Mun Rocked

[Wild Cobra]

I took a dry run with and attempted to land on the Mun. I have only landed a craft once before on the Mun. I need to get one of these add-ons that show distance to surface. I was in retrograde, down to around 180 m/s horizontally at 3,700 meter, I think.... and hit a mountain...

Oh well. I know the surface wasn't at sea level... no sea anyway. I didn't expect that however.

Just the same, I should get a rover and kerbalnaut, find a high ore area, and plant a flag first. For my trial run, I didn't care where I landed. I just wanted to see what other changes I needed to make to the sluggish beast.

One change I plan to make is is taking off the 60 Thuds, and replacing them with 30 Poodles. I should go for the higher efficiency. I also have twisting battery/wheel sets that need some struts added.

The fuel capacity I have is good. I plan to keep the seven tank and engines on the underside to orbit, refuel in orbit, then go to the Mun. Refuel again if need be at the Mun, but I don't think that will be necessary.

I already have a large station in orbit. that is now refueled for fueling others:

I like those 8 port connecting hubs!

I'm pretty sure I can land this on the Mun, but the custom parts violates the rules.

Edited October 5, 2015 by Wild Cobra

[purpleivan]

I have only landed a craft once before on the Mun

This is an impressive beast to attempt to put down on Mun, especially as only your 2nd landing there.

Can you tell me which "custom parts" violate the rules, so that I can see if the rules can be amended. It might be that they reasonable to include in an allowed parts list, or I might start a 2nd category of "stock-ish".

[Wild Cobra]

This is an impressive beast to attempt to put down on Mun, especially as only your 2nd landing there.

Can you tell me which "custom parts" violate the rules, so that I can see if the rules can be amended. It might be that they reasonable to include in an allowed parts list, or I might start a 2nd category of "stock-ish".

Well, I used the Ginger Corp Stock Alike Hubs. Found an error in the top and bottom nodes selects and edited the files though.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/80575-GingerCorp-Stock-alike-Station-Hubs

I believe there was mention of the error in the thread, and it was easy to fix. However, some of those parts I modified myself. If you notice in the graphic, I have modified the quad coupler to a size 3, and a few other parts. I did the right scaling of mass by 27 times, but I don't know if the aerodynamic drag need modified, or if it's automatic. Some of the parts that I did modify, I changed the attachment rules.

There are too many changes to allow the station I made to be part of any competition. I don't know modern programming, but I was programming in Assembler and Basic back in the 80's, so I can do a little damage from time to time.

[purpleivan]

Ok, I see what you mean about the alterations, probably too much for it to be a qualifying entry.

I also a tiny bit of Z80 programming in the 80's.

[Norcalplanner]

Just in case anyone wants to give it a go, I've uploaded the Herkules onto KerbalX. You can get it here.

[Wild Cobra]

Thus far, it has been very tedious, and I am probably only half done.

I started all over. If fact, since I've been playing on two computers and since my tower has

the faster processor, the i7-4790 @ 3.6 GHz and 32 GB memory, I started fresh by removing KSP

and reinstalling it, so there are zero mods on this computer. I needed to do this for stock

challenges because I had lost track of modified parts, and in one launch, I even modified some

stock components in their braking torque. Should someone wish to test my ship files, and should

I find a place to upload them to, I need to make sure they are legitimate for this, and all

future unmodded challenges.

I will use my Leopard Pro laptop for my games using mods.

This is 100% unmodded, guaranteed. Everyone has my word on it.

I started a fresh sandbox game and put a scanner in orbit, then a manned expedition on the mun

to find ore. Never doing this before, I have a failed craft in the Mun orbit, and two on the

surface. The first on the surface, I used the wrong scanner. I then found a location and left

my third ore explorer on the mun, with four flags planted for where I wish to land.

Then, I sent an orbital refueler that is in orbit on the Mun. I should have removed the Mono

propellant on it, since I'm not using any, but maybe it will be useful for something else?

After several failures to make my original heavy Mun lander, because it had almost 3,000 parts, and I

couldn't correct mistakes, I starter all over with a similar, but new design. It seems that I

can build a craft with almost unlimited parts, until I leave the VAB and reenter it. I have

not been able to remove or add parts added after around part #2,500, once I leave and come

back, reload it, etc.

My new design was almost flawless in its launch. My first attempt, I had five decouplers that

didn't let go. Once I got that corrected, it was flawless. When I made Kerbin orbit, I ended

up with maybe 1/4 the starting fuel of the payload I'm sending to the mun. I'm pretty sure it

has enough fuel to make it to the Mun and land, but since the challenge is by mass, I sent

another refueler to rendezvous with it. This was tedious, and all my attempts to dock with a

Docking port Sr. failed. I'm glad I designed the refueler and lander with a regular docking

ports as well. I ended up docking with a size 1 port, which was easy and wow... So many parts

with two attached vehicles... fuel transfer was tedious and I need, I think, two more shipments to fill the tanks.

