The Low Part Count Lifter Challenge [temporarily suspended 9/25/15]

[Norcalplanner]

Due to RL time pressures which are drastically curtailing my KSP time, I'm temporarily suspending the Low Part Count Lifter Challenge. My sincere thanks go out to all participants. If anyone who has completed the challenge would like to keep it going, please PM me. Norcalplanner, 9/25/15

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Welcome to the Low Part Count Lifter Challenge!

There have been plenty of challenges for lifters based on cost, mass, time to orbit, or payload mass fraction. While fun, these challenges don't address an issue which confronts many KSP players – LAG. Many missions have ground to a halt due to lag-induced frustration/rage/despair. Since lag is generally tied to part count, I thought it was time for a challenge which emphasized low part counts. The challenge is designed to mimic a common in-game scenario – lofting a station, mothership, or other heavy load into an orbit suitable for further assembly or an interplanetary transfer.

The Challenge: Build and launch a lifter which can send a large payload into a 120 km orbit, using as few parts in your lifter as possible.

Scoring: Divide the weight of your payload (in tons) by the number of parts in your lifter. For example, a rocket with 20 parts, 5 in the payload and 15 in the lifter, and a payload of 90 tons, will have a score of 6 tons/part (90 divided by 15). Higher is better.

The Rules:

• The payload must be at least 82 tons (e.g., a S-14400 Kerbodyne tank or bigger) and cannot have any method of propulsion. Reaction wheels and power sources in the payload are fine.
  
• Pe of the orbit must be at least 120 km.
  
• The decoupler or docking port which connects the lifter to the payload must stay with the lifter (it counts toward your lifter part total).
  
• Any struts between the lifter and the payload are part of the lifter (they count toward your lifter part total).
  
• All engines from mods must have an Isp of 400 or less. Any stock engine may be used.
  
• Tweakscale, Procedural Parts, and any other mod that alters the size of parts or allows you to create custom sized parts may not be used in the lifter, but can be used in the payload. Most other mods are allowed (although some of their engines might not be eligible).
  
• No editing of config files, infinite fuel, hacking gravity, or any other such tomfoolery.
  
• MechJeb or other autopilot ascent is fine. This is primarily a design challenge.
  

Entry Requirements:

• Provide photos or a video of your lifter launching the payload into orbit.
  
• Clearly show the total number of parts on the pad via either KER, MJ, or the info tab in map view.
  
• Clearly show the final mass and part count of the payload in orbit, after it's detached from the lifter, by the same method used for the total rocket part count on the pad.
  
• Include a brief description of your design, either in your post or in the captions for the photos. Be sure to note any particular techniques or combination of parts from different mods which are used in your design.
  
• Note any key mods used, including parts mods and those that help out your lifter (such as KJR and FAR). Chatterer and Science Alert are cool, but we don't need to know about them for this particular challenge.
  
• Calculate your own score as part of your entry. Divide the mass of the payload by the number of lifter parts (don't count the parts in the payload). Round off to no more than two decimal places.
  

Leaderboard:

• A single leaderboard will be kept initially, with notes regarding key mods and payload mass for each entry.
  
• If there turns out to be a big discrepancy because of one particular mod, we'll split the leaderboard.
  

The Asterisk of Awesomeness (AoA):

• The AoA is a purely discretionary award given to those entries which display some level of awesomeness. Entries deemed worthy of an AoA will be noted with an asterisk on the leaderboard, and the aspect of the entry that is awesome will be bolded in the leaderboard notes for that entry.
  
• Examples of things that are worthy of an AoA include, but are not limited to:
  
  • All stock!
    
  • All SRBs!
    
  • SSTO!
    
  • First-time entry for any challenge!
    
  • Lofting a station or other unwieldy payload!
    
  • Using RSS!
    
  • Anything else deemed awesome!
    

Advice:

• Please launch your craft during the daytime.
  
• Kerbal Joint Reinforcement is recommended. Other than that, you're on your own in terms of design.
  

Here's an example showing how this all works:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Have fun! I look forward to your entries!

The Leaderboard

69.59 tons/part with GTLR10* by killakrust (208.78 ton payload, 3 part lifter, using 10m Behemoth Engineering parts, SSTO!)

42.18 tons/part with Size Isn't Everything* by Jouni (210.88 ton payload, 5 part lifter, using the biggest SpaceY parts, SSTO!)

18.77 tons/part with Babyzilla* by linuxgurugamer (206.49 ton payload, 11 part lifter, 174 km Pe, SpaceY and FAR, SSTO and first-time entry in a challenge!)

16.85 tons/part with Lil' Lifter by Norcalplanner (202.22 ton payload, 12 part lifter, stock engines, Fuel Tanks Plus and KJR)

14.48 tons/part with Low Partcount Lifter* by Jouni (188.18 ton payload, 13 part lifter, SSTO and stock entry!)

