The Kerbol-16 Challenge

[Souper]

This is gonna be huge.

Rules:

Orbit and land on every celestial body in the Kerbol system with one ship, then crash your ship into Kerbol.

Lowest MET wins.

Dosen't matter whether or not you are manned.

No K-Drive, no cheating, no opening the cheats menu.

No mods at all. I'm being brutal about this, not even aesthetics!

Must be 1 single launch.

Now, to wait and see how long it takes for somebody to do this...

If you win, you get to put this in your signature!:

Edited September 12, 2015 by Souper

[SpaceplaneAddict]

Lol, who knew, I once built a fighter named K-16... Lolololol

[Red Iron Crown]

Can we see your example entry?

[Souper]

I don't have one. This challege isn't to see who can actually win, but to see who will try.

[Kuansenhama]

By one vessel do you mean one launch or one ship has to visit every single planet? Or can I send up several spacecraft on a single rocket, (say make a lander for Eve, land, return and redock the capsule to the mothership) then move on?

Also what about mods? Can I use Atomic Age and NFT?

Edited September 12, 2015 by Kuansenhama

[Souper]

No mods, single launch.

[panzer1b]

Orbit and land on every celestial body in the Kerbol system with one ship, then crash your ship into Kerbol.

Must be 1 single launch.

I VERY much doubt this can even be done in stock KSP. For one, you CANNOT land on jool anymore, believe me, ive tried to do it. Even if you survive the reentry heat jool has a kill trigger before you touch the surface (like the sun). SO unless you make jool exempt its 100% IMPOSSIBLE TO DO!

Second issue, it is IMPOSSIBLE to make a craft that can lad on eve, get back into eve orbit, and then get somewhere where i t can refuel (im assuming IRSU is mandatory since you didnt say refueling missions are allowed since thats not a single launch or single ship). While SSTOs to laythe are possible (someone managed to do it with the largest engine is KSP and basically a rocket with some wings), there is no bloody way to get back in orbit if you have to drag IRSU gear with you as thats at a bare minimum ~5 tons of dry mass you need to drag into orbit! Its hard enough to get a MK1 pod to SSTO from eve, and that weighs near nothing, let alone a IRSU converter thats 4 tons.

i am actually tempted to try this, but i do not have high hopes since id essentially need to make something that can lift off from Eve after refueling, and get to gilly somehow afterwards. If me or anyone else manages to pull this off they will be the best KSP engineer ever!

[John FX]

I don't have one. This challege isn't to see who can actually win, but to see who will try.

It is customary for the challenge poster to at least try and then show their attempt successful or not.

I will be very interested to see how far you get.

[origamiscienceguy]

Given that Jool cannot be landed on, This is the only concievable way I can think of doing this. (not that I'm gonna)

Make a rocket that doesn't stage on every planet except eve. Use IRSU on planets several times, and visit eve last. Once landed on eve, get rid of all IRSU equiptment and take off, use whatever staging necessary to get into orbit, then use gravity assist trickery to get a high apoapse and use that to crash into the sun.

[tseitsei]

I VERY much doubt this can even be done in stock KSP. For one, you CANNOT land on jool anymore, believe me, ive tried to do it. Even if you survive the reentry heat jool has a kill trigger before you touch the surface (like the sun). SO unless you make jool exempt its 100% IMPOSSIBLE TO DO!

Yes, You can't land on Jool but besides that I think this is doable (but very hard). It's hard mostly because it needs to be single launch... The size of the lifter needed to do this terrifies me a lot.

Second issue, it is IMPOSSIBLE to make a craft that can lad on eve, get back into eve orbit, and then get somewhere where i t can refuel (im assuming IRSU is mandatory since you didnt say refueling missions are allowed since thats not a single launch or single ship). While SSTOs to laythe are possible (someone managed to do it with the largest engine is KSP and basically a rocket with some wings), there is no bloody way to get back in orbit if you have to drag IRSU gear with you as thats at a bare minimum ~5 tons of dry mass you need to drag into orbit! Its hard enough to get a MK1 pod to SSTO from eve, and that weighs near nothing, let alone a IRSU converter thats 4 tons.

You don't need to SSTO from Eve. You can just build a stageable Eve lander and do Eve first and then use the last stage of that lander as lander for other planets and moons (you'll probably need some dockable extra "stages" for laythe and tylo). Or do Eve last and use smaller SSTO lander for other bodies and finally at Eve orbit dock it to "lower stages of Eve lander- module you have with you and you can leave those lower stages behind as you ascent from Eve...

If you can just get to Eve orbit you don't need to get "somewhere it can refuel". It can be refueled from another part of your ship that is waiting on the orbit...

i am actually tempted to try this, but i do not have high hopes since id essentially need to make something that can lift off from Eve after refueling, and get to gilly somehow afterwards. If me or anyone else manages to pull this off they will be the best KSP engineer ever!

If you can just get to Eve orbit you don't need to get to gilly. It can be refueled from another part of your ship that is waiting on the orbit...

The hardest part here is to build a ship with enough fuel and Eve capable lander (it will be big) that can be lifted to LKO in single launch IMO

This is still amazingly hard but not necessarily impossible (IF YOU CAN BUILD THAT LIFTER)...

Edited September 13, 2015 by tseitsei

[The_Rocketeer]

The idea that the last stage of an Eve ascent would include an ISRU for refueling at later stops is rather laughable. Eve ascents are the most slimline crafts I can imagine.

[Kuansenhama]

I will be very interested to see how far you get.

Alrighty then...

[origamiscienceguy]

The idea that the last stage of an Eve ascent would include an ISRU for refueling at later stops is rather laughable. Eve ascents are the most slimline crafts I can imagine.

