Single Ship Kerbol Exploration

[RA3236]

Hello,

I've been wondering for a while if it's possible to make a rocket that visits every celestial object, maybe including a random asteroid, in stock KSP without refuelling. Anyone got anything?

P.S. No infinite fuel please, and I don't care about landings

I could put this on the challenge forum if wanted, but for now this is not a challenge.

Sorry I don't have anything to show off

All I want to see is who has done it.

Edited October 2, 2015 by RA3236
Update post

[CalculusWarrior]

To visit each celestial body wouldn't be impossible, an ion probe with a whole bunch of xenon and batteries should be possible, using clever planetary gravity assists. To actually brake into orbit around every body (or Squad forbid, land on everything) is significantly more difficult, and I would say impossible in the case of landing on Eve, Tylo, etc.).

Edited October 2, 2015 by CalculusWarrior

[RA3236]

How 'bout manned?

[eddiew]

You're asking a hell of a lot of delta-v for a mission without ISRU... the sanest way is to have a detachable mining rig that can refuel the mothership. Outside of that you need... many, many km/s in the tank. Without mods you're basically boned, I think you'd hit unbearable lag due to part count before you got a ship big enough for the job.

[RA3236]

Well, maybe a challenge will go up to see who can do it with the refueler. Maybe.

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Or without one...

- - - Updated - - -

Okay I'm making a challenge for this if there hasn't been one.

[Yukon0009]

It IS possible but you would neet to split the main ship up into a few bits.

[CalculusWarrior]

How 'bout manned?

A crewed mission adds more payload, hence requiring exponentially more fuel to take you the same way. I'd consider allowing for refueling stops if you want to do this, if nothing else to just keep part count down so your computer doesn't burst into flames!

[More Boosters]

A crewed mission adds more payload, hence requiring exponentially more fuel to take you the same way. I'd consider allowing for refueling stops if you want to do this, if nothing else to just keep part count down so your computer doesn't burst into flames!

For very large craft the crew pods add 1-4 tons over an unmanned craft which is rather negligible (in that case). Though I'll admit the mass on the 3 Kerbal command pod is utterly ridiculous.

[RA3236]

Okay I've posted a challenge for people on the Challenges Forum, but thank you for this info! it will be useful!

[_stilgar_]

A crewed mission adds more payload, hence requiring exponentially more fuel to take you the same way. I'd consider allowing for refueling stops if you want to do this, if nothing else to just keep part count down so your computer doesn't burst into flames!

That's not how rocket equation works.

If you want to go "the same way", meaning, having the same delta-v... it's linear. If your rocket has certain payload fraction and you want to double the payload, you have to double the rest of the rocket - because you could have just sent two, exactly the same rockets, couldn't you? Double the payload, double the fuel.

If you want to go FURTHER and increase delta-v... now that's when it's exponential.

[Arsonik]

Not exactly what your looking for, but whenever people ask about voyages like this I think back to Scott hitting several of the major SOI's on his second launch in career mode. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqPyyaUjTpI] If this is possible, what you are asking for is definitely possible. The biggest obstacle for most people is constructing a craft that fits the bill but doesn't melt your PC (or crash the game). Cheers

[RA3236]

Thanks I won't cause I have a bad computer! Thank you

[Norcalplanner]

What you're talking about is known as a Grand Tour. I'm aware of at least four people who have done such a tour without refueling, all documented as part of the original Jool-5 challenge. Click on this link and scroll down to where one of the leaderboards reads "Jebediah's Level + Grand Tour". All of these were in earlier versions of KSP making extended use of massless parts, so weight will be more of an issue. On the other hand, aero is better, so maybe it balances out a bit.

[technion]

I read several of the grand tour reports and contemplated it myself after completing the Jool5. The thing that always struck me is.. moho. It's painful at the best of times, and I struggle massively with the absurdity what would be required to go from Kerbin to Eve to Moho, and THEN come back outwards.

