[1.1.3] MKS Lite - A lighter, friendlier colonization mod from USI [0.4.4]

[RyanW1019]

Any feedback is fine. If you find an actual issue that you don't want to get missed log a github.

Usually if I am unsure I post about it here. If I'm pretty sure its a bug I check github to see if an issue already exists and if not log a new one. Anything that helps keep Roverdude organized helps us all.

Sounds good. Also, the Kolony Tube lights are no longer working, in addition to the Anchor Hub lights not working.

[RoverDude]

Log these please. The joys of multiple Unity versions.

[RyanW1019]

Logged the lighting issues on GitHub.

@RyanW1019: There is no need to actively generate Mulch, since Kerbals only require Supplies to stay alive and they produce Mulch. Fertilizer is another method for generating supplies from Mulch, but I assume that this was left out, since via Dirt->Orcanics->Supplies you already can produce an unlimited amount of Supplies.

As noted by others, mulch is essentially 'poop'. Kerbals make this. Side note, I have an idea for a tweak to help make this more obvious. It's really a matter of keeping MKS-L's abstraction simple enough. And if you have dirt, you can absolutely be self sufficient. So as long as you have Kerbals you have an infinite mulch supply

This is no longer true in 0.0.2. The Agricultural Module now requires Fertilizer along with Dirt and EC to produce Organics. Currently, there are 3 methods of producing Supplies, assuming you have an excess of Dirt & Electric Charge:

• Recycle Mulch directly into Supplies. This has an efficiency of 50% regardless of whether you're using the NOM 5000 or 25000. So, if you rely on recycling your Mulch for food, you will eventually run out of Supplies & Mulch.
  
• Use the Agricultural Module to convert Fertilizer into Organics, then convert Organics to Supplies. The latter process has 100% efficiency, and the former has a 333% efficiency. However, you have to convert Mulch into Fertilizer with the Recycler in the Hab Module, and this process has an efficiency of about 10%. So, you still have sub-100% efficiency overall on the process, and will eventually run out of Fertilizer, Mulch, Supplies, and Organics.
  
• Use the Agroponics function in the NOM 25000 to convert Fertilizer & Mulch into Supplies. This process has a 118% efficiency with respect to Mulch and a 600% efficiency with respect to Fertilizer, however you have the same problem as the previous option. You can only get Fertilizer by converting Mulch, and the efficiency is so low that you still run out of Mulch/Fertilizer/Supplies eventually.
  

So, no matter what ratio of Kerbals and Kolonization buildings you have, you can't reach a steady state where you can survive indefinitely. Best case, you can set up a system where Mulch, Organics, and Supplies have net zero production/consumption (with the ratio of 20 Kerbals:10 Hab Modules:3 Agricultural Modules), but you will need the occasional shipments of Fertilizer in order to keep the process going. You need to roughly triple the rate of Fertilizer production from the Recycler in order to get a truly self-sustaining system.

I'm OK with having to get a specific ratio of buildings in order to be sustainable, but I really hope that true sustainability is possible in this mod. The concept of having to make periodic shipments of Fertilizer to Laythe does not appeal to me. Even if it takes a lot of work to get to, please make it possible to reach a point where your base no longer requires outside assistance to function.

Also, I can link the Excel spreadsheet I used to check these if anyone is interested. Makes it very easy to design a base on paper.

[panarchist]

Also, I can link the Excel spreadsheet I used to check these if anyone is interested. Makes it very easy to design a base on paper.

Is anyone ever *not* interested in the spreadsheet? ;-)

I certainly am - link it, please!

[RyanW1019]

Is anyone ever *not* interested in the spreadsheet? ;-)

I certainly am - link it, please!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tYSpOUw9gTSoE0i5p1oHP1yHuPxg-oyUgqpvoyKtxms/edit?usp=sharing

Let me know if you can edit this...or download it, or whatever. I'm new to Google Drive sharing. If it's not working, I'll fix it in the morning.

Also, I didn't bother accounting for anything beyond the life support resources. Feel free to give feedback or let me know if I did something incorrectly.

Edited October 4, 2015 by RyanW1019

[RoverDude]

Slightly incorrect.

Mulch converted to fertilizer becomes twice as much supplies as you had mulch... i.e. you should over time actually grow more food (the extra mass comes from the dirt.

[RyanW1019]

Slightly incorrect.

Mulch converted to fertilizer becomes twice as much supplies as you had mulch... i.e. you should over time actually grow more food (the extra mass comes from the dirt.

I feel like I'm missing something then. Looking at the info for each building in the VAB, the Hab module's Recycler says it takes 2.16 Mulch/day and converts it to 0.22 Fertilizer/day. So that's a 10% efficient process. The Agricultural Module takes 2.16 Fertilizer/day and converts it to 0.72 Organics/hour, or 4.32 Organics/day. That's a 200% efficient process. The Hab Module's Habitat takes 2.16 Organics/day and converts it to 2.16 Supplies/day. That's a 100% efficient process.

So to standardize it to 1 unit of Supplies:

• 1 unit of Supplies becomes 1 unit of Mulch
  
• 1 unit of Mulch becomes 0.1 unit of Fertilizer
  
• 0.1 unit of Fertilizer becomes 0.2 units of Organics
  
• 0.2 units of Organics becomes 0.2 units of Supplies
  

Am I getting something wrong or has the VAB documentation not been updated? I'm confused.

I believe you that it's supposed to work out, I just don't see the configuration of buildings that results in a net efficiency greater than 100%. If someone could let me know where my mistake is, I would greatly appreciate it.

