Rescuing poor Bill Kerman from the Mun

[primal]

After buying the full game some days ago, I've literally been planted in front on my screen since. I jumped straight into career mode and started building. I finally reached the Mun, but on landing my rocket tipped over. On it is a Science Jr. module, the goo and thermometer. I want to bring that science back home. The EVA's I've done has been transmitted, but seems like I've spent the majority of my electricity, even with 3 rechargable batteries (did I use them wrong? I've sent about 3-4 messages to Kerbin).

Now, what would be the best way to bring the poor chap back home, with his science?

Edited July 11, 2015 by primal
Answered!

[Grumman]

The way I'd do it is this:

1. Build another Mun lander, this time with a probe core and some solar panels, but without the science parts. In the top-left corner in the Vehicle Assembly Building there are three tabs. Pick the right-most one, and make sure that the lander's crew capsule is empty.

2. Launch this lander the same way you launched the last one, and make sure that if you're not using the smallest solar panels that you remember to open them.

3. When the lander is in Munar orbit, save your game. Try to land it near Bill's lander. If you fail, load and try again.

4. Control Bill. Walk next to every part that contains science experiments, right-click and choose to take the data. Then walk over to the rescue lander, get in and fly away.

[Sharpy]

Send a rescue vessel (possibly driven by a Stayputnik). No science on board, just a bare minimum for a safe return. Keep it squat (and keep all your landers squat) - put the reentry capsule on a stack decoupler then attach the fuel tanks with their engines *radially* to the decoupler (not under - but to the sides), making them stick at least as much up above the capsule as down below it. (just make sure not to obstruct the hatch), and the lander legs on the outer side of the tanks.

"Remove Experiments" from each science module - have Bob approach it really close (on EVA), rightclick the module and choose "take data". As he enters the capsule he will take the data with him. Also, if any is stored in the tipped lander, you can remove data from its capsule as well and put it in the rescue vessel.

Make sure the rescue capsule can safely decouple from the tanks+decoupler. In a 3-tank setup this is usually perfectly doable, in a 4-tank setup this may be tricky. Decouple it before the reentry, don't forget the parachute!

Now landing in a reasonable distance will be somewhat challenging.

Also remember your engines usually contain an alternator. Performing a very weak burn (say, lying sideways, too weak to move you) you are charging the batteries.

[GoSlash27]

This might come in handy:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/104638-Reverse-gravity-turn-landing-technique-for-airless-bodies

Best,

-Slashy

[Wemb]

Now landing in a reasonable distance will be somewhat challenging.

What he said - get ready to face a long, -long- walk back to your rescue ship - you should remember to set the lander as a target when you're controlling your kerbal so you can work out which direction to trudge in back to your rescue ship.

Also if you're flying an unmanned probe out there, and haven't got solar panels, add some more batteries - though you'll probably be fine if you're not using the transmitters.

Finally, if you're having problems staying upright when landing, have a play with the rotate tools in the VAB - you should be able to angle the landing gear outward a touch to give you a more stable lander.

Wemb

- - - Updated - - -

Oh - also note - falling over like this is bad, but not necessarily a disaster - depending on the geography of where you fell (e.g. on a edge of a slope forming a natural 'ramp') you might (might) be able to recover it - though it's a terrible risk. On Minmus the gravity is low enough you can easily take off and use the capsule's reaction wheels to pull you upright - the Mun, less so, and the friction may just cause your ship to explode before it can get off the ground. Sometimes toggling the landing gear can provide a bit of impetous to help as well.

[Sharpy]

As for walking: The EVA suit has a lot of propellant so you should be able to fly a considerable distance, just don't kill yourself falling (slow down before landing) and leave a few drops to fly up to the hatch if you don't have a ladder.

[Wemb]

As for walking: The EVA suit has a lot of propellant so you should be able to fly a considerable distance, just don't kill yourself falling (slow down before landing) and leave a few drops to fly up to the hatch if you don't have a ladder.

Be careful with flying - it's deceptively easy to end up going very, very fast horizontally and end up smacking your head against the side of a crater. Mind you, not as much 'fun' as falling down a slope on Minmus...

