Pro SSTO builder/pilot Challenge

[Stoney3K]

Refuel is not allowed

ISRU and mining is allowed. I have already attempted an SSTEverywhere "Neagle Infinity" however I messed up the COM/COL shift and on empty reentry lost 4 kerbals (and someone else also lost 4 kerbals) So if I fixed it I would have to add in -400ish points)

Well, if you have enough tankage on board to land on Minmus and come back with (almost) full tanks you can rack up unlimited points provided you have enough time. Just take off, drop a few Kerbals in orbit, land on Minmus, fill up the tanks with mined fuel, land on Kerbin, repeat.

The only thing you would need is a plane that is big enough to return from Minmus and land on Kerbin with enough fuel to make it back up.

[The_Rocketeer]

You are a monoprop guzzler! You used half of it, I'm impressed

Well, I could have docked on less without much trouble, but the way I see it monoprop has only one purpose on a SSTO (docking), whereas LF+O are much more valuable resources. I'd rather have a large tank of mono and use it all than have to eat into my LF+O even for a few dV. Perhaps not the best strategy for high points I grant you

Also, something not entirely clear from the pics is that the docking happened about 50m below the 100k mark. My station must've got tugged off it's 100k orbit by a previous docking, and it has no RCS aboard, so I used the Whale's RCS and pushed them both back up above 100k before I detached. I can't see why that'd be outside the rules since it used more fuel than otherwise have done and it's exactly what real craft, including the STS on one occasion, do for the ISS due to orbital decay.

[Nich]

Getting a craft to Minimus is not easy but is quite doable. Landing with enough fuel to take off again would be extremely challenging. Doing it no save no revert nearly impossible. If anyone can accomplish 20 trips within the rules of the competition I will award you infinity points and give you the I BROKE the PRO SSTO challenge badge for both the builder and Pilot.

Only 2 badges will be given away

Requires TONS of pics

Requires a new SAVE "Custom career" with max science returns and funds (to make life easier) All reverts saves and cheats disabled (Include screen shot).

All flights must be documented including fund raising and science gathering.

All contracts completed must be documented.

Builder must complete the challenge before a Pilot can attempt.

Must be Verified/approved by 3 SSTO masters

Runners up will all receive a Perpetual Motion SSTO badge. Runners up only require 1 approval

[SpaceplaneAddict]

Jeb always told me, MOAR boosters is always better. Valentina now tells me that SSTO's always need MOAR engines... I MUST GO FURTHER!

[GoSlash27]

Nich,

As much fun as that would be (and I'm confident I could do it), I won't be participating in that.

I only design and build SSTOs to shuttle between KSC and stations in LKO, and then only with kerbals and supplies that can be transferred through a docking port. Anything beyond that is (IMO) an egregious waste of resources.

I view SSTO spaceplanes as glorified delivery vans that are very good at accomplishing that small part of the mission, but inefficient for the rest of it.

I am interested in seeing what the rest of you folks come up with, tho'

Best,

-Slashy

[Vegetal]

Well, I tried to fly the Hostess.....and gave up 15 min later when I switched to closed cycle. Yes, it took 15 minutes to climb all that way on 2 to 3 fps

Sorry man, it's just waaaay too laggy to fly. I suspect it handles nicely....just suspect, because I have no idea

And Nich, that Minmus challenge is interesting, but there's no way I'm going to that trouble. Grinding contracts and science just to build that craft and then making 20 round trips? Nah... I may build the craft just to see if it's possible.

[The_Rocketeer]

Well, I tried to fly the Hostess.....and gave up 15 min later when I switched to closed cycle. Yes, it took 15 minutes to climb all that way on 2 to 3 fps

Sorry man, it's just waaaay too laggy to fly. I suspect it handles nicely....just suspect, because I have no idea

No worries Vegetal, at least you got her off the ground! I'm already working on a slimline version hopefully someone with an uber-PC will come fly her for me!

[Vegetal]

I'll just leave this here:

http://imgur.com/a/aVeDq

Will post craft file tomorrow, but I warn you: She's a b1tch to fly.

[SpaceplaneAddict]

If I had a say, mining SSTO, and the ISRU is in orbit, am I allowed to make use of said ISRU?

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We can do *minor* part clipping, right? it doesn't say in the rules, Because I needed to shove part of an ore tank into an ISRU to make room for the drill...

[Nefrums]

No worries Vegetal, at least you got her off the ground! I'm already working on a slimline version hopefully someone with an uber-PC will come fly her for me!

