[WIP][1.8.x] SSTULabs - Low Part Count Solutions (Orbiters, Landers, Lifters) - Dev Thread [11-18-18]

[Shadowmage]

That is the whole problem.  Yes, I could mangle it through code, by breaking the thrust transforms off of the model, repositioning the model, and re-parenting the transforms (requires tracking the exact position and angle relative to the model, which might be different for each model; and you still can't change the # of transforms, so a 4-port will always be a 4-port).  The problem is that it requires 1:  More code, and 2: more models.  I have enough code and models to take care of already, don't need to add more anytime soon.  I'm also not convinced on the need for this -- these RCS ports are intended for use on prebuilt parts, where any RCS-arm stuff will already be present and built onto the model (e.g. I do not plan on releasing these RCS ports as individual usable parts; they are intended for me to use as a development asset, to allow for consistent-looking RCS models across the new parts).

-Maybe- at some point in the future I'll consider this, as I was already considering making a 'pre-welded' set of RCS ports (e.g. all 4 quads in a single part, with adjustment to set the diameter/spacing of them).  At that point it wouldn't be too much more effort to add the movement/swapping of the mounting arms into the code (would make the arms completely separate models from the quads, so that the transform adjustment does not even come into the equation; just reposition the base model to be correct relative to the arm).  However, these are not planned for anytime soon, if at all.

Basically, no, I will not be having swappable RCS geometry for their initial use cases (where they will be pre-built onto the Service Modules, and used to replace the stock RCS on the modular upper stage parts).  I might consider it in the future, but that will be many months out.

 

 

[Jimbodiah]

Screw IVAs   Just need the parts 

Why hasn't Angel released those parts in a mod? They look awesome and I use his containers and Buffalo rover as well.

Also a shame the US-Probes/Skylab mods are no longer maintained, they had some awesome models in there. They keep crashing, else I would still use them.

Edited December 11, 2015 by Jimbodiah

[Shadowmage]

6 minutes ago, blowfish said:

It's possible that calling OnStart() again on ModuleRCS will cause it to reload the transforms.  Might have unintended side effects though.

Side effects - yes -- last I tried it did not re-initialize the effects properly.  You would end up with duplicate effects (one set stuck always on, the other set responding properly).  Same problem I had when trying to swap around geometry for the engine-clusters and why we ended up with one-part-per-engine-per-number.  Stock code is really not friendly to procedural models and parts...

 

 

[Shadowmage]

 

 

Edited December 12, 2015 by Shadowmage

[ComatoseJedi]

You, sir are a steely eyed missile man!

[FiiZzioN]

As I'm still pretty new to this mod pack, how well do the engines work without anything else in the pack? Are they made to where they'll function with a normal modded KSP install, or do I need the entire mod to get everything working? I'm asking mainly because, personally, these are some of the best engine models I'v ever seen. The downside though is KSP is still in 32bit and my install is already taking a bit of a beating... Oh man, I can't wait to finally use a decent chunk of my 16Gb of ram so this won't be an issue anymore.

Edited December 12, 2015 by FiiZzioN

[ComatoseJedi]

16 minutes ago, FiiZzioN said:

As I'm still pretty new to this mod pack, how well do the engines work without anything else in the pack? Are they made to where they fit in will with normal modded KSP install, or do I need the entire mod to get everything working? I'm asking mainly because, personally, these are some of the best engine models I'v ever seen ...

I can speak from experience that this mod pack will replace almost every engine pack you have, other than the special ones. From what I understand, you can use this mod alone to make your lifter packages, but I recommend KJR just to keep part count minimal and to keep everything together. I could be wrong, but you will need the entire mod for it to work, because Shadowmage created a special way to adjust engine spacing, mount size and texture, tank texture and size and more. Now he's added MFT and Realplume to enhance it. I have a heavy modded install and it works perfectly for me. I'm actually in the process of cutting out engine and tank mods so I can reduce part load count and rely on this for my heavy lifting needs with lfo engines. A bonus to this pack is that Shadowmage is constantly working on this, so every week you have something new to add to your ksp experience and he keeps you in the loop on what's going on, too. 

Edited December 12, 2015 by lynwoodm
changed information

[Shadowmage]

13 minutes ago, FiiZzioN said:

As I'm still pretty new to this mod pack, how well do the engines work without anything else in the pack? Are they made to where they'll function with a normal modded KSP install, or do I need the entire mod to get everything working? I'm asking mainly because, personally, these are some of the best engine models I'v ever seen ...

