valid or not and that does not have anything to do with the moderation of the forums.

So please, no trolling.

[Halsfury]

Second that, I could see the throttle settings on the nav ball when the limit was not set.

Also I'll add your score gamer

And I think it ought to be explicit that I will examine all entries, and for all other purposes the honesty of the submitter will be assumed.

Edited July 5, 2015 by Halsfury

[Halsfury]

I finally completed my own challenge to a satisfying level!

Here are the relevant pics of the F-32 in action

Super cruise with full payload (the design really tops out at slightly less than this in cruise with all that stuff hanging off the wings, this shot was taken before it normalized at mach 1.22)

-On board are 2 drop tanks with 212.5 litres of fuel total for 4.25 points

-9 weapons with air to air and air to ground ability (18 points) 2 sidewinders, 2 sparrows, 4 mavericks and a 20mm auto cannon.

Then I ditched all that stuff and went full throttle to mach 4 (40 points)

And turning back home I reached a super cruise of mach 2.15 (11.5 points)

As to supermanuver, TWR and, landing they have all been proved before and I did in fact land after taking these measurements.

All together 88.75 points.

EDIT:

Also a mini challenge: download BD armoury and try to beat it in a heads up dogfight, don't worry it can fly itself with the built in probe core so no kerbals will die if you beat it

http://www./download/sp4dvat4yhf7c9g/F-32_Hurricane_II_Multirole.craft

Don't change the AI settings, it flies best as is, might want to increase the max speed for high altitude fighting.

EDIT 2:

I'd also like it if you would post your fighter jets so I can face off against them

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That's all that's needed? And the score would be:

Droptanks - 7

Supercruise - Speed 1, Range 1

Top Speed - 38

Weapons - 12

TWR - (untested but suspected good) 5

Sustained pitch G - 5

Super manoeuvrable - (untested but suspected good) 10

Total - 79

Thought after the storm of controversy I might go back and check some entries, you did make 1 slight error, TWR is only worth 1 point not 5

thus 75 points is the correct score

EDIT: might I suggest throttling up to get to a higher speed before attempting the super cruise part of the challenge, often the engine will output a good deal more thrust at higher mach so it is worth it to throttle to full all the way to just shy of mach 2, the thrust will be greater so a higher super cruise speed will likely be sustainable, though you will have to wait for the thrust to drag ratio to even out.

Edited July 6, 2015 by Halsfury

[Hodo]

So I did a quick dogfight vs my newest experimental fighter... XF-150A

F-32 vs XF-150A

Initial climb to alt.

First AIM-120C impact.

Second AIM-120C impact

Jeb showing off 15.7G sustained turn.

The fight vs my XF-149B is a bit more challanging... Did the fight 5 times and the F-32 wins 3 out of 5.

If I could make a couple of suggestions for the F-32 to help it a bit.

Your take off speed is WAY fast, this is because of landing gear placement. Try moving the main gear closer to the CoM. This will give you a better rotation point.

Also I would set an action key for your flaps, currently there isnt one set to increase or decrease deflection.

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Here are the changes that I made to the F-32 to improve its overall look and performance.

The main gear were moved forwards and I replaced that horrible looking pylon and gear setup with a longer landing gear.

Unfortunately due to the designs short main gear it has a very limited AoA for take-off and landing, of about 9deg. Which leads to a high take off speed and a high landing speed.

Take off speed.

Overall it is a much cleaner looking craft this way, and looks like a killer bird!

Hanger shot for you to go off of.

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Coming soon....

XF-150A Arrow

Edited July 6, 2015 by Hodo

[Azimech]

I'm back!

Azimech, you should tot up your score, but you can improve with some area ruling, the little nose cone and other 0.5m parts can smooth out your cross section to reduce your transonic wave drag.

This is the reason you're not getting great top speeds. You should be able to do much better than mach 2.3 at 3k.

When you're doing these tests though toggle your gear up in the hangar, it will give a more realistic impression of your performance.

The potential top speed is much higher, but due to the construction method used, I get a persistent RUD at Mach 2.5. Might need a couple more struts.