14.12 tons/part with Gorgon2* by killakrust (183.63 ton payload, 13 part lifter, stock entry!)

11.08 tons/part with Liquid Plutonium Cooled Lifter by endrush (133 ton payload, 12 part lifter, stock plus KJR)

6.39 tons/part with LPCL Example by Norcalplanner

Edited September 26, 2015 by Norcalplanner
Temporarily suspending the challenge

[Columbia]

Interesting challenge!

If launch clamps are ever to be part, will they be considered as "part" of the craft's part count?

[Norcalplanner]

You know, I haven't used launch clamps for almost a year. I always use KJR and Claw's stock bug fixes, and use editor extensions in the VAB to keep everything absolutely level. Since launch clamps have physics calculations associated with them, and since the challenge is all about minimizing lag and keeping the part count down, I'm going to rule that they count as part of the lifter part count total. If it turns into an issue, we can split the leaderboard to have "with" and "without" categories for launch clamps. For now, just call out how many launch clamps are part of the craft design and I'll put that information in the notes.

[endrush]

https://imgur.com/a/eVD8M

Mass: 133.055 tons

Lifter Parts: 12

Score: 11.08

I see many Mammoth engines in your future.

I forgot to give it a name....i'll go with Liquid Plutonium Cooled Lifter

[Norcalplanner]

https://imgur.com/a/eVD8M

Mass: 133.055 tons

Lifter Parts: 12

Score: 11.08

I see many Mammoth engines in your future.

I forgot to give it a name....i'll go with Liquid Plutonium Cooled Lifter

Endrush,

Thanks for the entry. I'll take a look at it as soon as I get home later today. One question - do you have a screenshot of your entry on the pad? I need to confirm that there aren't any other parts or launch clamps which would increase the part count.

[killakrust]

Here's one I put together. It's called the Gorgon2.

Figured the best way to get a decent score was to have a big payload, so here we go...

Javascript is disabled. View full album

If my math is good then the score should be: 183.63 / 13 = 14.12

Edit: FYI no fuel or other resources were transferred from the payload at all, and it also only has RCS, so it could just sit around until a craft needs to dock with it. Let me know if you need a screenshot to prove it.

Edited August 30, 2015 by killakrust
added some stuff

[Norcalplanner]

Congratulations, killakrust and endrush! I've put you on the leaderboard in first and second place, with my lowly example (which was far from optimized and intended to be beaten) bringing up the rear.

[Jouni]

You get better results without staging and with a lower initial TWR.

Payload: 200.680 tonnes

Lifter parts: 13

Score: 15.44

The only mod used was MechJeb. There were no problems with wobble, so you could increase the score by using more parallel stacks. The score should approach ~16.7 asymptotically.

[Norcalplanner]

Jouni,

Great looking entry, but I'm afraid I can't put you on the leaderboard just yet. Rule 2 requires a Pe of 120 km or greater, since the challenge is intended to mimic a payload which is going interplanetary or requires further orbital assembly. If you'd care to tweak your craft and refly your entry, I'd be happy to add you to the leaderboard.

[Jouni]

Well, I missed that detail.

Let's empty one of the adapters in the payload.

I overcompensated a bit, and the final orbit was 150x127 km.

Payload: 188.180 tonnes

Lifter parts: 13

Score: 14.48

Because the final decoupler is a necessary evil, there are 12 functional parts in the lifter, and the marginal payload around is 15.7 tonnes/part. Because a staging event apparently requires at least two parts, staging is counterproductive, unless it can increase the payload by at least 31.4 tonnes.

[Nich]

Personally this should be a stock competition as stock can not compete with SpaceY tanks.

[Norcalplanner]

...stock can not compete with SpaceY tanks.

That sounds like an assertion that needs to be proved or disproved with an entry.

Seriously, if there's enough demand, we can certainly split the leaderboard into stock(-ish) and modded divisions.

- - - Updated - - -

Well, I missed that detail.

Let's empty one of the adapters in the payload.

http://jltsiren.kapsi.fi/ksp/1.0/less_payload_1.jpeg

http://jltsiren.kapsi.fi/ksp/1.0/less_payload_2.jpeg

http://jltsiren.kapsi.fi/ksp/1.0/less_payload_3.jpeg

I overcompensated a bit, and the final orbit was 150x127 km.

Payload: 188.180 tonnes

Lifter parts: 13

Score: 14.48

Because the final decoupler is a necessary evil, there are 12 functional parts in the lifter, and the marginal payload around is 15.7 tonnes/part. Because a staging event apparently requires at least two parts, staging is counterproductive, unless it can increase the payload by at least 31.4 tonnes.

Congratulations, Jouni! You're now on top of the leaderboard. I've also called out the orbital height in the challenge summary as well as in the rules.