Designed to be fully compatible with stock and/or stock-balanced mods.  You can certainly use just the engine clusters if you want, and they will work just fine.  Please keep in mind that the engines use several other models for the mounts, so you will need to leave those models+textures in place as well as the engines.  In theory you could patch out even that requirement, leaving only the engine models and textures, but you are on your own for that one (feel free to ask if you get stuck though).

 

[ComatoseJedi]

2 minutes ago, Shadowmage said:

Designed to be fully compatible with stock and/or stock-balanced mods.  You can certainly use just the engine clusters if you want, and they will work just fine.  Please keep in mind that the engines use several other models for the mounts, so you will need to leave those models+textures in place as well as the engines.  In theory you could patch out even that requirement, leaving only the engine models and textures, but you are on your own for that one (feel free to ask if you get stuck though).

 

I figured there was a catch to just using the engines, but I just install the entire mod. Everything is great for my needs in one mod. 

[FiiZzioN]

4 minutes ago, lynwoodm said:

I can speak from experience that this mod pack will replace almost every engine pack you have, other than the special ones. From what I understand, you can use this mod alone to make your lifter packages, but I recommend KJR just to keep part count minimal and to keep everything together. I could be wrong, but you will need the entire mod for it to work, because Shadowmage created a special way to adjust engine spacing, mount size and texture, tank texture and size and more. Now he's added MFT and Realplume to enhance it. I have a heavy modded install and it works perfectly for me. I'm actually in the process of cutting out engine and tank mods so I can reduce part load count and rely on this for my heavy lifting needs with lfo engines. A bonus to this pack is that Shadowmage is constantly working on this, so every week you have something new to add to your ksp experience and he keeps you in the loop on what's going on, too. 

3 minutes ago, Shadowmage said:

Designed to be fully compatible with stock and/or stock-balanced mods.  You can certainly use just the engine clusters if you want, and they will work just fine.  Please keep in mind that the engines use several other models for the mounts, so you will need to leave those models+textures in place as well as the engines.  In theory you could patch out even that requirement, leaving only the engine models and textures, but you are on your own for that one (feel free to ask if you get stuck though).

 

 

Well thank you both for the quick answers. Reason I'm asking is because I'm still on 1.0.4 and am debating going to 1.0.5. I really am not a fan about the whole, "Every plugin / mod author has finally updated their mods, but then a new kerbal release comes two weeks later". So I'm debating if I want to go through the task of updating everything, and then right after that the announcement of 1.1 comes out.

Thanks for the help guys!

[ComatoseJedi]

20 minutes ago, FiiZzioN said:

 

Well thank you both for the quick answers. Reason I'm asking is because I'm still on 1.0.4 and am debating going to 1.0.5. I really am not a fan about the whole, "Every plugin / mod author has finally updated their mods, but then a new kerbal release comes two weeks later". So I'm debating if I want to go through the task of updating everything, and then right after that the announcement of 1.1 comes out.

Thanks for the help guys!

You definitely have to choose your mods wisely, especially if you are debating on updating to 1.0.5. The thing about the new update is that they fixed a lot of bugs (especially that heat problem) that were effecting game play and this update is the first step towards 1.1 in a sense. But, it's your game, you can do what you will with it. I -think- this mod is compatible with 1.0.4, but I'm not sure about that since I haven't played this on 1.0.4 and only started using it since the update. Shadow can answer that question better than I can since he has his hands in it all the time. But, the weekends are usually pretty busy for him since he usually puts out a dev release of the next features. Or at least that's what's been -planned-. 

[Shadowmage]

Updated testing release is available:

https://github.com/shadowmage45/SSTULabs/releases/tag/0.3.24-pre1

See the link for change-log.  Highlights are new parts and modules (SC-A-CM and SC-A-BPC), and opening things up under open-source licenses.

 

 

 

[FiiZzioN]

4 hours ago, lynwoodm said:

You definitely have to choose your mods wisely, especially if you are debating on updating to 1.0.5. The thing about the new update is that they fixed a lot of bugs (especially that heat problem) that were effecting game play and this update is the first step towards 1.1 in a sense. But, it's your game, you can do what you will with it. I -think- this mod is compatible with 1.0.4, but I'm not sure about that since I haven't played this on 1.0.4 and only started using it since the update. Shadow can answer that question better than I can since he has his hands in it all the time. But, the weekends are usually pretty busy for him since he usually puts out a dev release of the next features. Or at least that's what's been -planned-. 

As lynwoodm said, he thinks this mod is compatible with 1.0.4 but it's be nice to get an official word if that's true or not.

