[WIP][1.8.x] SSTULabs - Low Part Count Solutions (Orbiters, Landers, Lifters) - Dev Thread [11-18-18]

[tater]

Yeah, I can get them to work with the setup you show, above. I was using a mixture of LF and other tanks for a Duna/Mars vehicle because I wanted a more streamlined look (even if it doesn't matter in the game as is).

The SAS stuff is odd, and I think my issues were not being up to date on SSTU on my career save (I have a pure, SSTU test build as well).

One thing is that if the upper stage tanks and SMs have SAS, and the command pods have it, then it sort of defeats the purpose of having a SM. Of course in that case you still want SAS for reentry, etc, so redundancy is OK as long as they don't fight with each other.

From a play balance (stock feel), I can see some point in the pilot vs sci/eng kerbal distinction, though I end up throwing probes on everything anyway. One interesting idea for balance that leaves all the "probe" stuff intact is very low, or nil torque SAS, so that the pod can steer, but MUST use RCS to do so. Then maybe the SM has the flywheel... just throwing stuff out there, I have to go for a hike, will post more tonight.

[blowfish]

@tater Couple of things:

1. You can have as many SAS modules on a craft as you want.  They don't conflict - it's not the SAS module that's stabilizing the ship, the game just checks the highest available SAS level and then handles it on a per-vessel basis.
2. I think you might be slightly confused between SAS and reaction wheels.  SAS provides stability assistance but doesn't actually create any torque by itself.  Reaction wheels provide torque based on input but do not stabilize - they're separate modules.

[Shadowmage]

21 hours ago, StickyScissors said:

@Shadowmage Here we are, hopefully void of all parts other than SSTU and stock: https://www.dropbox.com/s/odpybu16481ri4n/Testcraft.craft?dl=0

Thanks, will be investigating this within the next few days/sometime this week.  Would be nice to know what is causing it.

 

15 hours ago, Andem said:

Will thease be released in one pack or several? I could see the lander parts being in a second pack entirely...

One pack for the foreseeable future.  Due to the texture sharing it is nearly impossible to separate the parts into clean packs; and as stated, it would add unnecessary time and complexity to the development process.

 

10 hours ago, SpaceBadger007 said:

This is probably a stupid suggestion but would there be a chance in adding in the M-1 rocket engine?

Possible, but not likely, and certainly not within the next few months.

 

3 hours ago, Qwarkk said:

Will there be a patch file available to give us the option of changing the engines ISP/Fuel back to Liquid Fuel instead of Liquid Hydrogen? 

I think it would be good to keep the mod flexible in this aspect.

Yes, with the 1.1 update.  It will nerf the engine isp, use LFO (or mono) all around, boost some thrusts for smaller/upper stage engines, and 'kerbalize' the command pod masses and SM fuel/dV.  Will likely also slightly increase the dry mass of the tanks, as they are a slight bit lower than stock at the moment.

 

[Jimbodiah]

What would be the point of downgrading these engines to LF/O again? LH/O has advantages in weight and ISP, and as you have SSTU installed the fuel is there anyway.

[JoseEduardo]

higher thrust, as IIRC LF/O acts similarly as Kerolox

EDIT: having a little fun replacing some stuff

Edited March 20, 2016 by JoseEduardo

[Jimbodiah]

Make a dream-chaser XL out of it.

[tater]

3 hours ago, blowfish said:

@tater Couple of things:

1. You can have as many SAS modules on a craft as you want.  They don't conflict - it's not the SAS module that's stabilizing the ship, the game just checks the highest available SAS level and then handles it on a per-vessel basis.
2. I think you might be slightly confused between SAS and reaction wheels.  SAS provides stability assistance but doesn't actually create any torque by itself.  Reaction wheels provide torque based on input but do not stabilize - they're separate modules.

I wasn't sure if the craft got confused with where the controlling part was an if it cause "jitters" (for #1).

For 2, I know the SAS and reaction wheels are different. My career game is 2 versions back (vs my testing) and I would have an Orion with no pilot aboard saying there was no SAS, which was what was confusing me. The current version seems fine.

[tater]

Turns out it was not the old version... I get the "no SAS or pilots" warning in career, but not sandbox, even in the current version. 

I'm trying to figure out why it would work in sandbox and not career.

probe cores have code like this:

	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleSAS
		SASServiceLevel = 2
	}

and the avionics nosecone adds:

standalone = True

The crew is required generally for SAS to work for anything with a minimumCrew = 1. OTOH, vesselType = Probe, maybe that matters in career? 