[Norcalplanner]

Nich, you inspired me to do something just with tanks. Without opening up the SpaceY catalog (yet), I used some tanks from the Fuel Tanks Plus mod, including some double-length 3.75 m tanks and a couple of fueled nosecones for the side stacks. End result is a payload of 202.22 tons being sent up with 12 lifter parts, for a score of 16.85 tons/part. Uses MJ, KJR, and Fuel Tanks Plus.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

I'd also like to say that this challenge is already doing some things I hoped it would - figuring out what general shapes work well, what kinds of staging (if any) are optimal, whether nosecones are worth it in terms of part count, and other design considerations.

[Nich]

I don't have SpaceY installed but it is the same thing as having 2.5m compete with 3.75m. It will never work well. Simply take a 12 part design from the 3.75m scale it up to 20m and you are now delivering 1000 times the payload for the same number of parts. I am pretty sure SpaceY doesnt have 20m parts but I am pretty sure I have seen other mods that do.

I think you would have done better without the fueled nose cones as they probably did not provied enough uph to justfiy 2 extra parts. Say only lifting 185t with 10 parts gets you 18.5

I think your best beat for the leader board will be a single S-14400 reaction wheel batteries and nose cone lifted by a decoupler 4 S-14400 and 1 mamath. giving something like 90t lifted by 6 parts for a max of 15t/part for Stock parts. Might have to reduce the fuel in the S-14400 to get the mass down to 82t.

Either that or you will have to build on the economics of more payload for 1 decoupler but then you lose the economics of aerodynamics of being behind they payload.

Edited September 1, 2015 by Nich

[linuxgurugamer]

Since this is a design challange, would Mechjeb count as a part?

Also, I assume that the "isp of 400 or less" refers to the ISP in atmosphere?

[Norcalplanner]

Since this is a design challange, would Mechjeb count as a part?

Also, I assume that the "isp of 400 or less" refers to the ISP in atmosphere?

Just put Mechjeb in the payload, since payload parts don't count toward your lifter part total.

The Isp limitation is for both vacuum and atmosphere, but only for modded engines. Any stock engine can be used.

Edited September 4, 2015 by Norcalplanner
typo

[linuxgurugamer]

Ok, here is my entry, Babyzilla:

Craft file available on KerbalX

Total parts on the pad: 22

Total parts in orbit after separation:11

Total mass after separation: 206.49

Score: 18.77

Mods Used

• Ferram Aerospace Research
  
• KW Rocketry
  
• MechJeb 2
  
• RemoteTech
  
• SpaceY Heavy Lifters Parts Pack
  
• Squad (stock)
  
• TweakScale - Rescale Everything! (used to rescale a battery in the payload only)
  
• TweakableEverything
  

Mods used to capture screenshots

• AutomatedScreenshots
  
• Historian (for ribbon)
  

Awesomeness: First entry into any challenge, SSTO

I wasn't happy about having RemoteTech there, but I was using my main install and didn't want to make another install. So there is an antenna under the nosecone to allow for communications.

Imgur album showing flight:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Edited September 4, 2015 by linuxgurugamer

[Norcalplanner]

Ok, here is my entry:

Craft file available on KerbalX

Total parts on the pad: 22

Total parts in orbit after separation:11

Total mass after separation: 206.49

Score: 18.77

Mods Used

• Ferram Aerospace Research
  
• KW Rocketry
  
• MechJeb 2
  
• RemoteTech
  
• SpaceY Heavy Lifters Parts Pack
  
• Squad (stock)
  
• TweakScale - Rescale Everything!
  
• TweakableEverything
  

Mods used to capture screenshots

• AutomatedScreenshots
  
• Historian (for ribbon)
  

Awesomeness: First entry into any challenge, SSTO

Imgur album showing flight:

http://imgur.com/a/evwYy

linuxgurugamer,

Nice entry, and SSTO to boot! I was wondering when someone was going to break out the SpaceY R7s. That much thrust and tankage in a single part is begging to be used in this sort of challenge.

Two questions before I put you on the leaderboard -

1. Did you use Tweakscale on any of the lifter parts? Tweakscale is one of the few prohibited mods.

2. Do you have a particular name for your entry?

[linuxgurugamer]

linuxgurugamer,

Nice entry, and SSTO to boot! I was wondering when someone was going to break out the SpaceY R7s. That much thrust and tankage in a single part is begging to be used in this sort of challenge.

Two questions before I put you on the leaderboard -

1. Did you use Tweakscale on any of the lifter parts? Tweakscale is one of the few prohibited mods.

2. Do you have a particular name for your entry?

I did not use Tweakscale on the lifter, the only thing I did was to make the battery smaller (the battery is under the nosecone).

