parts [1.12.x] 'Project Orion' Nuclear Pulse Engine

[ksp_colin]

On 5/28/2018 at 3:13 PM, ksp_colin said:

 

Sorry trying to clean up this formatting mess I've made and keep this all in one post.

 

I am seeing this as well. I started with a clean install from CKAN. Then removed 'Project Orion' from CKAN and then downloaded->installed Orion_0.7.0.0. Still same issue. I once got both the Medusa and Orion engines to work a few weeks back by rotating the Orion Fuel Tank 180 degrees but no combination of orientation is fixing the issue this time. I am on KSP 1.4.2

Gamedata: https://imgur.com/a/rbpzD6f

ksp.log : https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/XkMDvM4ZZW/

Copying the same behavior I am seeing from another post, although I am observing this on both engines, not just Medusa: https://imgur.com/a/epH2O

oh and I am trying all combinations of the fuel as well. I understand how to right click and change fuel type from the engine in orbit, and how to configure the tank in the VAB

@RoverDude I think I can prove that AGX (action groups extended - normally a fantastic mod and I still do recommend it) may be the guilty culprit here. And I think I can suggest a work around for AGX users.

In my .SFS save files, I can see thousands of instances of Modules for AGX, with these ~20 lines always about the same : https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/bHTj8fTmJp/

Clearly they are suspicious, but I can assure I have not had any issues with AGX to this point. I installed it a few months back and have always loved it (still do). But those Module definitions look like they could use some attention.

I repeated my same tests from yesterdays post with both Orion and Medusa engines - made a simple vessel in the VAB and then used the cheat->setOrbit and was able to recreate the failure that I and several users described. Then while in LKO I simply right clicked on AGX, then "Edit Actions" and then set 10 ('0' on the keypad) to 'Toggle Engine'. Then did a engine toggle cycle back and forth by pressing '0' twice and behold... vibrant colors exploding about my engines and damn near infinite dV while blasting nukes into LKO. The engines come alive again.

I will post this over in the AGX forum too. Maybe wishful thinking but I think AGX + Project Orion could be the issue that some of us are experiencing. Thanks again for your outstanding support throughout the years on reddit and in these forums. I was able to corner this down thanks to you and other devs dedication to the community forums.

 

[TheMan2000]

Given that 1) these engines have only two throttle settings ("on" or "off"), and 2) their thrust is determined only by the fuel type (bomb size) used, is there any way to make that true thrust value available to mods like Better Burn Time, MJ, and KER? Because while I love these engines, I often don't use them because I tend to rely heavily on very accurate maneuver execution. Maybe combine the fuel pellet tank and engine into one content-switchable part? Or maybe just a MM patch that tells those mods what to look for? 

P.S. Can the Medusa only open in a vacuum, or is it bugged?

Edit: Oh well, brute force and hopeful guessing it is, then.  *shrug* Thank you for the rapid response. 

Edited June 3, 2018 by TheMan2000
thanks for response

[RoverDude]

3 hours ago, TheMan2000 said:

Given that 1) these engines have only two throttle settings ("on" or "off"), and 2) their thrust is determined only by the fuel type (bomb size) used, is there any way to make that true thrust value available to mods like Better Burn Time, MJ, and KER? Because while I love these engines, I often don't use them because I tend to rely heavily on very accurate maneuver execution. Maybe combine the fuel pellet tank and engine into one content-switchable part? Or maybe just a MM patch that tells those mods what to look for? 

 

P.S. Can the Medusa only open in a vacuum, or is it bugged?

Medusa is vac only.  And 'accurate maneuver execution' does not go hand in hand with these engines, especially considering their placement in the tech tree.  As far as data availability, that's up to those mods - but given how radically different these work code wise, I would be very surprised if they decided to code for these as they are (relative to those mods) edge cases.

[Turf]

The nuclear pulse magazine gives negative funds when I empty all the NPU in the VAB.

[infantjones]

So what exactly is the rationale behind making the engines "all or nothing", allowing no change in the rate the bombs are fired out?

[toric5]

Both the medusa and the orion seem to be producing a very large amount of torque. any ship that does not have ridiculous amounts of reaction wheels goes into an immediate spin. The orions gimbals can handle it, but the medusa does not have a gimball...

[RoverDude]

Either add more mass, or reduce the size of the bombs you're using and see if that sorts it.

[toric5]

10 hours ago, RoverDude said:

Either add more mass, or reduce the size of the bombs you're using and see if that sorts it.

Tried both. By the time the ship is large enough that the rotation does not start immediatly, it is frail enough that only the smallest bombs avoid rapid detachment of the engine from the rest of the craft.

Even then, the rotation still builds up over time, and the SAS typically is not strong enough to counteract it. Could one of the model transforms be off?

This is tested on the medusa, BTW. the orion can be worked around, as it has gimbal.

[magnemoe]

On 9/4/2018 at 7:10 PM, infantjones said:

So what exactly is the rationale behind making the engines "all or nothing", allowing no change in the rate the bombs are fired out?

Engines is all or nothing as bombs fire then the plate comes up again, bomb will both cancel the plate movement and push it up again. 
So fire rate is fixed to the cycle time of the plate. 
You want to use chemical engines for the fine adjustments anyway. 

[Jasseji]

On 11/21/2018 at 9:43 PM, toric5 said:

Tried both. By the time the ship is large enough that the rotation does not start immediatly, it is frail enough that only the smallest bombs avoid rapid detachment of the engine from the rest of the craft.

Even then, the rotation still builds up over time, and the SAS typically is not strong enough to counteract it. Could one of the model transforms be off?