I'll might try it, it looks fun, I have been able to fly 500 part ships with playable fps before. Docking it to a large station might be a problem thou.

[SpaceplaneAddict]

Back in 0.90, I always thought, if I had enought rocket delta-v to match orbit speed, then, I would have an SSTO. I wonder if the same principle applies now?

[Nich]

1. I can not believe she is not falling out of the sky at 86 m/s what is the fully fulled mass?

2. Looks like you found the KSA tundra biome. I found that once but was never able to find it again.

3. And here I thought I was being generous giving infinity points for only 20 missions lol.

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I personally will not fly badly clipped craft. Someone else may be willing too though.

No you can not use an ISRU unless it is part of the ship.

I think you need about 2700 atmopheric dv to make orbit on a staged rocket with a high TWR. Not sure on an SSTO Spaceplane.

[Stoney3K]

Getting a craft to Minimus is not easy but is quite doable. Landing with enough fuel to take off again would be extremely challenging. Doing it no save no revert nearly impossible. If anyone can accomplish 20 trips within the rules of the competition I will award you infinity points and give you the I BROKE the PRO SSTO challenge badge for both the builder and Pilot.

That would mean you need to make 20 laps of takeoff, transfer, landing, mining, takeoff, return to Kerbin, re-entry, land on Kerbin and take off again. IN A SINGLE GAME SESSION. I suspect my girlfriend will call the mental health department by the time I reach lap number 3, because I need sleep...

OTOH, KSP would have crashed before you reach a good handful of laps anyway.

Re. part clipping: I will only clip parts because of cosmetics. If a part doesn't fit where I want it to go, clipping is cheating and asking for bugs.

Edited September 4, 2015 by Stoney3K

[Vegetal]

1. I can not believe she is not falling out of the sky at 86 m/s what is the fully fulled mass?

2. Looks like you found the KSA tundra biome. I found that once but was never able to find it again.

3. And here I thought I was being generous giving infinity points for only 20 missions lol.

To be fair Nich, I had to quick load quite a few times after reentry, I told you she was a b1tch right? This was the first design, no revisions, and it was very flip happy. It was almost falling out of the sky on that pic. As I said, I'm making this just to see if it's possible, and by the looks of it, it really is.

Ah the tundra biome. If you fly a little around the shores you will find it. KER helps with that too.

About the length... Well, this single round trip I made took a couple of hours I guess. Making this 20 times in a row is just insane. And as stoney said, at that point ksp will just have crashed.

When I get to my desktop today I will post the revised version of the craft. This one is more stable and actually has RCS thrusters (the first version only had the monoprop). It's still hard to fly though...

[Nefrums]

Test Flight of "SSSP 100 - Hostess":

The ship flew quite well at the start.

The game was going at about 60% normal speed but fps was ok. The strange thing that i noticed was that neater cpu nor gpu was showing any significant load, so I'm really curious what is is that is making the game slow.

At about 30km I started to loose control, the ship slowly started to pith up. I managed to regain control by enabling gimbal on some of the rapiers.

I calculated the remaining dv in orbit to be around 1700. KER was acting up and not showing it.

twr was a bit low so i needed a 10 min burn to get to minmus.

I lost control of the ship on the first aerobraking pass, luckily I had been a bit cautious and only had the PE at 50km.

After moving all reaming full as far forward as possible the ship flew a bit better. I had no truble controling the ship during the second aerobrake. I undershot KCS and ran out of fuel, I had to land on the other side of the mountans.

Landing was very easy, the ship had a lot of lift and I touched down at less than 50 m/s. I kept the ship pointing very close the the prograde marker.

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100 kerbals delivered to minmus orbit

cost ~62.700

Edited September 4, 2015 by Nefrums

[The_Rocketeer]

Test Flight of "SSSP 100 - Hostess":

The ship flew quite well at the start.

The game was going at about 60% normal speed but fps was ok. The strange thing that i noticed was that neater cpu nor gpu was showing any significant load, so I'm really curious what is is that is making the game slow.

At about 30km I started to loose control, the ship slowly started to pith up. I managed to regain control by enabling gimbal on some of the rapiers.

I calculated the remaining dv in orbit to be around 1700. KER was acting up and not showing it.

twr was a bit low so i needed a 10 min burn to get to minmus.

I lost control of the ship on the first aerobraking pass, luckily I had been a bit cautious and only had the PE at 50km.

After moving all reaming full as far forward as possible the ship flew a bit better. I had no truble controling the ship during the second aerobrake. I undershot KCS and ran out of fuel, I had to land on the other side of the mountans.