I'm going to redo it without that battery, I'l try to get it uploaded in an hour or so

If you think that this was an ok use of tweakscale, then call it: Babyzilla

Thanks

Edited September 4, 2015 by linuxgurugamer

[Norcalplanner]

Here's mine, the Kerbal Launch System.

Mods - Tweakscale, Procedural Fairings, Near Future Spacecraft and Propulsion

http://i.imgur.com/evGnp7o.png?1

Here it is in the VAB with the fairing removed. Of course, it has a mock-up of Orion with a FL-T6000 Service Tank from Near Future for the SM. Ignore the KSP Historian, it is buggy in the VAB.

http://i.imgur.com/UCdqWH2.png?1

legoclone09,

That's a good looking craft, but I'm only seeing two images, which isn't enough for me to score your entry. Can you post some more pics or a video?

Also, Tweakscale is one of the few prohibited mods, if the parts are used in the lifter. Were any Tweakscaled parts used in the lifter? Or are they just in the payload? That NFS capsule looks like it's been increased a bit in size...

- - - Updated - - -

I did not use Tweakscale on the lifter, the only thing I did was to make the battery smaller (the battery is under the nosecone).

I'm going to redo it without that battery, I'l try to get it uploaded in an hour or so

If you think that this was an ok use of tweakscale, then call it: Babyzilla

Thanks

No problem - it just prominently says that Tweakscale is one of the mods. I think I'll clarify that using Tweakscaled parts is prohibited for the lifter portion only. I don't want to rain on someone's creative payload design.

Congratulations! Babyzilla will be on top of the leaderboard shortly.

Edited September 4, 2015 by Norcalplanner

[linuxgurugamer]

legoclone09,

That's a good looking craft, but I'm only seeing two images, which isn't enough for me to score your entry. Can you post some more pics or a video?

Also, Tweakscale is one of the few prohibited mods. Were any Tweakscaled parts used in the lifter? Or are they just in the payload? That NFS capsule looks like it's been increased a bit in size...

- - - Updated - - -

No problem - it just prominently says that Tweakscale is one of the mods. I think I'll clarify that using Tweakscaled parts is prohibited for the lifter portion only. I don't want to rain on someone's creative payload design.

Congratulations! Babyzilla will be on top of the leaderboard shortly.

Yahoo!

I'll update my post to specify what was Tweakscaled.

Also, does having RemoteTech mean anything? It gave me a headache initially until I added an antenna.

Thank you

- - - Updated - - -

A suggestion for this and future challenges. It would be nice to be able to examine other people's ships. Why not require that the ship be available on KerbalX? Or at least a strong suggestion?

Thanks

Edited September 4, 2015 by linuxgurugamer

[Norcalplanner]

Also, does having RemoteTech mean anything? It gave me a headache initially until I added an antenna.

Nope. As far as I'm concerned, RT is in the same basket as Chatterer or Planetshine for this particular challenge. Of course, someone who's launching an entire constellation of RT satellites with their entry would definitely get an AoA.

[linuxgurugamer]

Nope. As far as I'm concerned, RT is in the same basket as Chatterer or Planetshine for this particular challenge. Of course, someone who's launching an entire constellation of RT satellites with their entry would definitely get an AoA.

Oh boy, an improved challenge!

Watch for my next entry in the next few days, it will most likely be a modification of this one, but with 3 communication satellites to be included for launch in space.

Can I assume that, once the initial orbit is reached and the lifter is separated, that is the conclusion, and that anything else after that would be a candidate for the AoA?

[Norcalplanner]

Oh boy, an improved challenge!

Watch for my next entry in the next few days, it will most likely be a modification of this one, but with 3 communication satellites to be included for launch in space.

Can I assume that, once the initial orbit is reached and the lifter is separated, that is the conclusion, and that anything else after that would be a candidate for the AoA?

You can include a pic or two about putting the satellites in orbit if you want, but it's not really a part of the challenge. The main thing is that a constellation of satellites is definitely awesome, and sometimes unwieldy, which puts it in AoA territory. Although to be honest, I was thinking more of 6-9 satellites - enough to do GKO and then Mun and/or Minmus in a single launch. Of course, the most I ever did was four, so maybe I'm projecting a bit.

Edited September 5, 2015 by Norcalplanner
typos

[Jouni]

Let's see what happens when we build a rocket from three of the biggest SpaceY fuel tanks and the biggest SpaceY engine cluster.

The ascent was ridiculously shallow, because big rockets with a high TWR don't care about drag.

Payload: 210.875 tonnes

Lifter parts: 5

Score: 42.175

Mods: SpaceY, MechJeb

If you use 3x bigger fuel tanks than in stock and an engine cluster powerful enough to lift the stack, the score will be about 3x higher than for similar stock rockets. With multiple stacks, the score would be even higher, as the marginal payload was over 50 tonnes/part.