If I end up redesigning this Mun lander, I will put a size 2 docking port on the bottom

center. One of my size 1 ports is on the top center, seems to be part of that docking port

bug. I've experience it before with other craft, but since my framerate is maybe 4 per second,

and such large mass are so sluggish, I wasn't able to dock with a Sr. port.

I have contemplated hanging it up, but I want to finish this. Not even sure if I can land this beast.

here is where I am this far:

Slideshows:

Finding a place with ore and marking it:

http://s181.photobucket.com/user/Wild_Cobra/slideshow/Kerbal/Heavy%20Mun/Finding%20a%20place%20to%20land

Heavy refueler sent to the mun:

http://s181.photobucket.com/user/Wild_Cobra/slideshow/Kerbal/Heavy%20Orbital%20Fueler%20to%20Mun

Heavy ore mining station and first refueling in Kerbin orbit:

http://s181.photobucket.com/user/Wild_Cobra/slideshow/Kerbal/Heavy%20Mun/Lander%20launch%20and%20first%20refueling

[purpleivan]

Thus far, it has been very tedious, and I am probably only half done...

...I have contemplated hanging it up, but I want to finish this. Not even sure if I can land this beast.

This is looking pretty impressive.

I think half of the challenge of this challenge is having the stubbornness to stick with it through multiple launches of huge complex vehicles.

Glad to see that you've got you're lander and fuel up... just need to get them together... and then the fun of landing

[Wild Cobra]

This is looking pretty impressive.

I think half of the challenge of this challenge is having the stubbornness to stick with it through multiple launches of huge complex vehicles.

Glad to see that you've got you're lander and fuel up... just need to get them together... and then the fun of landing

Thank-You.

Now that I actually have troops on a Mun landing site, I know the elevation, and won't crash like I did before. It should have enough thrust for a good controlled landing, if the sluggish nature doesn't keep me from controlling it.

I started an imgur account. Getting tired of photobucket. I realized when making this post, I didn't have the starting pics of the lander. Her it is with the boosters, and just the lander portion, in the VAB:

http://imgur.com/a/o8e1O

The lander portion alone is 2,759.7 tons and 1,395 parts. Of course, it will me minus some of that fuel with when landed. With the boosters, at launch, it is 1971 parts and 8,766.8 tons.

[Wild Cobra]

It shouldn't even be too sluggish now. I approximately doubled my framerate by disabling hyperthreading in my BIOS.

I have 4 physical cores in the CPU. Hyperthreading makes it eight logical cores. Since Unity only uses one core, I was only utilizing 12.5% of my CPU for it. Now it has 25% of the CPU usage.

[purpleivan]

It shouldn't even be too sluggish now. I approximately doubled my framerate by disabling hyperthreading in my BIOS.

I have 4 physical cores in the CPU. Hyperthreading makes it eight logical cores. Since Unity only uses one core, I was only utilizing 12.5% of my CPU for it. Now it has 25% of the CPU usage.

Interesting... I'll have to look into that when I'm dealing with high part number vehicles.

[KerikBalm]

Would launching from Kerbin, Landing on the Mun, doing ISRU on the Mun, and then doing a 2nd landing count?

Could I launch from Kerbin, then launch refueller ships to refuel it around Mun before landing it? or does all the docking and such have to be done in LKO

Multiple launches to assemble a huge lander in Kerbin orbit are not just allowed but actively encouraged

It says its allowed in Kerbin orbit, but it doesn't exclude assemly elsewhere.

neither will the addition of mass of vehicles docked after landing

So that excludes assembly on the surface of Mun... but in the orbit of Mun?

The mass of the vehicle is that of the lander on the surface of Mun at the time of landing.

...

neither will the addition of mass of vehicles docked after landing or ore mining.

What if the ore mining takes place before landing/ before a 2nd landing?

What if I have a 2nd refueller vehicle that mines ore, and refills the lander in Munar orbit before the lander touches down at all.

It seems functionally the same as just launching additional tankers from kerbin.

The reason I want to refuel after arriving at the Mun, is that my part count can be lower when departing Kerbin.

I'd much rather launch 3x 500 part ships, than 1x 1,500 part ship.

And docking all 3 together still gets me a 1,500 part ship.

If my lander will be 500 parts, then I'd like to avoid getting a part count any higher than that.

Fly the 500 parts to Mun, refuel the 500 part ship, and set it down.

[Wild Cobra]

I'd much rather launch 3x 500 part ships, than 1x 1,500 part ship.

