Discussion thread - BD Armory AI tournaments

[ZLM-Master]

Yop !

here's a quick weapon stats !

Vulcan Turret

roundsPerMinute = 5500

accuracy = 5

bulletMass = 9.85e-5

bulletVelocity = 1000

heatPerShot = 36

.50cal Turret

roundsPerMinute = 450

accuracy = 4

bulletMass = 5.40133e-5

bulletVelocity = 860

heatPerShot = 100

Vulcan (Hidden)

roundsPerMinute = 5500

accuracy = 5

bulletMass = 9.85e-5

bulletVelocity = 1000

heatPerShot = 36

M102 Howitzer (Radial)

roundsPerMinute = 13

accuracy = 25

bulletMass = 0.01497

bulletVelocity = 494

heatPerShot = 60

M230 Chain Gun Turret

roundsPerMinute = 625

accuracy = 5

bulletMass = 4.25e-4

bulletVelocity = 805

heatPerShot = 166

AIM-9 Sidewinder Missile

blastRadius = 25 //meters

blastPower = 12

AIM-120 AMRAAM Missile

blastRadius = 30 //meters

blastPower = 15

Heat generation & fire rate seems to be the main factor , let see how to deal with that !

I'm not check all weapon , not check ammo box too , there only here to generate resource .

Edited July 24, 2015 by ZLM-Master

[Darren9]

I think the heat per shot stuff is how quickly the gun overheats, it's combined with max heat. The only one I can remember is a flare has a 25% chance of distracting a missile (done by random number), that's why I use 4. The rest I've forgotten, there was some chance a bullet can ricochet I think, no idea if it was different per gun. It's all in the DB Armory thread in a couple of posts, in extreme detail, somewhere within the 100's of pages.

I wonder how close to the update he is, everything could change next week.

[Bob_Saget54]

Well, seems that everyone's throwing their fighters into the mix, might as well show mine.

I present to you the Mosquito Mk. II-A, the current primary fighter of the USKAF and the most advanced fighter to roll off the SAI assembly lines. Packing a punch of 1x30mm main cannon with 1200 rounds and 8 missiles, this fighter is more than a formidable opponent to any who stand in its way.

Also, a download for those who wish to pit it against their own craft: https://www.dropbox.com/s/cc62ow1968dxpsn/Mosquito%20Mk_%20II-A%20%28No%20Droptanks%29.craft?dl=0

[t3hJimmer]

@Bob_Saget54

I arranged a 2v2 deathmatch between your Mosquito's and my Destroyers.

At 91 parts each, the mosquitos were pushing the limits of my PC, but after a crash or two I captured this video:

I was able to get a load of early damage on your mosquitos, but they just shrugged it off and kept on fighting.

Here's the craft file for the F-4 Destroyer is anyone wants to take it for a spin:

http://pastebin.com/Vpp8Gsr9

[Bob_Saget54]

@t3hJimmer

Thank you for testing them out, and sorry for breaking your KSP twice XD.

Overall, I think that your fighters had the initial jump on me when it came to maneuverability off the start, but you might want to upgrade the caliber of your weapons for the wing segments.

Once again, thank you for testing them. As you could probably tell, they actually represent mosquitoes (Somewhat) in the fact that they are hard to bring down and they keep going even though they have loads of damage. I might have to change their name.....

[ZLM-Master]

Yop !

I update my craft with turbojet engine ( seems i was the only one with basic jet engine )

Speed & weapon increase , a bit more fuel too . They work in combo with different settings .

Model V3.0

Model V4.0

They are a bit better !

[colmo]

Hi all, I hear you on turrets. Fixed sounds reasonable. I need to play with them more, not sure how to restrict them to a narrow arc.

I made some videos last night but alas my old PC struggled, losing sound part way through each time. This is annoying, because there was some rather good, wine-fuelled commentary

Heat per shot is about the gun overheating. Bullet mass, accuracy, velocity and rate of fire are the most useful stats.

Edited July 24, 2015 by colmo

[keptin]

The Helion II-D fared pretty well against the Mosquito MkII-A. Bested it 5:2, with one draw. I forced FoV to 170 for the sake of fair combat--since let's be honest, you can't see 360.