Edited March 21, 2016 by tater

[StickyScissors]

Am i correct in assuming that the planned future base/station modules will include inflatable things?

[Shadowmage]

Added GG geometry and plumbing, cleaned up fuel/lox plumbing, cleaned up main bells and LOX input fixtures.  Need to do a bit more work on the vernier actuators and geometry, and then this one will be ready for cleanup and texturing.  Hoping to have it in-game for this weekend's release; though I may wait until the 1.1 update so I can do the gimbals with the new engine features and locked-axis gimbal setup.

[Jimbodiah]

Any news on the 1.1 release?

 

[Shadowmage]

25 minutes ago, Jimbodiah said:

Any news on the 1.1 release?

 

Nothing that I've heard.  I expect it'll go into the steam public pre-release in the next three weeks though (yah... brilliant deduction skills...I know...). 

I'm honestly a bit torn with what I _hope_ happens... I've got a busy week at work this week, so don't have time to do too much... so with my luck they would start the pre-release this week.  Would love to be able to start the updating now... but also not quite ready for it... have at least another week of cleanup work and texture-finishing before I'll really be ready to start the 1.1 updates.

[Shadowmage]

Looks like someone (RoverDude) has done much of the heavy-lifting (read: figuring out code) for a welded docking port setup.

 

 

So... will likely play around with this concept in the next few weeks (after 1.1 update.. or sooner if I get bored).  My implementation would be a bit different than what RoverDude has setup -- my implementation would completely remove the docking ports from the vessel, permanently joining whichever parts they were attached to.  Have a bit of an... idea.. on how to pull that off.. just have to hope it works out in practice

[tater]

Here's an idea that occurred to me for landed bases within your "variant" concept.

Inflatables are certainly a current "state of the art" idea, but they lack proper shielding...

The variants of a landed inflatable could be "Mun variant," "Minmus variant," Duna Variant," etc. The Mun variant would deploy, and end up looking as if it was covered with munar regolith. The Minmus version would be covered with green, minmar regolith, dunian regolith for the Duna variant, etc.

 

[Shadowmage]

Doing a bit of experimentation with the construction port concept.  I have something... working.. though there are some issues I need to sort out, and -lots- of testing to be done to make sure I'm not breaking anything weird like fuel flow or vessel persistence stuff.

I've got a part that functions as a docking port.  It has a collider that extends past the docking transform, so that the two ports will not fully engage unless both of them are in the 'armed' position.  The magnetics will kick in and pull the vessels together even while the colliders are extended.  This sets them into a 'soft dock' state where the parts can be rotated and aligned as desired.  Once both colliders are retracted, the docking ports will 'hard dock', and the two vessels will be joined.  Once docked, either construction port may be clicked on to press the 'Weld' button (currently this requires clipping the camera inside the tanks to click on it...working on a fix for that...).  Once the weld button has been pressed, the two construction ports decouple themselves, their base/root parts are joined together, and the construction ports are destroyed (currently they harmlessly explode...not yet sure how to remove parts non-explosively).

 

Test Craft:

 

Ready to start docking:

 

Soft-Docked -- can rotate parts for perfect alignment before hard-dock and weld.  By hitting the 'Retract-Arm' button, it retracts the collider and arms the docking port.  Once both are armed, the stock docking port mechanics will lock in and dock the two vessels together.

 

Hard-Docked -- standard docking port 'docked' functionality.  Vessel Part Count = 15.  Notice the tanks sit flush against eachother, as if there were no ports inbetween.

 

Welded -- docking port parts removed entirely.  Vessel Part Count = 13.  Tanks still flush against eachother, and permanently attached.

 

Still have a bit of work to do to figure out the construction port geometry and how to best allow it to function in a generic manner for multiple diameters while still making sure that it sits flush/there is no gap after it is docked and welded.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Shadowmage

[Shadowmage]

Working towards finishing up the shuttle base texture this week; tonight was detailing the cargo bay. (after I got done playing with the docking port stuff)

 

 

Still to-do is the docking adapter, perhaps a few touch-ups in a few other places, and both sets of landing gear.

[ComatoseJedi]

I was wondering when you was going to give that "radiator" look to the cargo doors and the grating on the floor. Very nice! *Notices the elevons*.. still one piece on those?