Landing was very easy, the ship had a lot of lift and I touched down at less than 50 m/s. I kept the ship pointing very close the the prograde marker.

http://imgur.com/a/MkOM9

100 kerbals delivered to minmus orbit

cost ~62.700

Nice work Nefrums! I'm pretty sure the control issues are related to shifting CoM, due to all the Oxidiser mass being behind the CoL on the way up, and the abundance of lift and spread mass distribution on the way down. Shifting fuel mass forward is exactly what I would have suggested. Did you follow to my suggestions about disabling fuel feed? If so perhaps disabling fuel feel from the other forward tanks on the way up would deal with the problem.

I started on a design evolution yesterday but then realised that 100 kerbs to anywhere is totally excessive (unless you're literally colonising :-p). I threw together a 48 seater that I might submit a variant of sometime soon. Drag is a big problem for Mk 3 parts whatever you're building - u can't add moar thrust anywhere without increasing the drag profile, and since all the engines have specific roles it's a nightmare balancing everything!

Edited September 4, 2015 by The_Rocketeer

[Vegetal]

Nich, what about a plane that goes to Duna or other planets? I have an idea

As promised, the AES Torus: http://1drv.ms/1PR9ANG

[SpaceplaneAddict]

I know it's been sometime since I entered this challenge, but can I have that Builders reward now? Thanks

[Przemqo]

Hey, I am just starting posting, but I made a SSTO, and reached Orbit, is somebody willing to check it? Up until 10km, slowly ascend until 1200 m/s pitch up, 1 to switch engine mode and burn to circularize. Thanks!

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Craft : https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByYBSGIZqgvvRkR5SzhhbWlSMVk/view?usp=sharing (I added airbrake and removed Monoprop, but it does not change flying characteristics)

[SpaceplaneAddict]

Przemqo, I be happy to try it. Looks like my early attempts to SSTO in 0.90 without airhogging. Very neat design though, compact and minimal. Just 1(ONE?!) RAPIER?! My oh my, you have patience.

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Lol, just realized I don't have a Space Station. Looks like I'll be using my prototype SSTO as a replacement. I'm sure Bill really wants to go home now....

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Pre-Flight check complete, all systems are go. 1 thing worry's me, the Rocket mode Delta-V. Mechjeb is saying you only have just over 1 kilometre per second. Frankly, I don't think I will be meeting up with anything in orbit. I'll give it a shot though.

Changes to aircraft:

Swapped battery for 2 radial batteries.

Removed docking port, I don't see any Monoprop or RCS thrusters

Removed Canards, not really needed.

Moved Gear forward to acomadate new CoL and CoM

Edited September 7, 2015 by SpaceplaneAddict

[SpaceplaneAddict]

I was skeptical, but I made it to orbit, with not much to spare. TWR was awesome, despite my first look. Perfect for someone as impatient as me. Managed a sloppy 80 x 87km orbit, not my best work, not even close. I wasnèt able to rendezvous with my tourist SSTO, parked in LKO, so no points there, I guess. Flight cost was 568 Kredits, cheapest flight I've ever piloted. Lol. I was in sandbox mode, but managed to land at KSC, so, I'm guessing full recovery points. would've done it in my career save, if I had the tech. . Epicly responsive, I reentered in 4x time warp, and I did some crazy aerobrake maneuvers. Stayed together fine, nothing broke.

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P.S Can I have my Masters degree in SSTOing now?

[Starhawk]

P.S Can I have my Masters degree in SSTOing now?

You've qualified as a Pro SSTO Master!

Go ahead and take your badge.

Happy landings!

[SpaceplaneAddict]

By the way, Przemqo, you are clear for your Pro SSTO Builder badge. I think. Probably.

[Przemqo]

Well, thank you very much for trying:) I was hoping to use it as a carrier to station (hence docking port), but of course I forgot about RCS xD

To apply for Master I should fly someone else's or just show more proof that I did it with mine?

the point of canards and battery was purely look, ain't it a beauty with that instead these greeny, bulky batteries on side?;p

Edited September 8, 2015 by Przemqo

[SpaceplaneAddict]

Meh, radial batteries are massless (I think). Yeah, it would be a NIGHTMARE to try and dock using just reaction wheel torque. If ya want, you can just offset the (radial) batteries into the fuselage, so they're hidden. I could probably do better with it, if I went for another flight, and that would add up the Dev cost.

P.S For your Master's degree in SSTOing, you have to fly another user's craft.

SPAddict, out.