Wemb

[Snark]

A tip for doing precision landings close to something already landed: As you get within a minute or two of landing, switch your navball to "surface" mode. Set Bill as the target.

Then, as you approach, make sure that your velocity retrograde marker stays directly aligned somewhat below the target retrograde marker. That is, if you picture a straight line with your velocity retrograde marker at one end and the zenith indicator at the other, you want the target retrograde marker to be right smack dab on that line, in between. As you get closer, the target retrograde marker will gradually slide towards the zenith. When it's precisely on the zenith, that means you're directly overhead, so kill all your horizontal velocity. Then you just drop straight down to the target.

Using this technique, it's pretty straightforward to land within a few dozen meters of the target (on airless worlds, anyway).

[jwenting]

and remember: F5 for safety. And to allow you multiple landing attempts if you end up way too far away from your intended spot (and oh, press and hold F9 to reload that quicksave).

[primal]

MISSION SUCCESS!

Lord almighty what a trip.

Followed a combination of tips from here. I combined an unmanned mk1 with the Stayputnik and put 4 batteries on it. The landing vessel was 4 medium fuel tanks with the small landing engines on them. That was powered by a stage 2 set of t800 fuel tanks with the steerable engines, which again was powered by a stage 1 set of 5x rockomax fuel tanks with the engine that comes prior to the mainsail, along with some thrusters.

The landing on the Mun actually went relatively smoothly. I packed so much fuel that I could bob up and down some 1000m above the surface until I came close enough to thrust retrograde and slow down. In the end I landed about 800m from brave ol' Bill. On one t400 engine I set course for Kerbin, which went almost perfect, except for the fact that I ran out of batteries half way there, and couldn't control my vessel without activating engines, which would've set me off course. Thankfully my entry angle was low enough to not burn up on re-entry, although my batteries exploded (my heart sank for a sec when I thought it was my pod). Landed smoothly on Earth, with Bill bringing home 267 science point, and transmitted another 200 or so.

What a guy. I'd say he even rivals Jebediah.

[Frank_G]

Welcome to the forums primal! Congratulations on your big achievement. Rescue-missions are so much fun

To ensure, that you always have some juice left in the batteries, you could add another battery, right-click it right in the VAB or SPH and block the usage by clicking on the small green triangle. It will change into a red crossed out circle. The battery now needs to be reactivated before it spends its energy. That saves your vessels from unpleasant power drop outs.

[primal]

Good tip, thanks!

Some missions ago I tried putting some batteries inside of the service bay, but when I opened it when in orbit, it wasn't there. What exactly is the service bay for? The smallest/first service bay you get.

[Xwingace]

800m is right on target, good job.

Are you putting any solar panels on your craft? That would solve your battery problem.

[primal]

I don't think I've unlocked it yet Xwingace.

Also, can someone explain the benefits of the yellow fuel pipes? I've understood you have to use it if you want to perform an aspargus launch. But what exactly does it do?

[Snark]

Congratulations on a successful mission!

Some missions ago I tried putting some batteries inside of the service bay, but when I opened it when in orbit, it wasn't there. What exactly is the service bay for? The smallest/first service bay you get.

The batteries should have been there-- if they weren't, either you've hit a bug of some sort, or else the batteries somehow weren't really "attached" in the VAB editor. Have never run into that problem myself.

The bay is useful for a few purposes:

- Drag reduction. You can put draggy radial parts inside it so that they're sheltered from atmosphere, the base is nice and cylindrical and streamlined.

- Delicate part protection, e.g. to stop fragile things (like science instruments) from overheating and exploding during reentry.

- My favorite use: as a radius booster. The larger probe cores (1.25m and up) are really far up the tech tree-- there's a long, long stretch of the career game where I want to build large probe cores into my vessel stack, but all I have are 0.625m models like the HECS. The easy solution is to add a service bay, then put the probe core inside the bay. I love doing this. Prior to the addition of service bays, I had to play games with conical adapters and struts, which had several disadvantages (looks clunky, boosts part count, needs struts to prevent wobble, and in 1.0+ is draggy and massy).

Also, can someone explain the benefits of the yellow fuel pipes? I've understood you have to use it if you want to perform an aspargus launch. But what exactly does it do?