And docking all 3 together still gets me a 1,500 part ship.

If my lander will be 500 parts, then I'd like to avoid getting a part count any higher than that.

Fly the 500 parts to Mun, refuel the 500 part ship, and set it down.

My only problem with trying that is the fact that you have structural problems using docking clamps, and can't put struts between parts in space.

I would love to see it if you think you can pull it off!

Besides, 1,500 parts is 1,500 parts regardless of it's one or three builds.

If a large part count craft can survive liftoff, and the 2+ G forces involved, it can likely survive a Mun landing.

[purpleivan]

Would launching from Kerbin, Landing on the Mun, doing ISRU on the Mun, and then doing a 2nd landing count?

Absolutely... a creative solution.

As long as all vehicle are launched originally from Kerbin (i.e. not making use of something already in orbit) then filling them with fuel on Mun, then orbiting them for a rendezvous with a lander in Mun orbit just makes this a more epic endeavour.

Edited October 19, 2015 by purpleivan

[purpleivan]

Just in case anyone wants to give it a go, I've uploaded the Herkules onto KerbalX. You can get it here.

I tried to get the Herkules into Kerbin orbit, but there was an issue with the 1st staging, in that only some of the 1st stage detached.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

[Wild Cobra]

I tried to get the Herkules into Kerbin orbit, but there was an issue with the 1st staging, in that only some of the 1st stage detached.

http://imgur.com/a/KHxRa

Try reducing your throttle to about 70% before separation, then wait for the sages to stop wobble before detaching, then go full throttle.

[purpleivan]

Try reducing your throttle to about 70% before separation, then wait for the sages to stop wobble before detaching, then go full throttle.

It wasn't that the stage separated and then collided with the engines of the next stage, but that the decouplers didn't fire when staged, something that I've not had happen before.

I know what you mean about the "get it stable, then separate" method. I've even let a problematic vehicle drift for a couple of seconds to stabilise, then stage, then ease in the thrust a couple seconds after that, to avoid large tanks smashing into the next stage's engine.

[Wild Cobra]

It wasn't that the stage separated and then collided with the engines of the next stage, but that the decouplers didn't fire when staged, something that I've not had happen before.

LOL...

Sorry, my reading comprehension skills seem to be lacking at the moment.

I had five Rockomax decouples not function on one design where I was decoupling 14 rockets at once. I removed and reconnected each of the 49 decouplers fron the engines above and let them snap back in. That fixed the problem.

Now didn't I also read something about a known bug in the size 3 decouopler?

I haven't look good at Hercules, so I don't know if it uses any of that.

If I recall, the fix was to remove the physical significance line:

PART

{

name = size3Decoupler

module = Part

mesh = size3Decoupler.mu

scale = 1

rescaleFactor = 1

node_stack_top = 0.0, 0.4341492, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 3

node_stack_bottom = 0.0, -0.4365587, 0.0, 0.0, -1.0, 0.0, 3

fx_gasBurst_white = 0.0, 0.0650517, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, decouple

sound_vent_large = decouple

TechRequired = largeVolumeContainment

entryCost = 1200

cost = 600

category = Structural

subcategory = 0

title = TR-38-D

manufacturer = O.M.B. Demolition Enterprises

description = Originally designed to separate buildings that were stuck together, O.M.B has repurposed these explosive bolts for use in separating stacks of massive rockets.

attachRules = 1,0,1,1,0

mass = 0.8

dragModelType = default

maximum_drag = 0.2

minimum_drag = 0.2

angularDrag = 2

breakingForce = 200

breakingTorque = 200

crashTolerance = 9

maxTemp = 2000 // = 3400

fuelCrossFeed = False

PhysicsSignificance = 1

stageOffset = 1

childStageOffset = 1

bulkheadProfiles = size3

MODULE

{

name = ModuleDecouple

ejectionForce = 100

explosiveNodeID = top

}

DRAG_CUBE

{

cube = Default, 3.272327,0.7808633,1.97612, 3.272327,0.7810537,1.97612, 11.00077,0.8435503,0.4720254, 11.00077,0.8433413,0.4720254, 3.272327,0.7660723,1.97612, 3.272327,0.7661255,1.97612, -2.384186E-07,0,0, 3.7678,0.8747007,3.7678

}

}

- - - Updated - - -

I started fresh by removing KSP

and reinstalling it, so there are zero mods on this computer. I needed to do this for stock

challenges because I had lost track of modified parts, and in one launch, I even modified some

stock components in their braking torque. Should someone wish to test my ship files, and should

I find a place to upload them to, I need to make sure they are legitimate for this, and all

future unmodded challenges.

I will use my Leopard Pro laptop for my games using mods.

This is 100% unmodded, guaranteed. Everyone has my word on it.