[ComatoseJedi]

"NO IVA - don't ask..." Lol... adding a feasible iva on a 3 man pod with almost identical placement with the mk 1-2 pod, you can always insert the basic iva for that, or go aset with it, until you can get your own iva up and running. 3 man pods that resemble the mk 1-2 usually get a patch made to use the aset version of the mk 1-2 pod anyways. 

[Jimbodiah]

Gheghe, having a blast with the new parts, Mage! That abort rocket is awesome!!!  That thing will reach 16km altitude from the ground

 

Edited December 13, 2015 by Jimbodiah

[RedParadize]

I have a complain:

The Apollo capsule is too cool. Jeb no more want to fly the Orion, discarding billion of dollars of investment.

Please nerf the Apollo.

Edit:
One minor thing: There is two bottom nodes, the one with the decoupler is the highest one, and that one is above the heat shield.

Edited December 13, 2015 by RedParadize

[ComatoseJedi]

I have a quick question. Did you design these rocket engines (especially the bigger ones) to utilize launch clamps to get off the ground? I tried on several occasions to launch without launch clamps and it just stood there like a smoking log. I think it's something to do with adjusting your engine spacing, because I always use the the F1 series to get off the ground, but most of them are designed for a 7 m rocket. So, i shrink it down a notch to fit a 5 m rocket and i have to adjust the engine spacing to fit the engines under the chosen mount. I got to thinking about part clipping with the engines and tried to avoid that as much as possible and it still stuck to the ground. 

I guess if I want to use adjusted engine specs, it's just easier for me to use launch clamps to raise the rocket up off the ground a smidge, ignite the rocket and turn it loose. works perfectly like that. I'm just not fond of launch clamps because things get jiggy sometimes with them and cause a kraken to happen. I will post screenshots as soon as possible to show. 

But, other than that, your new cm is wonderful. I seen the issues six posted and I concur with most of them (staging the parachutes, no fairing between the decoupler and heatshield, etc). But, I know this is a working dev release and you'll address all those problems whenever you get around to it, so don't take it as me rushing ya. If you'd like, I can make ya an aset mk 1-2 patch file, except there won't be a hatch door where you have it, but it will be functional enough until you get around to making the IVA's yourself so that people who are complaining about immersion, will have no excuse with this cm. I will even throw in new interior textures for the panel and inside skin if you'd like lol.. 

[Shadowmage]

3 hours ago, FiiZzioN said:

As lynwoodm said, he thinks this mod is compatible with 1.0.4 but it's be nice to get an official word if that's true or not.

Prior releases will be compatible.  Todays' release takes advantage of some of the new 1.05 code changes, so might not be compatible; I have not tested.

[RedParadize]

9 minutes ago, lynwoodm said:

I have a quick question. Did you design these rocket engines (especially the bigger ones) to utilize launch clamps to get off the ground? I tried on several occasions to launch without launch clamps and it just stood there like a smoking log. I think it's something to do with adjusting your engine spacing, because I always use the the F1 series to get off the ground, but most of them are designed for a 7 m rocket. So, i shrink it down a notch to fit a 5 m rocket and i have to adjust the engine spacing to fit the engines under the chosen mount. I got to thinking about part clipping with the engines and tried to avoid that as much as possible and it still stuck to the ground.  

 

Thats a stock bug, or is not exclusive to SSTU. I had that bug on several occasion, way before I start using SSTU.

Edit: It might not be related but from my experience, it seem to happen more often with heavy rocket. 

Edited December 13, 2015 by RedParadize

[ComatoseJedi]

2 minutes ago, RedParadize said:

Thats a stock bug, or is not exclusive to SSTU. I had that bug on several occasion, way before I start using SSTU.

Alright, so it's beyond the control of anyone, except to the developers of squad.

[Shadowmage]

6 minutes ago, RedParadize said:

Thats a stock bug, or is not exclusive to SSTU. I had that bug on several occasion, way before I start using SSTU.

Edit: It might not be related but from my experience, it seem to happen more often with heavy rocket. 

It is a stock bug.  it is related to any engine with multiple flat colliders on the bottom.  For the engine clusters, wiggle the gimbal, and it should take off   Higher TWR rockets will break free by themselves.

But yes, as launch clamps exist, I don't really consider it too much of a problem.  Probably shouldn't be landing on engine bells anyway

15 minutes ago, lynwoodm said:

But, other than that, your new cm is wonderful. I seen the issues six posted and I concur with most of them (staging the parachutes, no fairing between the decoupler and heatshield, etc). But, I know this is a working dev release and you'll address all those problems whenever you get around to it, so don't take it as me rushing ya. If you'd like, I can make ya an aset mk 1-2 patch file, except there won't be a hatch door where you have it, but it will be functional enough until you get around to making the IVA's yourself so that people who are complaining about immersion, will have no excuse with this cm. I will even throw in new interior textures for the panel and inside skin if you'd like lol.. 