Helion II-D craft file: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66999462/Helion%20IID.craft

Edited July 24, 2015 by keptin

[PixelStory]

I HAVE DONE IT!

Javascript is disabled. View full album

This craft has 80 parts! Anybody wanna go against it?

Download : http://kerbalx.com/PixelStory/The-X-Viper

Edited July 24, 2015 by PixelStory

[colmo]

The Helion II-D fared pretty well against the Mosquito MkII-A. Bested it 5:2, with one draw. I forced FoV to 170 for the sake of fair combat--since let's be honest, you can't see 360.

Helion II-D craft file: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66999462/Helion%20IID.craft

Sure you've got enough missiles, keptin?

That's an excellent example of why turrets must be fixed, they're way too good at close quarters, which the 5km guard mode range means this challenge necessarily is.

OK, I think we've hashed out the bones of the allowable guns - apart from the Goalkeeper and artillery weapons, any machine gun as long as it isn't able to swivel. We can have a gunship contest another time.

Missiles - I've only tried AMRAAMs and Sidewinders - do any of the others work?

I'll work out a few ballpark max and min size and weight specs for what is the fighter class.

Google says the Tu-28 was the largest interceptor ever, at 27.2m long, 18.1m wingspan, 40 metric tons weight. I very much doubt we'd need anything as big as that!

Less conclusive on the smallest, but the British Aerospace Hawk 200 is teeny, at length 11.38 m, wingspan 9.39 m, max takeoff weight: 9,101 kg. The Saab JAS 39 Gripen is actually lighter, 6,800 kg dry, 8,500 kg loaded, with wingspan of 8.4m

I don't think we need to rescale those kind of dimensions for KSP, they're comparable.

So we could say max length 30m, min length 10m, max weight 40, min weight 6, min wingspan 7m? I don't think we'd need a height restriction?

Edited July 24, 2015 by colmo

[Nemrav]

Although I'm not participating, I just think, for the sake of creativity, why are these rules being made (apart from the turret swivel) ? Until you have sufficient examples of "peanut plane always wins", it seems very arbitrary.. What if someone went 5.6 tons to make their craft more maneuverable, but wasn't exploity in the slightest, it would be banned even though it could be excellent.. I'm also not sure on the weapon restrictions, why couldn't an aircraft mount an arty weapon and hope for a lucky shot ?

edit: I do agree with part count limit though..

[DuoDex]

I am very interested in this thread. However, I think a stock only game would really only hurt the good idea you have here - I suggest allowing all mods, and classing each jet by top speed and mass at takeoff.

[colmo]

Although I'm not participating, I just think, for the sake of creativity, why are these rules being made (apart from the turret swivel) ? Until you have sufficient examples of "peanut plane always wins", it seems very arbitrary.. What if someone went 5.6 tons to make their craft more maneuverable, but wasn't exploity in the slightest, it would be banned even though it could be excellent.. I'm also not sure on the weapon restrictions, why couldn't an aircraft mount an arty weapon and hope for a lucky shot ?

edit: I do agree with part count limit though..

I'm being led by the poll results, which dictate that aircraft be classified somewhat. A manned cockpit weighs 1, turbofan engine 1.8, guns are 0.3 and up, full ammo box in region of 0.2 and up, so that's 3.3 'tonnes' already. It still needs an airframe, fuel and wings. A gunless jet could just use Sidewinders. it looks like a min weight restriction is barely necessary.

As for silly weapons, the point is to test aircraft rather than turn it into a wacky races type challenge. I fully intend to try an anything-goes contest another time - I have a suitably insane design in mind for the job

I am very interested in this thread. However, I think a stock only game would really only hurt the good idea you have here - I suggest allowing all mods, and classing each jet by top speed and mass at takeoff.

The poll disagrees, with a 30-9 stock-only preference.

Allowing all mods creates a nightmare for those running the challenges, as they have to ensure they're all installed. It also would hurt performance, and that's pushing it already in the challenge.

Edited July 24, 2015 by colmo

[DuoDex]

Why would that hurt performance? And if you use only the mods required for each plane, I don't see how that would be a 'nightmare'.