Ooops...

I forgot, I did load three custom flags into the flag file...

But, I don't think anyone will mind a non-stock flag.

Edited October 20, 2015 by Wild Cobra

[purpleivan]

I didn't actually take a look at it before launch, I just chucked in onto the pad and lit it up.

It wasn't a serious attempt at the challenge, I was just curious to see the vehicle in flight. If was to try it again, I'd check it over beforehand.

[Wild Cobra]

FYI, I haven't given up yet on this challenge.

Since post 31, I sent up two more tankers before the lander was topped off. I then sent it on it's way to the Mun today, orbited, and rendezvoused with the tanker in Mun Orbit i sent near the start.

I just finished depleting my tanker orbiting the Mun of all but 1125/1375 fuel/oxidizer into the lander. I now have 136727/172800 fuel and 167111/211200 oxidizer in the lander. I'll need to send one more tanker to the Mun to top it off before landing.

Saved and ended the game, and will resume later with a fresh boot of the system.

I messed up on my solar panels. I didn't snap them in all straight, and missed some on the action group.

Oh well. Gives it some character, Kerbal style...

I was able to refill my largest tanks, the six Kerbodyne S3-14400 Tanks that each have six Rockomax Jumbo-64 Fuel Tanks around them. Enough still to partially fill one empty Jumbo-64.

Please note, that on my center section of the tankers, their fuel is separated from the four tanks with rockets on each end. They stay full except for what the RCS thrusters use, so I had three near full and four partially full 14400 tanks at refilling time.

For my tanker front and rear engines, they toggle forward/reverse with an action group. The four inactive ones show empty above the top of the 24 lander rockets.

Edited October 21, 2015 by Wild Cobra

[jaddbo]

i might give this a go

-jaddbo

[Just Jim]

OK, I'm in... I'm entering my Mun Station Teraskova and the tarantula Skycrane I used to get it there:

Liftoff she has 480 parts, 10 stages, and weighs in at 697.8t

Landed on the Mun she has 148 parts, and weighs in at 38t

Oh, No mods, its completely stock. Not sure what other info you need.

[Wild Cobra]

Wow...

I just docked my 5th tanker with the lander in munar orbit.

Three filling up the massive tanks in Kerbin orbit, and this is the second in Munar orbit.

After I fill the tanks up, I should be ready to land.

[purpleivan]

OK, I'm in... I'm entering my Mun Station Teraskova and the tarantula Skycrane I used to get it there:

http://i.imgur.com/EMwjfPa.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/467Y7og.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/qOadYVM.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/kfqAQ61.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/SaOkiNP.jpg

Liftoff she has 480 parts, 10 stages, and weighs in at 697.8t

Landed on the Mun she has 148 parts, and weighs in at 38t

Oh, No mods, its completely stock. Not sure what other info you need.

An interesting looking lander and an unusual way to put it down on the surface.

I'd have liked to have seen a few more pics than this, in particular ones showing the resources panel open, but as isn't one of the heaviest landers, I won't quibble.

I'll put you on the leaderboard shortly.

BTW... I assume that the rover with the light gantry on top of it was something that you sent up previously. Did you put it there specifically for this flight, or did you choose the landing site because it was already there? Not important, just curious.

Thanks for joining the party

- - - Updated - - -

Wow...

I just docked my 5th tanker with the lander in munar orbit.

Three filling up the massive tanks in Kerbin orbit, and this is the second in Munar orbit.

After I fill the tanks up, I should be ready to land.

http://i.imgur.com/bM5VADg.png

Looking forward to seeing this beastie landed.

[Just Jim]

An interesting looking lander and an unusual way to put it down on the surface.

I'd have liked to have seen a few more pics than this, in particular ones showing the resources panel open, but as isn't one of the heaviest landers, I won't quibble.

I'll put you on the leaderboard shortly.

BTW... I assume that the rover with the light gantry on top of it was something that you sent up previously. Did you put it there specifically for this flight, or did you choose the landing site because it was already there? Not important, just curious.

Thanks for joining the party

Sorry, I launched this a couple months ago. Had I known about the challenge back then I would have gladly taken more pics.

The lighthouse rover was landed earlier, yes. I used it to find a nice, flat landing spot and targeted it when I landed the base.

Almost landed right on top of it.. Scott Manley would be proud. lol

[purpleivan]

I've updated the leaderboard now to show your entry.

On the subject of almost crushing a rover used as a marker for a landing, how about this for close.

I used Mechjeb to get somewhere remotely near a 6000m plateau that I'd found, but it was making a mess of the part of the descent on chutes, so I took over manually for that part.

My first landing ended in disaster, but on my 2nd attempt I made it, but almost destroyed the rover.