Help with some modding noob questions

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

Hello, I'm VERY new to modding, I only started because I had an idea to release a cfg tweak for nuclear engines, which just increases the thrust to 1,000, for testing craft which normally would need very long burns.

So I have a couple of questions:

Okay, here's the problem:

I this model, but it isn't the right height:

What do you think of the model? Texture?

The nodes are the height of the stock nuke's nodes.

And, should I:

a. Fix the nodes, so they match the model.

b. Leave them as they are.

c. Scrap the model.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Mad Rocket Scientist

[Fengist]

Squad's models are copyright. Re texturing them would be like taking a book, putting a new cover on it and distributing it. Whether you sold it or not, it's copyright. And I'm pretty sure Squad's license doesn't exactly allow that.

Therefore, I recommend (once again) Beal's tutorial on Wings 3D to get you started. When you're done, you'll have an engine built and textured with effects. It's what got me started with my mod.

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

Squad's models are copyright. Re texturing them would be like taking a book, putting a new cover on it and distributing it. Whether you sold it or not, it's copyright. And I'm pretty sure Squad's license doesn't exactly allow that.

Therefore, I recommend (once again) Beal's tutorial on Wings 3D to get you started. When you're done, you'll have an engine built and textured with effects. It's what got me started with my mod.

Thank you! I love your boat mod, by the way.

[Randazzo]

Squad's models are copyright. Re texturing them would be like taking a book, putting a new cover on it and distributing it. Whether you sold it or not, it's copyright. And I'm pretty sure Squad's license doesn't exactly allow that.

Therefore, I recommend (once again) Beal's tutorial on Wings 3D to get you started. When you're done, you'll have an engine built and textured with effects. It's what got me started with my mod.

There are several mods which re-use squads assets, you're fine using them to create mods for KSP.

Here's some people wiser than I educating me on the topic.

Edit: Though I'm not dismissing the tutorial either. The more you learn the better.

Edited July 8, 2015 by Randazzo

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

There are several mods which re-use squads assets, you're fine using them to create mods for KSP.

Here's some people wiser than I educating me on the topic.

Interesting, I guess I will redistribute models, textures, and cfgs, then.

[Ruedii]

Lack has developed a method for using existing Squad textures in place. You may want to look into that.

[tg626]

You can't (AFAIK) redist the models, textures or configs. You *can* however make your config use a squad model in the game.

the config needs to use the "model" node and you have to give the path to the model you want to use and then also specify your own texture name which points to your own 100% original texture.

[Fengist]

Thank you! I love your boat mod, by the way.

You're most welcome and thanks. If you decide to read the tutorial and have any questions on Wings, Beal is extremely helpful and I'm usually around at least once a day. Shoot us a msg and we'll try to help. Wings isn't all super powerful, like Blender, but it's a lot easier (at least for me) to grasp and I've found other free solutions that make up for what it's lacking (animation).

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

Lack has developed a method for using existing Squad textures in place. You may want to look into that.

You can't (AFAIK) redist the models, textures or configs. You *can* however make your config use a squad model in the game.

the config needs to use the "model" node and you have to give the path to the model you want to use and then also specify your own texture name which points to your own 100% original texture.

Those both sound useful if I use a stock model. Using a stock model would be easier, but I may just use wings 3d, because all of my blender experiments are... interesting. The problem is, I kind of have to use the stock cfgs, because of what my mod is trying to do.

You're most welcome and thanks. If you decide to read the tutorial and have any questions on Wings, Beal is extremely helpful and I'm usually around at least once a day. Shoot us a msg and we'll try to help. Wings isn't all super powerful, like Blender, but it's a lot easier (at least for me) to grasp and I've found other free solutions that make up for what it's lacking (animation).

Great! Thanks for the offer!

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

Okay, so I'm thinking of making custom models for it with wings 3d, but I still have the cfg problem. Who should I contact about that?

Also, what should I put as the author of the part? Right now I have novasilsko (I know I'm misspelling his name), with minor modifications by Mad Rocket Scientist, but if I make my own model, how should I change that?

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

I need some more help, Unity wants a account, do I have to do that, or am I doing something wrong?

[Fengist]

I need some more help, Unity wants a account, do I have to do that, or am I doing something wrong?

You can create one but it'll just keep asking for it every time you start it. Select 'work offline' and it won't ask again.

- - - Updated - - -

Okay, so I'm thinking of making custom models for it with wings 3d, but I still have the cfg problem. Who should I contact about that?

Also, what should I put as the author of the part? Right now I have novasilsko (I know I'm misspelling his name), with minor modifications by Mad Rocket Scientist, but if I make my own model, how should I change that?

Ok, I'll venture into the .cfg question.

Technically, anything written down is copyright the instant it's written.