[colmo]

Why would that hurt performance? And if you use only the mods required for each plane, I don't see how that would be a 'nightmare'.

A number of us are using very old computers, so every little helps. Future contests will surely use mods (from a selected list seems sensible), but starting with a stock one seems simplest, as well as being the popular choice.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm now returning to the method of setup. This means we need a quick, practical method of positioning our planes exactly the same way every time, as even small variations in e.g. heading can greatly change the pattern of the battle.

Hyperedit was mentioned but there's the issue of heading, which I don't believe it control? Kerbal Konstructs could be used to create 4 launch sites. We could even just edit a persistence file. Ideas?

[Bob_Saget54]

I HAVE DONE IT!

Javascript is disabled. View full album

This craft has 80 parts! Anybody wanna go against it?

Sure, I'll test it against my craft. Download link?

[ZLM-Master]

A number of us are using very old computers, so every little helps. Future contests will surely use mods (from a selected list seems sensible), but starting with a stock one seems simplest, as well as being the popular choice.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm now returning to the method of setup. This means we need a quick, practical method of positioning our planes exactly the same way every time, as even small variations in e.g. heading can greatly change the pattern of the battle.

Hyperedit was mentioned but there's the issue of heading, which I don't believe it control? Kerbal Konstructs could be used to create 4 launch sites. We could even just edit a persistence file. Ideas?

Yop !

I just rotate craft in the SPH before launch them , can't find more easy way !

But 4 Launch site can be interesting too !

[PixelStory]

Sure, I'll test it against my craft. Download link?

Sorry I forgot the link . How do I make one

[Bob_Saget54]

Sorry I forgot the link . How do I make one

Well, first you need to upload the craft to a site that does that kind of stuff, like dropbox or KerbalX. Then you gotta take the link to the file and post it here.

[ZLM-Master]

Sounds good to me

Any thoughts on point system for the weapons?

For arguments sake I'll throw this out there:

Missiles - 3 points per

Cannons - 9 points per

Ammo cans - 4 points per

Countermeasures - 5 points per

Max points - 60

Possible Load-outs with this system:

Missile boat:

1 cannon

1 ammo can

4 Countermeasures

9 missiles

Gun Bed:

4 cannons

3 ammo cans

2 Countermeasures

Hybrid:

2 cannon

1 ammo can

4 countermeasures

6 missiles

Or maybe we should go through as assign each weapon a point value (AMRAAM-2 per, Sidwinder-3 per, HE-KV1 - 1 per)?

I really like your pts system , that will prevent insane weapon craft !

For now with your system , i got one 61 PT Craft & one 52 PT Craft , need a small tweak

EDIT : Just realize that 60/3=20 and 20 missiles on the same craft seems to be a bit more !?!

Edited July 24, 2015 by ZLM-Master

[PixelStory]

Here you go! http://kerbalx.com/PixelStory/The-X-Viper

If you don't mind recording that would be great

[keptin]

I agree that a fixed gun rule is a good idea--turrets are just way too powerful. I'd also put a limit on countermeasure pods--and missiles/guns for that matter, so that missiles have a chance to hit, but actually run out. Someone could easily build a wacky races plane with 50 missiles or ten 30mm cannons.

A part count or weight limit might prevent part spamming.

[Noname117]

I agree that a fixed gun rule is a good idea--turrets are just way too powerful. I'd also put a limit on countermeasure pods--and missiles/guns for that matter, so that missiles have a chance to hit, but actually run out. Someone could easily build a wacky races plane with 50 missiles or ten 30mm cannons.

A part count or weight limit might prevent part spamming.

We already have both a part count and weight limit, and are currently working on a weaponry limit. I'm going to be looking at the stats of all weapons which I think should be allowed and posting them here, and I might do some tests for the ones people would use for air to air combat less often.

Edited July 24, 2015 by Noname117

[ZLM-Master]

Yop !

My last update :

V3.0 ( 58 PTS )

V4.0 ( 58 PTS )

[Noname117]

Yop !

My last update :

V3.0 ( 58 PTS )

V4.0 ( 58 PTS )

Do remember that the points system for weapons is not decided upon yet, and likely needs adjusting, right?