KSP Caveman Challenge!

[GoSlash27]

The rules for this challenge are very simple:

Unlock the entire tech tree up to level 5 in career mode *without upgrading any of your facilities*!

Crappy runway and pad. Part count and vehicle mass limits. No patched conics, none of the usual stuff we rely on.

Somehow you have to find and acquire enough science to make this happen with the rudimentary parts available.

Do you have what it takes to be a KSP Caveman?

Rules:

-No mods. *EDIT* No mods that alter the gameplay. Mods that are used for filming, radio chatter, etc. are fine.

-Default career mode with no adjustments.

-No F4 menu or other "Wheaton rule" shenanigans.

-*EDIT* New rule: No using mods in another session to assist you in completing your "caveman" attempt.

This includes designing using KER and then using the design, testing with MechJeb, and everything else. What happens in the cave stays in the cave!

This is on the honor system because there's no way to know... but it's cheating all the same. This falls under the "Wheaton rule".

I'm not planning on setting up a leaderboard for this. Completing the challenge and posting proof is enough to qualify you as a KSP Caveman.

"Order of the Troglodyte" awards for achievements above and beyond the call of a caveman:

Terwin: Completed the Caveman Challenge without ever leaving Kerbin

Bev7787: Sent a probe on a flyby of Duna

ttnarg: Voltronned together a horribly oversized booster on the pad for an interplanetary excursion. First successful round trip to the Duna surface.

Good luck!

-Slashy

Edited August 25, 2015 by GoSlash27

[Superfluous J]

10*90 + 5*45 + 20+18+15 + 2*5 + 0 = 1188 science.

I think I can do that.

(To be continued)

EDIT: Can you allow visual only mods? I can't really make a compelling YouTube video without Ambient Light Adjustment. I *could* up the ambient light in post but then the video will have tons of visual artifacts.

[GoSlash27]

10*90 + 5*45 + 20+18+15 + 2*5 + 0 = 1188 science.

I think I can do that.

(To be continued)

EDIT: Can you allow visual only mods? I can't really make a compelling YouTube video without Ambient Light Adjustment. I *could* up the ambient light in post but then the video will have tons of visual artifacts.

5thHorseman,

Sure, I don't see why not. So long as a mod doesn't make it any easier to achieve the goal, it's fair game.

Best,

-Slashy

[Superfluous J]

5thHorseman,

Sure, I don't see why not. So long as a mod doesn't make it any easier to achieve the goal, it's fair game.

Best,

-Slashy

Thanks. It doesn't do anything that cranking the brightness way up on a monitor would do, other than not look quite so sucky (and actually work when recording video).

With a recent crashy setback in my current series, I've been looking for something fresh to do.

[Superfluous J]

So far, so good, though would it be okay to also install Blizzy's toolbar? I forgot that the Ambient Light Adjustment wouldn't work without it. Last mod request I swear!

[GoSlash27]

5thHorseman,

Yeah, any mod that doesn't make the game any easier is okay by me.

It's interesting to see how you tackle the problem. I went about it slightly differently, but the same general plan.

Good luck!

-Slashy

[322997am]

What about points. Like extra points for doing it without leaving kerbins atmo?

[GoSlash27]

What about points. Like extra points for doing it without leaving kerbins atmo?

322997am,

I'm not planning on making a leaderboard for this challenge. I think that merely accomplishing it is enough of a challenge to warrant a badge.

If you do manage to collect enough science without ever leaving the atmosphere, I will certainly make a note of that on the "cave drawing of honor". I have no idea if it's even possible to do that.

Best,

-Slashy

[Superfluous J]

322997am,

I'm not planning on making a leaderboard for this challenge. I think that merely accomplishing it is enough of a challenge to warrant a badge.

If you do manage to collect enough science without ever leaving the atmosphere, I will certainly make a note of that on the "cave drawing of honor". I have no idea if it's even possible to do that.