If you follow that, then you'll be creating every single .cfg from scratch. Nextly, .cfg files have what's called key/value pairs. You have the key on the left of the = sign and the value on the right. Because there are only so many keys available to use and because only so many values can be assigned to a key, it's inevitable that yours will look an awful lot like someone else's. That and if you had to write every one from scratch, you'd never figure it all out. So. My advice is to study .cfg files. Take what you need from them to make your own (copy/paste). Change the part name, title, description, manufacturer to whatever you want and call it your own. There is a thing in copyright called 'fair use.' I SERIOUSLY doubt anyone is going to take you to court for using bits of their .cfg and they'd have a hard time proving it a violation if they did. Now, if you don't change the name, description or title, they might have a case.

Edited July 10, 2015 by Fengist

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

Fengist said:

You can create one but it'll just keep asking for it every time you start it. Select 'work offline' and it won't ask again.

Great! I was worried I somehow had downloaded the paid version.

- - - Updated - - -

Ok, I'll venture into the .cfg question.

Technically, anything written down is copyright the instant it's written.

If you follow that, then you'll be creating every single .cfg from scratch. Nextly, .cfg files have what's called key/value pairs. You have the key on the left of the = sign and the value on the right. Because there are only so many keys available to use and because only so many values can be assigned to a key, it's inevitable that yours will look an awful lot like someone else's. That and if you had to write every one from scratch, you'd never figure it all out. So. My advice is to study .cfg files. Take what you need from them to make your own (copy/paste). Change the part name, title, description, manufacturer to whatever you want and call it your own. There is a thing in copyright called 'fair use.' I SERIOUSLY doubt anyone is going to take you to court for using bits of their .cfg and they'd have a hard time proving it a violation if they did. Now, if you don't change the name, description or title, they might have a case.

Alright, thank you! I see there's a new mod on kerbalstuff, it's only is a cfg tweak. [removed link to defunct website]I'm going to go looking for the release page on add-on releases, and see what happens.

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

You can create one but it'll just keep asking for it every time you start it. Select 'work offline' and it won't ask again.

So I do have to create an account? Phooey.

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

I have another question:

The first time I UV unwrapped a wings 3d model, the bits with the same color stayed as one thing in the UV unwrapping screen, but every other time, it's broken up every face into an individual thing. Any ideas? Thanks again!

[Fengist]

I have another question:

The first time I UV unwrapped a wings 3d model, the bits with the same color stayed as one thing in the UV unwrapping screen, but every other time, it's broken up every face into an individual thing. Any ideas? Thanks again!

Well, without seeing the unwrap I could only guess. When Wings unwraps, it will break the the UV according to hardness settings. For example, if you have 4 squares all the same color and the edges are smooth, it'll keep them all together. If you change the hardness of an edge in the middle of those squares, it'll split them apart at that edge.

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

Well, without seeing the unwrap I could only guess. When Wings unwraps, it will break the the UV according to hardness settings. For example, if you have 4 squares all the same color and the edges are smooth, it'll keep them all together. If you change the hardness of an edge in the middle of those squares, it'll split them apart at that edge.

Okay, so first I selected my entire model, and changed over to line select, and set hardness to hard. Just so I had a baseline.

Then I colored the nozzle like this:

My final design for coloring won't look like this.

Then I hit continue, and select "Projection normal":

Then I get this:

Thanks for your help!

[Fengist]

Ok, my guess was correct.

You see those orange lines. You have the hardness set to hard for every single edge. Wings will split the UV by hardness lines. When your model is loaded into Unity and then KSP, any edge set to hard won't have that edge smoothed out. It'll look very blocky. Smoothing tells Unity to 'round' the edge. Wings is trying to preserve that hardness in the UV by making all those faces separate entities. Which is why your UV is scattered all over the place. Soft edges in Wings are black. Hard edges are orange.

An example of what you want on your nozzle. All of the vertical edges around the nozzle, you'll want soft, so it smooths it out and makes it look more round. At the very bottom of your nozzle, you'll want those horizontal edges to be set to hard so that it looks crisp and sharp. Also, at the very top, you'll want the edge where it joins to another part to be hard. Hardness and softness also affect how lights and shadows are cast on your finished part.

I had to learn this the hard way too. Here's an example of what my hulls looked like with outside edges set to smooth. Beal came to my rescue on this one.

Try this:

Close your UV window.

Hit space to deselect everything.

At the top, select the red cube and click on your model to select the entire model.

At the top, select edges, it's the cube with just one edge in red. That should highlight all of your edges.

Right click. Select Hardness/Soft. That sets all of your edges to soft edges.

Now you have two choices. With the edge selector still chosen, you can hit space to deselect everything then manually go through your model and select all of the edges you want hard and once you have them selected, you can right click, select Hardness/Hard.

The other choice is to let Wings try to determine where harness should be. Choose the red cube at the top to select your entire model again then right click and select Auto-Smooth. The way it works is, any edge that has an angle of greater than a specified degree, it'll make it smooth. Any edge with a sharper angle, it'll set it to hard. The default is 60 degrees. So, an edge that has an angle of say 45 degrees will be made smooth while any edge of 90 degrees will be made hard.

