[WIP][1.8.x] SSTULabs - Low Part Count Solutions (Orbiters, Landers, Lifters) - Dev Thread [11-18-18]

[Gkirmathal]

@Shadowmage, question I'd really like to start using LanderCore parts of SSTU, but I am uncertain which other parts of SSTU (shared Assets/Data & Props) LC relies on. Which parts of SSTU can safely be removed, so one is only left with all the LC stuff?

If it is not too much to ask of cource

[Jimbodiah]

Just the landercore folder and the modular decoupler. All the rest are engines and tanks for the lifters.

[_Augustus_]

Will you ever do the HG-3 or M1?

[Shadowmage]

13 hours ago, RedParadize said:

Thats great stuff! 

I didn't play this game in a while. I am mostly waiting 1.1 for obvious reason. But I think I will luch kerbal again just to see your new stuff.

You should release this!

Thanks

Initial 'release' will come sometime after 1.1 and the mod has been updated.  Growing closer (I think...though..who knows).

 

12 hours ago, StickyScissors said:

Question: has the gradual trailing off of thrust in SRB's been considered as an idea for this mod? IIRC the component space shuttle SRB's did this somehow, but i'm not certain it would work properly.

Not something that I am personally interested in -- I don't think it is something that I personally need to implement either; if other mods have already implemented it, you are welcome to use and adapt their implementation.

 

8 hours ago, ComatoseJedi said:

I've never argued with code before. Seems like no matter how much you threaten to change it, it never does. You can't even reason with code. It's like they are written down or something. But, in any case, I am glad you've yielded positive results. I tried my luck at texturing the other day. I gave a full day of wanting to design an interplanetary command module. Needless to say, I'm getting better at modelling, but my texturing looks like a 2nd grader did it with a melted crayon with paste mixed in with it. 

LoL, indeed.  The code always wins.  I was mostly arguing with it over some methods regarding config nodes.  -I- felt that those methods should work regardless of where in the loading sequence they were called.  -They- felt like they only wanted to work after the parts-list was fully populated (PartLoader.Instance.GetDatabaseConfig(Part p);  do -not- call it during prefab construction, or it'll...crash horribly).  Thankfully I found out that I did not actually need them during the prefab construction, and could rely on the initial loading sequence without it crashing stuff.

Was also arguing with it over why all of the PART config nodes have their 'name' value deleted after the part is loaded (so that you cannot tell what part the config belongs to).  Its like KSP is going out of its way to make it hard to access the parts original config data.  Really don't understand it.

 

3 hours ago, Gkirmathal said:

@Shadowmage, question I'd really like to start using LanderCore parts of SSTU, but I am uncertain which other parts of SSTU (shared Assets/Data & Props) LC relies on. Which parts of SSTU can safely be removed, so one is only left with all the LC stuff?

If it is not too much to ask of cource

Off the top of my head?  No clue really.

Logically, you'll need all the lander core models and assets (even the shared assets... such as they use the texture for the -old- rcs ports), their part files, and of course the plugin to make it all function.

When I go to finally publicly release the mod I'll be splitting it up into various minimal / single-purpose packages -- LanderCore, ShipCore, Engines, Tanks.  Still probably a month or two out on this though (need 1.1, -and- need time to update stuff after that).

 

1 hour ago, _Augustus_ said:

Will you ever do the HG-3 or M1?

Probably not either of them -- they were never fully developed engines, minimal information is available on them, and I already have a good selection of upper-stage engines (and with clusters, you don't really -need- such massive engines).  They would also never fit into the tech-tree appropriately (being low/mid-tech engines, but being so large, KSP would shoehorn them into the end of the tech-tree, making them useless for progression).

 

 

And... RD-108 initial geometry:

 

Edit:

And, in regards to the new engine cluster plugin/module -- current intent is to continue developing it, and perhaps release one or two engines using it for extended testing, but not do the official swap over until the 1.1 release/updating pass.  This is mostly so that I'm not breaking -all- existing craft using the current engine clusters.

 

Hoping to have an updated test release tonight with the last few days' worth of updates in it -- RD-107 + 108, SC-E prototype parts, and at least one test part for the new engine cluster module.

Aiming to get the engine(s) finished up sometime this week/end (or at least unwrapped and first couple passes of texturing), and then will be focusing on the SC-E parts until they are done or 1.1 is released (lots of geometry work yet to do... will likely take a few weeks to get them done).

Edited February 17, 2016 by Shadowmage

[regex]

Looking great, Shadowmage!

[Shadowmage]

2 hours ago, regex said:

Looking great, Shadowmage!