Best,

-Slashy

All you need is an in-atmo contract that gets 1 science. Do that contract 1000 times or so.

I prefer to try to complete the challenge this decade

[GoSlash27]

All you need is an in-atmo contract that gets 1 science. Do that contract 1000 times or so.

I prefer to try to complete the challenge this decade

You got a point there. One could always bottom-feed contracts for all the necessary science, but that would take a whole lot more patience than I've got.

I noticed the same thing you mentioned in your video; the contracts are pretty crappy in the early going. A lot of tourists, etc. Not sure how viable it would be to find a thousand worthwhile contracts that yield science.

I pretty much did just enough contracts to pay the bills and focused on collecting science in the field. The difficulty in this challenge is figuring out how to collect the science within the restrictions of a bottom- tier KSC.

I got most of my science from Munar biomes, which is a hard trick to pull off within the weight limit of the pad and no resource transfer.

Best,

-Slashy

Edited July 5, 2015 by GoSlash27

[merendel]

Yes it is a tad difficult to make a munar lander under those limits although once you figure out a design you could just chaingun missions to hoover up the science. going to have to take a crack at this on my vanilla install. Honestly think probe cores will be a high priority tech as you can get much further without a pilot and the only thing you gain is a crew report. Could get a fair bit launching flyby probs to various other planets that just transmit back instead of returning.

[Superfluous J]

I got most of my science from Munar biomes, which is a hard trick to pull off within the weight limit of the pad and no resource transfer.

My plan is similar, but with Minmus biomes. I'm also thinking of trying to get Bob to both Eve and Duna to up his experience. Not landing, just in orbit and back.

[KerbMav]

One could always bottom-feed contracts for all the necessary science, but that would take a whole lot more patience than I've got.

I noticed the same thing you mentioned in your video; the contracts are pretty crappy in the early going. A lot of tourists, etc. Not sure how viable it would be to find a thousand worthwhile contracts that yield science.

Every contract has the potential to yield science, if you use the right strategy.

Is the science lab available under these circumstances? (Although one might need a docking port - or use rather complicated logistics to get Munar experiments into a lab than launched to LKO.)

Interesting idea for a challenge!

Edited July 6, 2015 by KerbMav

[GoSlash27]

Yes it is a tad difficult to make a munar lander under those limits although once you figure out a design you could just chaingun missions to hoover up the science. going to have to take a crack at this on my vanilla install. Honestly think probe cores will be a high priority tech as you can get much further without a pilot and the only thing you gain is a crew report. Could get a fair bit launching flyby probs to various other planets that just transmit back instead of returning.

That was my thinking as well; why risk kerbals and add all the weight just for a crew report? OTOH... having them run the experiments instead of a probe might yield more science...

- - - Updated - - -

My plan is similar, but with Minmus biomes. I'm also thinking of trying to get Bob to both Eve and Duna to up his experience. Not landing, just in orbit and back.

Minmus was also my original plan. Unfortunately, I wasn't good enough to get reliable Minmus encounters without patched conics or maneuver nodes.

I'm interested to see how you do it!

Best,

-Slashy

Edited July 6, 2015 by GoSlash27

[GoSlash27]

Every contract has the potential to yield science, if you use the right strategy.

True. I had my strategy set to max science, which really didn't give me much. If I happened to get a $50,000 contract, it'd take a quarter of that and yield 1 science.

Is the science lab available under these circumstances? (Although one might need a docking port - or use rather complicated logistics to get Munar experiments into a lab than launched to LKO.)

Unfortunately, no. You get the Science Jr, Goo experiment, thermometer, and barometer. Everything else is higher in the tree.

Best,

-Slashy

Edited July 6, 2015 by GoSlash27

[mattssheep4]

Sounds fun. I think I'll try it. I'll let you know how it goes.

[MarvinKitFox]

Unlock the entire tech tree up to level 5 in career mode

Under standard English grammar rules, this statement means that level 5 also needs to be unlocked.