That's my point. I think eve needs to be the last stop so IRSU won't be necessary.

[TheBrisbyMouse]

Somebody call Whackjob. We have a Whacky job for him.

[Lego8_bit]

Somebody call Whackjob. We have a Whacky job for him.

No We need someone who does it with style WE NEED DANNY!!!!

[Rath]

While SSTOs to laythe are possible (someone managed to do it with the largest engine is KSP and basically a rocket with some wings), there is no bloody way to get back in orbit if you have to drag IRSU gear with you as thats at a bare minimum ~5 tons of dry mass you need to drag into orbit! Its hard enough to get a MK1 pod to SSTO from eve, and that weighs near nothing, let alone a IRSU converter thats 4 tons.

Laythe SSTO is easer than on kerbin.

[Hagen von Tronje]

I'm thinking one approach would be to make a rocket SSTO with ISRU rated for both Tylo and Laythe, and a separate, staged Eve lander/launcher, both somehow stuck to the sides of a mothership transfer stage. The lifter isn't as tricky as making the SSTO and Eve return capsule docked firmly enough to be liftable rather than docked in orbit, and the whole thing stable enough to not be a disaster. The entire Eve vehicle can be ditched very early if you do Eve first, and at that point it's not much different than any other grand tour.

Another thought, you could even attach the vehicles separately from how they will dock/fly in space and dock them to each other in orbit, no? Rules are one lift, not no orbital assembly.

Not to say this is easy but I think it's plausible. Each step other than somehow sending it all up in one package has already been done by someone.

[Starwhip]

The Tyranny of the Rocket Equation is going to be the biggest obstacle here. Basically, there is only so much delta-v a ship can have before extra fuel simply doesn't cut it anymore. The more fuel you bring, the heavier you get, and the more fuel you need to get an equivalent increase in delta-v, so on and so forth. You need a ton of delta-v to do this challenge.

However, one time, someone made it to Eve and back... Twice.

37,000 m/s of delta-v.

I've not looked at a delta-v chart lately, would this number be big enough for a grand tour vessel? How much is needed?

[tseitsei]

The Tyranny of the Rocket Equation is going to be the biggest obstacle here. Basically, there is only so much delta-v a ship can have before extra fuel simply doesn't cut it anymore. The more fuel you bring, the heavier you get, and the more fuel you need to get an equivalent increase in delta-v, so on and so forth. You need a ton of delta-v to do this challenge.

However, one time, someone made it to Eve and back... Twice.

37,000 m/s of delta-v.

I've not looked at a delta-v chart lately, would this number be big enough for a grand tour vessel? How much is needed?

You can bring isru...

[TheMoonRover]

It is customary for the challenge poster to at least try and then show their attempt successful or not.

I will be very interested to see how far you get.

Actually I'm fairly sure it's one of the rules for posting challenges.

[panzer1b]

Laythe SSTO is easer than on kerbin.

By a laythe SSTO i was referring to a single stage craft that gets to laythe from kerbin, lands, and returns to KSC without any refueling whatsoever. Those are fairly easy if you get the ascent profiles right and manage to drag insane levels of fuel with you.

i wasnt referring getting to orbit on laythe only, duh!

I'm thinking one approach would be to make a rocket SSTO with ISRU rated for both Tylo and Laythe, and a separate, staged Eve lander/launcher, both somehow stuck to the sides of a mothership transfer stage. The lifter isn't as tricky as making the SSTO and Eve return capsule docked firmly enough to be liftable rather than docked in orbit, and the whole thing stable enough to not be a disaster. The entire Eve vehicle can be ditched very early if you do Eve first, and at that point it's not much different than any other grand tour.

Another thought, you could even attach the vehicles separately from how they will dock/fly in space and dock them to each other in orbit, no? Rules are one lift, not no orbital assembly.

Not to say this is easy but I think it's plausible. Each step other than somehow sending it all up in one package has already been done by someone.

That would work, any lander that can do tylo/laythe can land near anywhere else (provided its not unaerodynamic and excessively draggy). Im actually thinking that with separate landers for dedicated planets it could be done. Eve needs its own lander since you can forget about dragging IRSU gear with you, and well everything else can be done with a single stage provided you refuel on the ground or the gravity is lowish even that may not be needed. The challenging planets are tylo, eve, and to a certain extent laythe since its atmo can cause trouble if the lander isnt designed with aerodynamics in mind at least to some extent. Guess its time to restart design of my tylo dropship (that would have if i did it right enough dV to land and takeoff withotu refueling, easily i can add 5 tons of IRSU gear and make it fully SSTOable after refueling on surface).

[origamiscienceguy]

Also, it seems his rules are that you cannot dock/undock at all. It has to be one ship that lands everywhere.

[tseitsei]

Also, it seems his rules are that you cannot dock/undock at all. It has to be one ship that lands everywhere.

Nowhere in the op does he say no docking... He just says that one ship must land on every celestial body. But not necessarily the whole ship you have with you and not necessarily without docking...

[origamiscienceguy]

I'm getting the no docking vibe from this text:

By one vessel do you mean one launch or one ship has to visit every single planet? Or can I send up several spacecraft on a single rocket, (say make a lander for Eve, land, return and redock the capsule to the mothership) then move on?

Also what about mods? Can I use Atomic Age and NFT?

No mods, single launch.

[tseitsei]

No mods, single launch doesn't mean no docking.

Also one criteria from op was that one ship must land everywhere. Note that this doesn't mean that your whole ship you launch to space needs to land AND it doesn't forbid docking some extra modules to your lander for harder places (tylo eve laythe) as long as that one same ship is part of the ship that lands everywhere.

At least that's how I interpret it and that's the only way I think this would be possible