Thanks

Hopefully I'll have some prototype parts available for testing tonight -- geometry will be finished (or very nearly), though they will not have any textures for this pass.  Should be fully functional, though the effects stuff might not be finished for it yet.

 

Got the RD-107 down to 13.5k tris; RD-108 will likely come in around 15k or so.  Couldn't go any lower without making it look low poly... and I prefer my stuff to be a bit nicer looking than that.  Still a bit more than I would prefer, but not much can be done about it with four main bells + verniers -- it is a complex engine.

 

Also going to try and get the initial first-pass geometry done for the RD-107 and RD-108 engine mounts for the MFT-D tanks.  No guarantees on those though for tonight... they'll be coming eventually.

[Delta_8930]

Do you have plans to make the ESA ATV and the Ariane 5?

[Shadowmage]

Updated testing release is available:

https://github.com/shadowmage45/SSTULabs/releases/tag/0.3.29-pre1

Adds RD-107/8 engines + mounts (all WIP / prototypes / placeholders; none have textures), SC-E parts (shuttle stuff; again, all WIP), and a ton of research-node/tech-tree (re)positioning for nearly all parts, including updating of the tech-limits for most.  See the link for the full change log and download links.

 

Known issues with the shuttle parts: -lots-   It overheats on the way up, it overheats on the way down (use ignore-max-temp cheat to test re-entry).  No RCS yet, no landing gear.  No colliders for the bay doors.  Fuel quantity/dV is not balanced.  Engine alignment is not finished yet; especially the OMS, they are still a bit off, though usable.  MJ wants to do ascent...on the other side of the planet (need an offset control transform).  It does glide fairly well, though I have not tested it with any kind of a payload with an offset COM.  It is a bit unstable in the roll axis, or rather has too much control authority.  It is flyable though.

Known issues with RD-107/108 engine setup -- the traditional soyuz rocket setup appears to be very unstable with these new models, and/or MJ is terrible at flying with them for some reason (probably the strange gimbal setup).  Stock effects are a WIP, but the real-plume effects are setup fairly well.  Mount geometry is all WIP and will be undergoing a lot of changes, but the overall dimensions should be fairly stable.

Known issues with new engine cluster plugin test engine (RS-25 with the S-IVB as default mount) -- Nothing that I'm aware of, but it hasn't received very much testing

Edited February 18, 2016 by Shadowmage

[Jimbodiah]

38 minutes ago, Shadowmage said:

It overheats on the way up, it overheats on the way down

At least it's consistent

[ComatoseJedi]

Well, the bright side of adding a shuttle (if you choose to keep it) is the fact that you don't have to make an IVA for it. Stock works fine for four kerbals or you can use the 6 kerbal ASET one. 

[Jimbodiah]

Gheghe, you mean somebody actually looks at the IVAs? I've never seen the point of them, other than slow down the game with unnecessary cpu load.

[ComatoseJedi]

2 hours ago, Jimbodiah said:

Gheghe, you mean somebody actually looks at the IVAs? I've never seen the point of them, other than slow down the game with unnecessary cpu load.

Each to their own.

[Theysen]

I'd really love to test the new update but I can't get past loading, stock install with only SSTU inside. It crashes at the SRB-A. Log is here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/rtg05gwlp5y552k/output_log.txt?dl=0

Or am I missing something? 

 

Otherwise just keep up this awesome work, I'm stunned with your output and quality! 

[blowfish]

8 minutes ago, Theysen said:

I'd really love to test the new update but I can't get past loading, stock install with only SSTU inside. It crashes at the SRB-A. Log is here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/rtg05gwlp5y552k/output_log.txt?dl=0

Or am I missing something? 

 

Otherwise just keep up this awesome work, I'm stunned with your output and quality! 

Thanks for providing logs.  It looks like you don't have ModuleManager installed.  SSTU requires it.

[Shadowmage]

2 minutes ago, Theysen said:

I'd really love to test the new update but I can't get past loading, stock install with only SSTU inside. It crashes at the SRB-A. Log is here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/rtg05gwlp5y552k/output_log.txt?dl=0

Or am I missing something? 

 

Otherwise just keep up this awesome work, I'm stunned with your output and quality! 

According to the log it is missing information regarding fuel definitions.  This would point to an installation or setup error (missing data files).

Did you fully remove your old installation before installing the latest updates?  (e.g. you need to delete the entire SSTU folder before installing the update/newer releases).  And did you install the -entire- contents of the distribution (it needs all the folders from GameData/SSTU/***)?

2 minutes ago, blowfish said:

Thanks for providing logs.  It looks like you don't have ModuleManager installed.  SSTU requires it.

I didn't even notice.... and yep, that would do it (or at least that -will- cause problems).