This is tested on the medusa, BTW. the orion can be worked around, as it has gimbal.

working with the same problem now, did you find a solution perhaps ?

Edited January 8, 2019 by Jasseji

[toric5]

5 hours ago, Jasseji said:

working with the same problem now, did you find a solution perhaps ?

added a bit of gimbal to the medusa with module manager.

[Jasseji]

7 hours ago, toric5 said:

added a bit of gimbal to the medusa with module manager.

ok, will try, thx

[Jasseji]

yes, that was it, additionally i created new bomb definitions and my DSEV is now running on NPU-750, NPU-1000 and NPU-1250 (although with 1000 and 1250, the Kerbals need to be frozen for the acceleration :D)

[SlamduncAZ]

Is there any way to produce more NPU or Ablative Oil off-world/in-situ? (using resources mined off-world)

I am working on an interstellar ark that uses an Orion, and I want it to be reusable.

Edited April 29, 2019 by SlamduncAZ

[Mekan1k]

As this is one of my favorite mods, I hope it is still supported.

[goldenpsp]

2 hours ago, Mekan1k said:

As this is one of my favorite mods, I hope it is still supported.

Did you bother to look?  It is current for 1.6.1 if you check the latest download.  And given as @RoverDude has stated there were no breaking api changes in 1.7 it still works.

[Mekan1k]

18 hours ago, goldenpsp said:

Did you bother to look?  It is current for 1.6.1 if you check the latest download.  And given as @RoverDude has stated there were no breaking api changes in 1.7 it still works.

I'm testing it today actually.... But yes, I did find that.

[Guest]

On 2/13/2018 at 7:42 AM, Jasseji said:

Hello @RoverDude i didnt use this mod for a while and recently i found out, that there is only one throttle setting = MAX

I was under the impression, that the throttle setting should control bomb frequency, but in my cases, even at the lowest settings, the bombs start shooting out in a stream - i used this mod some time ago and i remember it was possible to control the frequency

Was something changed in this regard ? I Browsed through this thread but wasnt able to find anything (bad search propably)

The bomb fire rate could indeed be varied via throttling in the past, and I don't think the maximum rate was quite as fast as it is now. It appears these engines no longer actually work as pulse propulsion, and the rate of fire was increased perhaps to make that less apparent. The newer iteration certainly fires faster than a realistic NPP unit in any case (only one bomb should be out at a time, or the one behind it will propel those in front into the pusher plate and cause a lot of damage).

I have screenshots of a test in version 1.0.5 where the fire rate was throttleable; if you want to control the rate of fire you might need to go back to a 2015-2016 build of the mod. Each bomb used to produce a 5+ G spike, but nowadays the thrust is apparently constant; both nearby surroundings and the G-meter don't waver at all.

Edited July 27, 2019 by Guest
no point in image

[KAO]

Does anybody know how to manipulate the animation speed, min pulse time, and max pulse time in the cfg file to get more realistic rates?

[SlamduncAZ]

Does this mod work for 1.8.1?

[goldenpsp]

6 hours ago, SlamduncAZ said:

Does this mod work for 1.8.1?

DId you check the GitHub releases from the link in the OP?  (hint, it has the answer).

[SlamduncAZ]

22 hours ago, goldenpsp said:

DId you check the GitHub releases from the link in the OP?  (hint, it has the answer).

I already tested it in-game. It works.

[NadenH]

On 8/1/2018 at 8:18 AM, Turf said:

The nuclear pulse magazine gives negative funds when I empty all the NPU in the VAB.

I found this odd too. Especially since the price was about 400k credits and the final value is 1.4 million. I took this to mean the base price of the part excluding the nuke pellets is 400k and the value of the part filled to the brim is 1.4 mil. I modified the config to reflect this.

I changed Resources.cfg to this:

RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
    //This is a 2.5L Cartridge (was $100) 
	name = NPU-250			
    density = 0.005
    unitCost = 50.05
    flowMode = STACK_PRIORITY_SEARCH
	transfer = PUMP
    isTweakable = true
}

RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
    //This is a 5L Cartridge(was $200)
	name = NPU-500			
    density = 0.01
    unitCost = 100.1
    flowMode = STACK_PRIORITY_SEARCH
	transfer = PUMP
    isTweakable = true
}

RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
    //This is a 10L Cartridge (was $400)
	name = NPU-1000			
    density = 0.02
    unitCost = 200.2
    flowMode = STACK_PRIORITY_SEARCH
	transfer = PUMP
    isTweakable = true
}

RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
    //This is a 25L Cartridge (was $1000)
	name = NPU-2500		
    density = 0.05
    unitCost = 500.5
    flowMode = STACK_PRIORITY_SEARCH
	transfer = PUMP
    isTweakable = true
}


RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
	name = AblativeOil
    density = 0.001
    unitCost = 10
    flowMode = ALL_VESSEL
	transfer = PUMP
    isTweakable = true
}

 

[NadenH]

What brought me to the forum was some of the animation (this particular thread anyway).

I assume it is a bug but I read something about syncing various effects and animations earlier on. Perhaps this is part of it. But it appears when using the medusa and you fall into the atmosphere it retracts... but continues "shooting pellets" (animation only) that blow up along with the sounds. The sounds stop when bringing throttle to zero but animation continues.

Didn't test Orion. Tried once and ended up doing cartwheels and running out of EC by the time I neared 70km. I assume it should produce less thrust capturing a tiny amount of energy from the explosion vs. Medusa. Being a game however and seeing it is the same price I guess it is the same? Seems odd.

Would be neat if different sound effects were in place when fuel was incompatible with selection or otherwise can't be used.

[Shadowscale]

Mod no longer works on 1.9