Thanks   Yes, there is still a lot to be done, hence why it is a pre-release, and all the notes of WIP in the release notes.

IVA - it already has the stock mk1-2 iva in-place; but you cannot see out of the windows due to the parachute cap geometry (or at least not on my setup).  You might be able to rotate / offset the IVA model like you can with MODEL node definitions, but I have not tried yet.  I intend to get at least the basic IVA shell geometry in-place in one of the next releases, but might still be better to use the stock one for the time being.

 

 

[Shadowmage]

1 hour ago, RedParadize said:

I have a complain:

The Apollo capsule is too cool. Jeb no more want to fly the Orion, discarding billion of dollars of investment.

Please nerf the Apollo.

Edit:
One minor thing: There is two bottom nodes, the one with the decoupler is the highest one, and that one is above the heat shield.

LoL

On a serious noe though,  I will be changing the stats around a bit in the near future, after the SM has been developed; same with the BPC.  I just kind of 'guessed' at some initial stats.  It probably is a bit light for all the amenities that it has,

 

Yep, the top/interior node (with the decoupler) is intended to be used with the upcoming service module.  However, the SM is not ready yet.  The lower node is intended to be used for... other... setups, and you have to use your own decoupler; the lower node will also have an auto-fairing on it (just like the SC-B-CM with its two node setup).

 

Edited December 13, 2015 by Shadowmage

[RedParadize]

Yeah I edited the config. Added one of your wonderfull fairing module and changed the decoupling node to the lower one. That should be good enough for now.

Oh, another thing, if you do this:

Spoiler

MODEL
{
    model = SSTU/Assets/SC-B-131a-DP
    position = 0, 0.86586, 0
    scale = 0.55, 0.55, 0.55
}

The docking port fit the inner ring of the standard Clamp-o-tron docking port, It looks legit to me.

 

And again another edit:

Question1: What file I need to edit to change the Intestage Petal Adapter weight ?

Question2: Does your parachute module take in consideration ground elevation ? Better not land on ground! Can we edit full deployment altitude ?

Edited December 13, 2015 by RedParadize

[ComatoseJedi]

35 minutes ago, Shadowmage said:

It is a stock bug.  it is related to any engine with multiple flat colliders on the bottom.  For the engine clusters, wiggle the gimbal, and it should take off   Higher TWR rockets will break free by themselves.

But yes, as launch clamps exist, I don't really consider it too much of a problem.  Probably shouldn't be landing on engine bells anyway

Thanks   Yes, there is still a lot to be done, hence why it is a pre-release, and all the notes of WIP in the release notes.

IVA - it already has the stock mk1-2 iva in-place; but you cannot see out of the windows due to the parachute cap geometry (or at least not on my setup).  You might be able to rotate / offset the IVA model like you can with MODEL node definitions, but I have not tried yet.  I intend to get at least the basic IVA shell geometry in-place in one of the next releases, but might still be better to use the stock one for the time being.

 

 

LOL.. okay, use clamps.. rgr that. As far as the IVA goes, I can do it for me on this pod and no, i will not complain if something goes wrong. I always back that stuff up anyways. I don't think I can post a file without citing all the licensing stuff anyways and I'm too lazy to go looking for it. There is a how to guide on how to do that, except I've been messing around with the diffuse textures on the inside and it actually makes a difference, if you are going for the "Pimp My CM" thing. I've done it to all my other 3 man pods that look similar. But, yes, I can understand wanting to stick to basic for the time being, due to still making the mod and all. 

[FiiZzioN]

1 hour ago, Shadowmage said:

Prior releases will be compatible.  Todays' release takes advantage of some of the new 1.05 code changes, so might not be compatible; I have not tested.

Thanks for the quick response! For right now, at least until 1.1 comes out, I'm thinking of using mainly the engines from this pack because they are so freaking gorgeous. The other parts are beautiful as well, but the ram limit is hitting me hard, and those are the things I want the most. I seriously can't wait for the 64bit update... I can finally use all of the wonderful mods I've found and wanted without having to take them apart piece-by-piece to stay under the ram limit. Depending on how I prune my mods in a few days I may actually be able to get most, if not all of this mod installed. 

Keep up the stunning work, Mage! Well, time for me to lurk this thread as well as your repo...