Probably about time I start bundling MM....

[Theysen]

Yes, I always go with a full vanilla install for testing, dropped the SSTU folder into GameData, installed ModuleManager (sorry about forgetting this, I'm stupid - although it did apply 0 changes) right now but it still keeps happening. Log says the same. 

 

[VenomousRequiem]

1 minute ago, Theysen said:

Yes, I always go with a full vanilla install for testing, dropped the SSTU folder into GameData, installed ModuleManager (sorry about forgetting this, I'm stupid - although it did apply 0 changes) right now but it still keeps happening. Log says the same. 

 

I'm having the literal same issue. I wanna see the new stuff! 

[Shadowmage]

Mind posting an updated log, and perhaps some screenshots of your game-data folder layout (and one of the GameData/SSTU folder contents might help too)?.

Edit:

You might also try installing CRP to see if that 'fixes' the problem.... it shouldn't be a hard-dependency, but I might have missed something in one of my patches.

 

Edited February 18, 2016 by Shadowmage

[Theysen]

8 minutes ago, Shadowmage said:

Mind posting an updated log, and perhaps some screenshots of your game-data folder layout (and one of the GameData/SSTU folder contents might help too)?.

Edit:

You might also try installing CRP to see if that 'fixes' the problem.... it shouldn't be a hard-dependency, but I might have missed something in one of my patches.

 

Works as intended now , thanks for your quick fix. I'd suggest adding some dependancies to the OP as you already stated  Thanks man!

 

P.S. : Those RD-107/8 are amazing  

Edited February 18, 2016 by Theysen

[Shadowmage]

5 minutes ago, Theysen said:

Works as intended now , thanks for your quick fix. I'd suggest adding some dependancies to the OP as you already stated  Thanks man!

Glad that worked out for you.

It is more that I need to fix my patches, as CRP should not be required at this point in time... but it appears that it is trying to load the LqdHydrogen fuel types regardless of if CRP is installed or not, and is likely failing when it cannot find the resource.

Will likely move over to having CRP (and MM) as hard-dependencies and bundling them with the distribution in the near future; though this will likely come with the 1.1 updates and package split.

 

[davidy12]

15 hours ago, Shadowmage said:

Updated testing release is available:

https://github.com/shadowmage45/SSTULabs/releases/tag/0.3.29-pre1

Adds RD-107/8 engines + mounts (all WIP / prototypes / placeholders; none have textures), SC-E parts (shuttle stuff; again, all WIP), and a ton of research-node/tech-tree (re)positioning for nearly all parts, including updating of the tech-limits for most.  See the link for the full change log and download links.

 

So... @Shadowmage: YOU'RE MAKING A SHUTTLE!?

[Shadowmage]

58 minutes ago, davidy12 said:

So... @Shadowmage: YOU'RE MAKING A SHUTTLE!?

https://github.com/shadowmage45/SSTULabs/issues/176

Most likely, yes.  Has been planned for quite awhile (~2 months at least), but I'm just now getting to work on it in earnest.  So far it looks like it will all work out okay, though will be a few more parts than I would like (but is still far fewer parts than a stock solution).

 

And, had some time to do first pass texturing for RD-107/8 engines.  This is flat diffuse color only, no noise, no specular mask.  Has some very basic normal-map details as well.

If it wasn't noticed, I also included a third model of the engine -- the RD-107X -- same as the RD-107A but without verniers.  As I already needed a 'blank' engine bell (without any attach-point AO), it was very little extra effort to re-use that geometry for a no-vernier model.

[ComatoseJedi]

@Shadowmage, I'm not sure if this is planned for the shuttle or not, but you will need one more part -or- an extension of a part. The shuttle body has a flap at the rear to -protect- the engines and provide entry aerobraking. 

 

Though, it appears that your model can support such a piece. I'm not sure what kind of adjustments you'd need to make to the wing set as you'll probably have to slide them back to accommodate this aerodynamic feature. Your thoughts on this?

[Shadowmage]

Rear body flap is planned, but it will -not- be a movable control surface, will be visual only (at least/until stock fixes aero surfaces to work in a logical manner).

[ComatoseJedi]

1 minute ago, Shadowmage said:

Rear body flap is planned, but it will -not- be a movable control surface, will be visual only (at least/until stock fixes aero surfaces to work in a logical manner).

Awesome. that's all I needed to know. It would appear that you wouldn't need it to move anyways with the current model aerodynamics. It works pretty good with initial tests without it, but I just noticed that there was a lot of fire hitting the engines and I was wondering if Jeb was going to pop out of the hatch and start roasting marshmellows on the SSMEs.