If you right click with your entire model selected to bring up the menu, to the right word Auto-Smooth is a little white box. Click in it and you can change that default 60 degrees to whatever you want.

Once you have your edges set, click the red cube and select your entire model again. Right click to open the menu and this time, right click on UV mapping to re-map your model. Once you're done, it should look a lot different.

For future reference, smooth should be your baseline.

Edited July 11, 2015 by Fengist

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

Ok, my guess was correct.

[Helpfulness]

Thanks a lot! I think it'll work now!

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

Thanks, everyone, for the help!

I have a new question:

I this model, but it isn't the right height:

What do you think of the model? Texture?

The nodes are the height of the stock nuke's nodes.

And, should I:

a. Fix the nodes, so they match the model.

b. Leave them as they are.

c. Scrap the model.

[mariohm1311]

Yeah, that has happened to me. Don't worry, just get the coordinates (of the node) on Unitiy or the 3D program of your choice and plug them into the .cfg file.

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

Yeah, that has happened to me. Don't worry, just get the coordinates (of the node) on Unitiy or the 3D program of your choice and plug them into the .cfg file.

I got the nodes to work right, but should I stick with that, or change the model?

[Fengist]

I got the nodes to work right, but should I stick with that, or change the model?

Ok Mad Man... I'm not going to critique your work. Mainly because no one was terribly harsh with my first part pack release, even though I can look back a month and a half later and think, "man that was horrible." But I will give you some advice that I'm slowly learning:

The one advantage I have with my parts, as ugly as the first alpha parts were, they're rather unique. People are willing to tolerate a certain amount of my noobishness in order to have something unique. And thus far, they've been very patient with my learning. But, I'm sure you saw the poll results. People want nice looking parts as much as they want big parts. As I keep playing around with Wings and Unity, I keep learning things. I have concluded that Rembrandt was not a master with his first painting. He may have been better than most, but not a master. As you continue making parts and learning how to unwrap and texture them, you too will gain skill. While I'm still very much a noob, I have gained enough skill that I can do things like this now without a lot of effort. And even now I look at that part and go... eh.. it's ok. Not great, but ok.

So, here's my advice. Take that engine, set it aside. Take some of the other ideas you have rattling around in your head and implement those. Try an animation. Try adding particle effects and emissive effects. Play around with specular lighting. Learn how to do lights. Get some of the basics of making your part more than just a static model. If you're brave, try an IVA. If you've lost your mind, try a wheel... and then, come back to that engine. Take a critical look at it and then you decide if it's your best quality work.

Oh, and here's one trick for working with Wings and Unity and getting your .cfg nodes right.

In Wings, you can do two things that will make life easier.

1. Select your entire model and I think it's under the tools menu / put on ground. It'll drop it to the x,y,z zero point.

2. Select your entire model, right click and absolute commands/move Enter 0,0,0. That too will center your model.

Once you have it in a centered location you can then click any verticies anywhere on the model and it translates into the .cfg location. For example: If you center your model and then click on a vertices at the top, where it would join a fuel tank, you can look in the upper left corner of Wings and it'll give you the x,y,z coordinates for that vertices. For example, if it's Y coordinate is 2.5 then you know in your .cfg that the node connector needs be 2.5 on the Y axis in your .cfg (if you have the part oriented in Wings correctly). This is also handy for matching parts up. One of the things I did to get all the parts on my hulls to match up was to use the Wings merge ability. I was able to get the hull and bow loaded at the same time and was then able to absolute/move the vertices to match them all up, down to 6 decimal places.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Fengist

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

[Good advice]

Thanks for the advice, I understand that that's not a... beautiful model or texture.

Good idea, I have some ideas for a shorter, 2.5 meter, less efficient, but more efficient ASL nuke for lifters, and I'll try more advanced modeling and texturing stuff. I the mean time, this mod is using squad textures and models, so I'll keep an eye on that and see if it's okay to redistribute squad stuff. If it is, I'll release that cfg tweak for the stock nuke. Then I could do the ion engine... But I'm getting ahead of myself.

That paddle wheel looks great!

[Fengist]

Thanks for the advice, I understand that that's not a... beautiful model or texture.

Good idea, I have some ideas for a shorter, 2.5 meter, less efficient, but more efficient ASL nuke for lifters, and I'll try more advanced modeling and texturing stuff. I the mean time, this mod is using squad textures and models, so I'll keep an eye on that and see if it's okay to redistribute squad stuff. If it is, I'll release that cfg tweak for the stock nuke. Then I could do the ion engine... But I'm getting ahead of myself.

That paddle wheel looks great!

You can never have too many ideas!

And thanks. One of the things I try to challenge myself to do to make me learn is to make all of my parts out of one primitive object. I don't always succeed but most times I do. The paddlewheel started life as just a cylinder. By extruding and bridging I was able to keep it one part. Makes me think outside the box when it comes to making models.