[goldenpsp]

I feel like I'm missing something then.

You are:

the extra mass comes from the dirt

[RyanW1019]

You are:

I'm assuming an excess of dirt and electric charge, because you can just put a ton of extra Sifters, solar panels, and battteries on your ship. I'm only looking at the efficiency of the process with respect to Mulch/Fertilizer/Organics/Supplies. It doesn't matter how much extra dirt you have, because the ratio of Fertilizer:Organics is set at 1:2. If you have a surplus of Dirt, for every 1 unit of Fertilizer, you can make 2 units of Organics. Converting that into Supplies and back into Mulch yields 2 units of mulch, but then you can only recycle that back into 0.2 units of fertilizer. You can have all the dirt you want, but it doesn't change the ratio of required ingredients making it impossible to be self-sustaining. Right now, the low efficiency of the Mulch-->Fertilizer process is the limiting factor.

You don't have an infinite supply of Mulch; it's limited by the number of Kerbals you have consuming Supplies. And the only way you can currently get Fertilizer is by recycling Mulch. So you have to have greater than 100% efficiency on the overall process with respect to Supplies, Fertilizer, Organics, and Mulch. If you run out of any of them, the entire process stops working.

Edited October 4, 2015 by RyanW1019

[RoverDude]

Well except that a Kerbal who poos 1L of mulch will get enough stuff out of it to make 2L of supplies... which in turn can become 2L of mulch that transforms into 4L of supplies, etc.

So you will tend to see a buildup over time (or should, I'l double check all of the math)

[Badsector]

Probably is a typing error

Agroponics

0.0001 fertilizer and 0.01 dirt = 0.0002 Organics

Recycler

0.0001 mulch = 0.00001 Fertilizer

With those values is 20% recycling because you need 10 units of mulch for get 2 units of organics

[RoverDude]

Yep that's very likely it (will sort the math once I finish what I am working on today for Squad)

[RyanW1019]

That would make sense. If the recycler is supposed to be a 1:1 converter of Mulch:Fertilizer instead of 1:0.1, then we are in business.

Current code for the recycler in the Hab Module is:

INPUT_RESOURCE

{

ResourceName = Mulch

Ratio = 0.0001

}

OUTPUT_RESOURCE

{

ResourceName = Fertilizer

Ratio = 0.00001

DumpExcess = False

}

If the fertilizer ratio is 0.0001 instead of 0.00001, then sustainability is absolutely possible with a few different configurations.

Edited October 4, 2015 by RyanW1019

[RoverDude]

0.0.3 is up!

• Thanks NyankoSensei for an AntennaRange config and some node tweaks to reduce jumpiness
  
• The Scout command pod is now a proper EL survey station
  
• Removed the 3-ton limit for logistics Rovers so that the Scout pod and Karibou can now properly operate as resource distributors
  
• Fixed missing emmissives on the rigid tube and anchor hub
  
• Fixed issue where too muich fertilizer was being consumed - bases should now be able to stockpile organics and (if you have more room in your habs than kerbals) supplies.
  
• Dirt is a lot more common.. common as, well, dirt
  
• Ag Module now stores Organics, Fertilizer, and Dirt.
  
• A lot of tweaking on the anchor hub to make it easier to move around
  
• All modules got a diet - most are 1000L, flex o tubes are 500
  
• Hab modules now store Fertilizer
  
• The sifter and smelter now store Ore and Dirt (so less ISMs are needed)
  

[brgold]

Ok, for the life of me I cannot figure out how to attach the flexotubes. I understand to equip the screwdriver and flexotube with the Engineer and I can get one side attached but when I enable link mode the only option I get when I hold down H or X is "detach". What am I doing wrong?

[rabidninjawombat]

Ok, for the life of me I cannot figure out how to attach the flexotubes. I understand to equip the screwdriver and flexotube with the Engineer and I can get one side attached but when I enable link mode the only option I get when I hold down H or X is "detach". What am I doing wrong?

http://i.imgur.com/hK9aZYL.jpg

Flexotubes are like KAS Pipes, you have to have a flexotube at the other end as well.. then just right click the other tube and hit "Attach"

[RoverDude]

You need a flexotube on each end - they are just really big KAS pipes

[brgold]

Well, dont I feel like an idiot! It works now, thanks!

[Der Kosmos]

Would it be safe to remove UKS and install KMS lite as a downgrade? I don't have any bases built yet, but I do have radial supply containers on some of my spacecraft.

[metl]

What's the odds of getting a OKS lite as well?

[RoverDude]

It remains possible, we'll see.

[IGNOBIL]

Been playing a bit with this, so easy to set up base, with just one rocket sent a self sustainable base to Minmus, on a perpetual sunshine spot in the south pole, nice sweet spot full of ore!

Still not sure if TACLS is working, doesn't seem to be making food, just looks like its making organics.

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[monstah]

with just one rocket sent a self sustainable base to Minmus, on a perpetual sunshine spot in the south pole

...you sure it isn't just summer there? It might be a long night afterwards!

[IGNOBIL]

...you sure it isn't just summer there? It might be a long night afterwards!

damn it, I forgot about the orbital inclination:huh: better build a fuel cell, otherwise, rescue mission... oh wait, I packed a ore based power cell

[Badsector]

doesn't seem to be making food, just looks like its making organics.

http://imgur.com/a/A3bM2

Organics need to be converted in Supplies and that happens only in Habitat, 1 Habitat Convert Organics into supplies for 2 kerbals