KSP routes fuel from engines to tanks, and from one tank to another, according to a set of rules about where fuel flow is/isn't possible. For example, if you have a fuel tank, and then put it on top of another fuel tank, and then an engine: when you fly, the engine will pull fuel from the top (i.e. farthest-from-the-engine) tank until it's empty, then the tank that's right above the engine. This will work even if you have other pieces between the two tanks (e.g. "1.25m tank on top of conical structural adapter on top of 2.5m tank" or whatever), as long as all the parts in between are "fuel crossfeed capable".

However, flow will not flow between two tanks if one of two conditions applies:

1. The connection path between the tanks includes any parts that are not fuel crossfeed capable. Most KSP parts are, but some aren't. Notably, decouplers are not. If you put a tank on top of a decoupler on top of another tank on top of an engine, then the engine won't draw fuel from the top tank because there's a decoupler in the way.

2. The tanks are attached in a way that doesn't establish a connection. For example, let's say you start with a cylindrical fuel tank. If you attach another tank on top or below (i.e. using the attachment nodes in the vehicle editor), then the two tanks can flow fuel to each other. However, if you attach the second tank radially, then it's physically attached, but fuel won't flow.

The yellow fuel ducts give you a way to add fuel flow between tanks that otherwise couldn't. The duct is directional (only flows fuel in one direction).

This is useful for setting things up so that, for example, engines in an upper stage can draw fuel from engines in a lower stage (which they otherwise couldn't, since decouplers prevent crossfeed), and also for asparagus setups.

It can also be handy in giving you some additional options for arranging the parts on your craft.

Example 1: Feed fuel from radial tanks to the center. Suppose your ship design is too tall/skinny, once you've stacked all the tanks and engines from the various stages on top of each other, so that the ship is hard to control, or flexes too much, or whatever. You can make the ship shorter like this: if you have part X, sitting on top of a tank, sitting on top of an engine, you can take out the tank and attach the engine directly to X, then replace the tank with a couple of smaller tanks that are attached radially to the sides of X. However, if you do that, then the tanks won't flow fuel to the engine (since radial attachment doesn't establish fuel crossfeed). So you can add fuel ducts that connect the tanks to X (if it's cross-feed capable), or directly to the engine.

Example 2: The opposite: feed fuel from a central tank to radial ones. Suppose that you're making a 2.5m ship that needs 16 tons of fuel, so you're using the Rockomax tank of that size. You're considering putting a Poodle under that, but you decide that's too much engine for your purposes, and a pair of Terriers would do the trick. So you attach a couple of little fuel tanks to the sides of your big 16-ton one, and put the Terriers under those. You want them to draw fuel from the big central tank, so you attach fuel ducts from the central tank to the radial ones.

One really handy use for fuel ducts is lander design (e.g. for landing on the Mun). You want landers to be really low and squat, so that they don't tip over. Putting your command pod on top of a fuel tank on top of an engine tends to make for a tall, skinny ship. So what I like to do is to set the command pod directly on top of the engine (e.g. attach a Terrier directly underneath a lander can), then mount a pair of fuel tanks to the sides of the command pod. Not only does that make the lander a lot shorter, it also makes it wider, so that I can attach my landing legs to the radial tanks to give the lander a wide stance. However, that design needs fuel ducts to work, because otherwise fuel couldn't get from the tanks to the engine.

Edited July 12, 2015 by Snark

[Sharpy]

Good tip, thanks!

Some missions ago I tried putting some batteries inside of the service bay, but when I opened it when in orbit, it wasn't there. What exactly is the service bay for? The smallest/first service bay you get.

You fell victim to the "transparent part" bug. Some parts (notoriously round batteries and probe cores) are prone to this - as you attach them to a node they snap all right but remain transparent, as if pulled right out of the part list before attaching. When you launch, the part is missing. Sometimes it's difficult to notice the part is still transparent.

If this happens, make sure to move your view and move your cursor so, that no other part remains under your cursor when you attach the tricky part. The right position can be recognized in that the part's outline changes shade to a bit more greenish. And the texture is fully opaque once you attach it.

[Jart]

A good tip is to attach the parts inside a service bay NOT using angle snap.