Unlocking level 5 *requires* that the research facility be upgraded.

Mission impossible.

[merendel]

Under standard English grammar rules, this statement means that level 5 also needs to be unlocked.

Unlocking level 5 *requires* that the research facility be upgraded.

Mission impossible.

Standard English grammar rules is a rather ironic statement as there is nothing standard about this language. There's more exceptions to some rules than instances of the rule being followed and that's not even counting local variants.

Still as to your actual point your straying not into English but the whole T0/T1 debate. Do you count the first node as tier/level 0 or tier/level 1. Clearly you fall into the T0 camp while GoSlash is in the T1 camp. Settling that argument that's been around as long as there's been a tech tree is not the point of this challenge and your argument is just nitpicking. The challenge was for max tier available without upgrades.

Back on topic I'm well on my way and think this should be easy enough to reach in the next day or two. I'm half considering doing the challenge as stated and then once I've got the proof go for extra credit with only upgradeing the research lab and see if I can unlock the rest of the tree without upgradeing anything else. that will prety much require a few interplanetary trips and thats going to be a pain without nodes or conics. is useing the alexmoon launch window planer OK? dont want to have to trial and error that if at all possible.

[GoSlash27]

is useing the alexmoon launch window planer OK? dont want to have to trial and error that if at all possible.

Merendel,

You are free to use whatever external resources are available, they just can't be in- game plug ins.

Sounds like an interesting extension to the caveman challenge!

Good luck,

-Slashy

- - - Updated - - -

Under standard English grammar rules, this statement means that level 5 also needs to be unlocked.

Unlocking level 5 *requires* that the research facility be upgraded.

Mission impossible.

MarvinKitFox,

Up to level 5, not "up to and including" or "up through". If the meaning of this confuses you, please refer to the tech chart shown in the spoiler.

Best,

-Slashy

[Superfluous J]

is useing the alexmoon launch window planer OK? dont want to have to trial and error that if at all possible.

I have been assuming that outside resources are fine. I've even considered using outside dV calculators, though I don't think I need them for Mun or Minmus (at worst, I'll just revert and tweak. It's not like a Mun or Minmus land-and-come-home mission takes all that much time).

[MadChris48]

I'm so in on this. getting started now.

[Geschosskopf]

I'm thinking of giving this a go. I pride myself on being a modernday Neanderthal (I'm skeletally diagonstic as such in most places) and I use stone tools on a daily basis at least to open my mail if not to skin some critter. So the general concept appeals to me

[MarvinKitFox]

MarvinKitFox,

Up to level 5, not "up to and including" or "up through". If the meaning of this confuses you, please refer to the tech chart shown in the spoiler.

Best,

-Slashy

According to Merriam-Webster, and Oxford and Cambridge dictionary definitions.

up to: adverb

used to say that something is less than or equal to but not more than a stated value, number, or level:

Tech tree:

wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Technology_tree

The tech level 5 researches cost 160 points.

first stage Tech centre only allows researches up to 100 points.

In your spoiler image in the OP, you have researched tech levels 0,1,2,3,4 not 5

Edited July 7, 2015 by MarvinKitFox

[Superfluous J]

...

There are two ways to interpret the contested clause in the OP.

1. GoSlash has made a physically impossible challenge and there is no chance of having fun.

2. Oh, it's super duper obvious what he meant and nobody would ever actually be confused by his wording.

We all chose #2. You chose #1. We all understand what you're saying. Now it's your turn to understand us.

[GoSlash27]

According to Merriam-Webster...

Oh, dear Lord... *rolls eyes*

Look... This is the "Caveman Challenge", not the "Pedantry Olympics". Just refer to the picture in the spoiler and unlock it as far as I did. In your terms "0,1,2,3, and 4".

Best,

-Slashy

Edited July 7, 2015 by GoSlash27