Stop messing with Physics Please

[Rixsaw]

We are post release. You are making money, growing in popularity, more streamers / youtube channels each day etc.

Why are you messing with the physics at this point?

No-one is suggesting Chess have new pieces 2000 years after it was invented. In your game Physics is the game. When you mess with the Physics you are changing the rules of the game. I am a member of a small community of players who love your game, and I'm the only one who is currently playing it because of all of the problems with the physics that have been introduced. In 1.02 you changed the Drag. This made half the rockets no longer work, and you were supposed to change it back in 1.03 but you didn't we still have to go into the cheat menu and turn the drag from 8 down to 4. Now in 1.03 you added a broken heat mechanic. My rocket that I launched to minimus before the patch now just blows up on the launch pad before I do anything, and when I rebuilt it and got it to minimus, it then blew up when I left the ship to spend some of the obtained science, and came back. Hours of work blew up, and I'm forced to either go get mods to edit the freaking save files or start all over. I understand you have a whole list of features you want to add. What I'm telling you is that the majority of us are not Scott Manley and we don't freaking need more physics we need more to do with the existing physics that we understand. Give us more planets, further out, more game options, a bigger universe to explore, more science to research, etc. Don't give us more physics problems to solve! This is not science class its a game.

Many developers play with mechanics to prevent players from burning through content too fast. If this is what you are doing, we see it and we know it and we dis-approve. Instead of writing a few routines that noone asked for which simply blow up our rockets on the launchpad, why not work on actual Content. You know a story line, more reasons to build more complex rockets etc.

Sorry for the Rant, I love the game and do not like where you are going with it. People who want realistic physics can go into their back freaking yard and build their own darn rockets!

[Vanamonde]

For every person demanding a stop to revising an aspect of the game, there is another person insisting that that aspect is unacceptable in its current state and absolutely must be changed. There have been people insisting that we get no new content until they fix the game mechanics, too. It's just the nature of game development, unfortunately. You can't please everyone.

[FlowerChild]

For every person demanding a stop to revising an aspect of the game, there is another person insisting that that aspect is unacceptable in its current state and absolutely must be changed. There have been people insisting that we get no new content until they fix the game mechanics, too. It's just the nature of game development, unfortunately. You can't please everyone.

While you can't please everyone, you can also make firm design decisions and stick to them to provide a consistent gameplay experience. You can also plan your release date according to when a game is actually finished.

[regex]

I just think of it like KSP never came out of beta and every update becomes a win because stuff gets fixed.

[FlowerChild]

I just think of it like KSP never came out of beta and every update becomes a win because stuff gets fixed.

I've been trying to pull the same kind of mental trick, but to limited success.

It was easy to forgive all these issues pre-release as there was always the hope that Squad just hadn't gotten around to addressing any particular issue. Post-release I'm having a much harder time with it as there's additional questions that arise as to whether Squad is aware/cares about them.

If you have any particular meditation techniques that help with it, please do share

[sumghai]

I, for one, am pleased that SQUAD is continually refining the physics, even after 1.0.

Keep up the good work, Harvester and co.

[Grumman]

The nature of Kerbal Space Program means that backwards compatibility is very important. A craft that worked in 1.0.0 needs to work in 1.0.4 because we should not have to worry that our parachutes might be nerfed while we're halfway back to Kerbal from an important mission. If it is absolutely vital that a change be made that will have negative consequences on certain missions we should be informed in advance so that we can take the appropriate precautions, whether that means evacuating stations, landing and recovering ships or entering stable holding orbits.

[SkyRender]

KSP's frequent tweaks over updates past 1.0 are as nothing compared to the likes of what Terraria did and is still doing. Consider: Terraria's 1.0 release contained about 10 to 20% of the content that the current iteration of the game has. Most of the early-iteration assets have been completely overhauled by now. One of the biggest aspects of the game ("Hardmode") wasn't even added to it until 1.1. The next version of Terraria, due out in just a few days, is going to expand the game even further and make the 1.0 version look even more incomplete. So yeah, no matter what your stance may be on KSP's frequent tweaks, it could be a lot more excessive.

[annallia]

Many developers play with mechanics to prevent players from burning through content too fast. If this is what you are doing, we see it and we know it and we dis-approve. Instead of writing a few routines that noone asked for which simply blow up our rockets on the launchpad, why not work on actual Content. You know a story line, more reasons to build more complex rockets etc.