[JoseEduardo]

will that rework include a few extras?

[RedParadize]

12 hours ago, Shadowmage said:

Doing a bit of experimentation with the construction port concept.  I have something... working.. though there are some issues I need to sort out, and -lots- of testing to be done to make sure I'm not breaking anything weird like fuel flow or vessel persistence stuff.

I've got a part that functions as a docking port.  It has a collider that extends past the docking transform, so that the two ports will not fully engage unless both of them are in the 'armed' position.  The magnetics will kick in and pull the vessels together even while the colliders are extended.  This sets them into a 'soft dock' state where the parts can be rotated and aligned as desired.  Once both colliders are retracted, the docking ports will 'hard dock', and the two vessels will be joined.  Once docked, either construction port may be clicked on to press the 'Weld' button (currently this requires clipping the camera inside the tanks to click on it...working on a fix for that...).  Once the weld button has been pressed, the two construction ports decouple themselves, their base/root parts are joined together, and the construction ports are destroyed (currently they harmlessly explode...not yet sure how to remove parts non-explosively).

Still have a bit of work to do to figure out the construction port geometry and how to best allow it to function in a generic manner for multiple diameters while still making sure that it sits flush/there is no gap after it is docked and welded.

 

That is... Amazing!

If you manage to make this work without bugs (KSP being what it is) that will be just as revolutionary as your tanks and engines. Does it have the same limitation as Welding tool mod ? I didn't play with it in a long time but if I recall correctly there was some part that could/should not be welded.

[Shadowmage]

7 hours ago, ComatoseJedi said:

I was wondering when you was going to give that "radiator" look to the cargo doors and the grating on the floor. Very nice! *Notices the elevons*.. still one piece on those?

Elevons -- will always be one piece, I will not be splitting them, as that just adds uneccesary part count (and stock cannot handle two control surfaces in the same part... silly drag cubes).  So I just took a bit of insight from Jose and made them look split

 

1 hour ago, JoseEduardo said:

will that rework include a few extras?

Which rework?  Of the shuttle stuff?  Not yet, and likely not for awhile; shuttle specific payloads will have to wait until sometime after the 1.1 update.  Currently in 'clean up and finish up mode' and trying to avoid starting any other new parts (aside from the few engines I'm trying to squeeze in).

 

21 minutes ago, RedParadize said:

 

That is... Amazing!

If you manage to make this work without bugs (KSP being what it is) that will be just as revolutionary as your tanks and engines. Does it have the same limitation as Welding tool mod ? I didn't play with it in a long time but if I recall correctly there was some part that could/should not be welded.

No limitations on parts or vessel setup, aside from it requires two of the 'construction port' parts to function (technically the 'construction port' module could be added to any docking ports, however the 'soft-dock' functionality is... very nice to have).  It is essentially just two docking ports that remove themselves from the vessel when the 'weld' button is pressed, joining the remaining parts together.

I did not spot any problems with it during my brief testing last night... but it was very brief testing.  Basically it didn't crash, and I called that a good enough win for the first round   I'll look into cleaning up any of the other issues when I'm actually working on implementing the parts (during the Station Core development period).

 

 

 

[JoseEduardo]

I was talking about the textures

did the psd open properly for you on GIMP? I'm trying it here and it got the hatch wrong (I had fill set to 0 and had a line drawn around it, but apparently GIMP didn't get that)

EDIT: yeah, from what I am seeing GIMP doesn't support changing the filling of a layer nor layer effects... if you're interested I can merge that group and send it separately to you

Edited March 22, 2016 by JoseEduardo

[tater]

Did you see that my lack of SAS functionality was in career, not sandbox? I was trying to figure out why---SAS parts on a capsule require a pilot, perhaps, whereas sticking a probe as a different part (even if not root) negates this... No idea.

[Noname115]

Is there an issue with the MFT fuel tanks regarding texture change? I can't seem to change the texture of the fuel tank at all. I am unaware if this is because those tanks currently don't have any other textures, or if it is an issue that has recently opened up. All in all, I love the mod; but for things such as building an SLS, I would love if I could change the texture to a more shuttle type external tank texture. Keep up the great work  

LOG: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwZHDX3K4KIudlpwUWM0V1ZhdWM

[tater]

The SRB has an exhaust issue with this nozzle. Need to test the others.

[tater]

The other nozzles seem to exhibit this behavior as well, but as they are wider, it is less noticeable.