[magnemoe]

I read several of the grand tour reports and contemplated it myself after completing the Jool5. The thing that always struck me is.. moho. It's painful at the best of times, and I struggle massively with the absurdity what would be required to go from Kerbin to Eve to Moho, and THEN come back outwards.

I used an ion craft from Eve to Moho, chemical lander, with the new ions you might land with it too, at least if you leave an xenon depot in orbit for the return trip.

[Skorpychan]

Without refuelling AT ALL?

Hideously heavy. And you'll be dropping empty fuel tanks all the time. Or, alternatively, just pick out a big enough asteroid, and hook onto it as a gigantic fuel tank. Refine as you go, and you won't need more than a few thousand deltaV worth of tanks at any time.

[RA3236]

The type of asteroid that could help is an E class - they cannot be flown to a great standard because they weigh 300 TONS!!!

[Guz]

my best attempt to do something like this was my 0.90 grand-tour ship.

it landed on all planets & moons except for tylo moho and eve.

[magnemoe]

What you're talking about is known as a Grand Tour. I'm aware of at least four people who have done such a tour without refueling, all documented as part of the original Jool-5 challenge. Click on this link and scroll down to where one of the leaderboards reads "Jebediah's Level + Grand Tour". All of these were in earlier versions of KSP making extended use of massless parts, so weight will be more of an issue. On the other hand, aero is better, so maybe it balances out a bit.

I did a grand tour without refueling back in 0.20 I think, it was easier back then as you did not have reentry heat.

This is the ship going to Eve. Eve lander on top. Lylo lander on the front side, Laythe and the Moho ion craft on back. Small body lander on the side

An current grand tour would be more like my 0.18 kethane grand tour. Mothership and miner / lander.

Edited October 14, 2015 by magnemoe

[Gaarst]

Do you include landing or not ?

If not, then I did the math some time ago, and found out you'd need something like 25k m/s dV to get into low orbit of each planet (Jool's moons won't require much more with gravity assists) with a non-optimised trajectory. Can easily be achieved with ion propulsion, even with a command pod, with long enough burns.

I had this project of taking Jeb to a panoramic grand tour of the system: get in orbit of every planet while aboard a Cupola, single launch, no refueling. Accidently deleted that install while messing around with other modded installs, so not going to happen... Still very possible.

Edit: actually kinda want to do it now. I'll work on a few designs, and if I get something interesting, as well as a day available for several hours burns, I'll seriously consider it.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Gaarst

[SlithyTove]

The type of asteroid that could help is an E class - they cannot be flown to a great standard because they weigh 300 TONS!!!

3000 tons. The class E's go from 800 to 3600 tons.

It requires a big learning curve to build ships that handle them well and the burn times are long, but my favorite class e hauler so far has something like 70k delta v when it hitches up to a midsized e. Could easily handle a grand tour picking up new roids as needed. Could tow a lander back there that could return from anywhere but eve too.

Assuming you didn't die of boredom from the burn times of course.

[magnemoe]

It does not include landing, this simplify stuff a lot, now if you don't land you really don't need to orbit either.

Making things even simpler as you do not need the expensive Moho braking burn neither the Dress or Eeloo circulation one, You should even be able to pass close to both Duna and Ike if you time your arrival however doing so might make things simpler, as You don't need low orbit this will not be too expensive.

You will have to orbit around Eve and Jool because of Gilly and the moons of Jool

[Terwin]

Edit: actually kinda want to do it now. I'll work on a few designs, and if I get something interesting, as well as a day available for several hours burns, I'll seriously consider it.

When I was pushing a Class C with an electric drive in my Outer Grand Tour ship, I found that starting those burns just before bed time and using KAC with a pause-game alarm set to go off a few minutes before the burn was due to end worked well.

Just be careful of SOI changes, as apparently the heading of your burn is relative to the current body, so changing SOI will change the absolute direction of your burn target.

[Temporal Wolf]

It's definitely doable without landings. I've lofted ion ships with enough dV... just might have to wait a few years between each transfer to get a good window.

It's just a grand tour without landings (or even orbits?).

I think it would be a good challenge: lowest dV at launch for the completion... watch the 30 year journeys roll in.