Sorry for the Rant, I love the game and do not like where you are going with it. People who want realistic physics can go into their back freaking yard and build their own darn rockets!

There were quite a few who asked for it. I wasn't a huge fan of 1.0.2 aero but I did learn to live with it and didn't really need to change much on my old rocket designs.

While I do agree it is annoying to have so many changes so fast they weren't the end of the world and it is hardly a stretch to see game developers change the mechanics of the game after launch.

[FlowerChild]

KSP's frequent tweaks over updates past 1.0 are as nothing compared to the likes of what Terraria did and is still doing. Consider: Terraria's 1.0 release contained about 10 to 20% of the content that the current iteration of the game has. Most of the early-iteration assets have been completely overhauled by now. One of the biggest aspects of the game ("Hardmode") wasn't even added to it until 1.1. The next version of Terraria, due out in just a few days, is going to expand the game even further and make the 1.0 version look even more incomplete. So yeah, no matter what your stance may be on KSP's frequent tweaks, it could be a lot more excessive.

There's a big difference between making additions to a game and changing the fundamental rules upon which it operates.

Include 20+ more engine types for all I care. However, when you fundamentally change what happens in the first few minutes of play (over...and over...and over again) for every single iteration of the gameplay experience post release, I do believe people are warranted in having a few complaints. Folks have invested major amounts of time both in creating vehicles, content, and tutorials on the basis of Squad telling us the game was ready for prime time only to have that rug ripped out from under them repeatedly.

And yes, I played Terraria extensively. I consider what Squad is doing with KSP to be much much worse.

And the strange thing is: I actually agree with many (not all...I think the new heat system is an overcomplicated mess) of the changes Squad is making. However, I think they should never have been made post-release.

Edited June 27, 2015 by FlowerChild

[Megan]

KSP's frequent tweaks over updates past 1.0 are as nothing compared to the likes of what Terraria did and is still doing... no matter what your stance may be on KSP's frequent tweaks, it could be a lot more excessive.

Um, seriously? The effects of Terraria's updates are nothing like the effects of KSP's updates, which is what the OP is complaining about. Whether you agree with him or not, that's just about the worst comparison I can imagine.

I still have a savefile with the very first Terraria house I built. The walls are still standing in 1.2, and I'm absolutely certain they'll be standing a week from now if I load it up in 1.3. The stats on a few armors changed, but my helmet never exploded on my head, and my character still jumps the same height when I press the spacebar.

[rkman]

We are post release.

Officially yes, practically not.

Why are you messing with the physics at this point?

Because there are serious problems with it that need to be fixed.

[Claw]

Feel free to discuss the ramifications of making updates to the games physics, but refrain from insulting people or telling them to get out simply because you disagree with their points. On that accord, I've removed a couple of posts.

Cheers,

~Claw

[FlowerChild]

I just wanted to throw one point out there: the game seems to be undergoing more rapid and dramatic development post release than it did pre. Doesn't that seem rather messed up, especially from the perspective of new players that may have just purchased KSP as a released title?

[eddiew]

While unfortunate that KSP launched while it was still in beta (sorry devs, but it did), I for one am glad that they're prepared to keep reviewing the way it plays and admit when things are not working as intended.

1.0.0 <- physics issues that made gameplay unexpectedly hard (e.g. re-entry capsules that flew upside down).

1.0.1 <- quick bug hotfix.

1.0.2 <- different physics issues to 1.0.0. Still had strange and awkward behaviours from some perspectives.

1.0.3 <- a much preferable state to 1.0.0 or 1.0.2. More 'as you'd expect' behaviour and less 'wth?'.

1.0.4 <- quick bug hotfix.

The 1.0.3 patch was the most thoughtful and well considered update we've seen and overall less people seem to be having problems with it than other versions. That it is post release really doesn't matter, because none of us wanted to stick with 1.0.0 or 1.0.2

[Foxster]

What I'm telling you is that the majority of us are not Scott Manley and we don't freaking need more physics we need more to do with the existing physics that we understand. Give us more planets, further out, more game options, a bigger universe to explore, more science to research, etc. Don't give us more physics problems to solve! This is not science class it's a game.

This. 100% this!

[Col_Jessep]

You can crucify me but I enjoy it when the physics change. Makes the game fresh again. Imo Squad has improved KSP with every patch and is on the right way.

Would it have been better to delay the release for more testing by the community? Yup.

Was the game "broken" or unplayable at any point? Nope. As long as you remembered to hit F10. =D

[lajoswinkler]

Wow, so much butthurtness.

What Squad did was absolutely a positive move. They added basic approximations of heat transmission, aerodynamics (could be better but it's great compared to earlier games).

I've played this game since v.0.18. and, ignoring the minor adjustments with adding heat shields, I've never had a craft that couldn't fly.

People, learn to fly planes and rockets. What Squad is doing is approaching the realism. It is not giving us Wackyland physics, it's merely making things more realistic. If you build your crafts with realism in mind, they will not break and they will fly.

I'm so sorry that you can't fly your horribly antiaerodynamically made crafts through the atmosphere, but guess what - this is Kerbal Space Program. Reserve such crafts for orbiting. If you can't endure few tens of kilometres while you climb through the air, don't play this game.

Speaking as someone who uses a hefty amount of mods - all these updates make the modders smash their heads with bricks, and it would usually break modded games, but on a serious legitimate (and legal) note - that's not Squad's bussiness and this is a different problem from the one I described above.

[Grumman]

People, learn to fly planes and rockets. What Squad is doing is approaching the realism. It is not giving us Wackyland physics, it's merely making things more realistic. If you build your crafts with realism in mind, they will not break and they will fly.

This argument will become valid the day Squad gives a refund to every customer who doesn't have a degree in Aerospace Engineering. This is not a job, it is a game. People should not be expected to have the necessary skills to design aircraft that would work in real life to play this game. If the game tells the player that their aircraft design works, that should be enough.

[wossname]

I enjoy it when the physics change.

Same here. Often the physics change as a result of a performance improvement which means that there are suddenly spare clock cycles available for cool stuff like more beautiful weather effects or whatnot.

Oh and by the way, off topic but: the turbojet engines have *really* cool looking exhaust effects now. Just saw this for the first time last night.

[Canopus]

This argument will become valid the day Squad gives a refund to every customer who doesn't have a degree in Aerospace Engineering. This is not a job, it is a game. People should not be expected to have the necessary skills to design aircraft that would work in real life to play this game. If the game tells the player that their aircraft design works, that should be enough.

It is as easy as just building sleek looking Rockets and planes. I think you can manage that.

[wossname]

It is as easy as just building sleek looking Rockets and planes. I think you can manage that.

Why is it that the most efficient / fastest / most badS rockets and planes just happen to look completely awesome? Is there something in the human genome that can subconciously recognise when a shape is particularly suitable for hurtling through the upper atmosphere?

[Pixel of Life]

This argument will become valid the day Squad gives a refund to every customer who doesn't have a degree in Aerospace Engineering. This is not a job, it is a game. People should not be expected to have the necessary skills to design aircraft that would work in real life to play this game. If the game tells the player that their aircraft design works, that should be enough.

Learning what works and what doesn't is part of the game. Besides, if your rocket/aircraft looks like a real one, it'll probably fly like a real one. It's not difficult.

[lajoswinkler]

This argument will become valid the day Squad gives a refund to every customer who doesn't have a degree in Aerospace Engineering. This is not a job, it is a game. People should not be expected to have the necessary skills to design aircraft that would work in real life to play this game. If the game tells the player that their aircraft design works, that should be enough.

I don't have a degree in Aerospace Engineering. I just don't build stupid looking stuff. If you can't handle few simple rules of aerodynamics and Newtonian mechanics, don't play the game.

Are you weeping over the fact one needs to know basic orbital mechanics to play this game? If you do, there are plenty of games with toddler-level fun time out there.

[Evanitis]

If you have any particular meditation techniques that help with it, please do share

Sure I have:

1 - Remind yourself that the best thing in KSP is to build carfts and make them work.

2 - Be glad that your previous crafts doesn't work anymore, so you can start the best part all over.

3 - If you find designing to be harder than before, remember the scientific fact that overcoming obstacles is a source of joy.

4 - ???

5 - PROFIT!