Lifter designs database for newbs

[Thunder_86]

Hi guys!

So... I've been looking around in this section, and its really hard to find the information I've been looking for. I'd like to use this thread to document choices of lifters for various weight ratings.

What I would like to do is that you guys can send me the desing of your lifters along with how much weight they can send to orbit around Kerbin. Lets make it a benchmark of a LKO of 100km. So a 40t lifter would have to bring a 40t payload into a 100km orbit around kerbin.

What I am suggesting is for you guys to send me designs via PM. You can either give me some sorts of blueprints or simply clear printscreens of your lifters, or the files to the craft itself. The reason I want them by PM is to limit the amount of replies in this thread so that I can keep it clean, simple, and easy to follow. I will, of course, give all the credit to the author of the design in here. If you send a design that is not from you, please include the name of the original creator so that I can give the credit to the right person. Don't send a design that's not yours unless you are certain that the original creator is ok with the fact that his/her design is made public. I will try to keep this thread updated with the top 2 or 3 lifters I've received for each weight rating. I may, sometimes, modify your rating a little bit. For example, if you send me a design for a 80 tons lifter, and I find it a bit too hard to lift 80 tons with it (like it barely has enough DV to reach a 100km orbit, and any mistake would mean not getting it), I may classify it for a lower DV. Since I still lack experience with the game, I think that if I can use it successfully, anyone can.

The rules are simple:

- Your design must be composed of ONLY stock parts. No parts from any mod whatsoever. None. I do have mech jeb, but I do not want to use it for this at all. the reason for it is to make sure that everybody can use them, without being forced to install mods.

- Your design have to be clear for me to follow. If you don't give me printscreens that I can see exactly how the craft is made, I may decide to overlook it. Include more than one print screen if the craft is too complex! I don't even know how that works but I think you can also just send the files for the craft. You can do that too, I'll take care of making the printscreens.

- If you have specific directions on how to control the craft, like don't turn before 15km or whatever, please include those when you send the designs.

- I would like for your designs to include a bit of extra fuel. Remember, this topic is not necessarily for the more experienced players. It's purpose is to help out new players. I am expecting the people who will use your designs, including myself, to make piloting errors. Please don't assume it will be piloted flawlessly. Doesn't have to include double the DeltaV needed, but lets say it would be nice for it to have at least 2-300 m/s extra once you are in a stable orbit.

- I reserve the right to post my own printscreen instead of yours if I find yours are not clear enough. However, I will still give you full credits for it. Its just about making it easy for the people to replicate the lifter.

- I don't have payload categories set in stone at the moment. Just tell me how much weight you personally rate your lifters for, I'll organize them in categories myself. May vary a bit from yours but I'll try to classify them in a category as close as possible to your rating. (I don't want to have 100 categories lol.) However, even if I put it in a slightly diffrent category, I will include the rating you gave me (if you tell me a lifter is rated for 80 tons, but after my classification it ends up in the 60 tons category, I'll mention that you rated it for 80 tons).

I'm sure that would help so many people to gain experience in the game. Seeing other people's designs, well organized like that helps to see what works and what doesn't.

Similarily, you can also send me designs for thugs and SSTOs. I may be creating seperate threads for those though, or compile them in a diffrent post in this thread. Keep in mind I am absolutely horrible when it comes to piloting SSTOs I've never really used them I am no clue what I'm doing with those.

Please keep the chit-chat to a minimum here, the goal is for this thread to be as clear as possible. I don't want people to have to be looking in 40 pages to find their designs. I'd like this thread to fit in only one or two pages ideally. I want this thread to be as usefull as possible for me and all the other newbies out there!

I hope you guys are willing to help out on this! I think that would be a great tool for all the newbies.

Again, if you want to submit a design or if you have questions or comments, try to PM me instead of replying here, as I'm trying to keep the thread as clear as possible!

[Thunder_86]

Well, apparently not too many people are willing to share their creations...

I'll upload mine instead, but they aren't great (far from it), and are still work in progress... I have the tendency to build them too big and too inefficient. Over time, if I get your submissions, I'll replace mine with those...

[Vanamonde]

I build a new launcher for each payload, as I like to build them around the payload for greater inter-bracing and sturdiness.

So didn't mean to ignore you. Just had no standard launchers to share.

[selfish_meme]

I too usually build custom launchers. I built some standard ones for the Dunatian but they are replicas and involve compromises for aesthetic reasons.

[Azimech]

Building launchers is for me like making breakfast. I had a standard launcher 2 years ago but got bored with the idea because it was overpowered (this was before size/mass/part count/currency limits were introduced).

A day comes you've got enough experience you can build huge rockets with a minimum amount of struts and it's still stable. There is a database, just copy real world examples. The Soyuz family is a clear example of a winning design.

[Thunder_86]

Thanks people! I'll try to compile stuff, I've also received one from Mad Rocket Scientist by PM. I tested it out yesterday but had a hard time getting my payload in orbit. Might either be me or the fact that the lifter was, I think, tested for 1.02 but maybe not for 1.04. Most probably me tho. Had to add struts like crazy because the rocket would snap in half. His design have a smaller link between two large sections, and with the amount of weight I'm trying to put on it, it starts to torque like mad and then snaps. It was rated for 80t, but he said he lifted over 86t with it.

By the way, the way I'm testing those lifter out is I fill large ore tanks, full. Those have enormous weight(17t) in a small part. Its like twice as dense as an orange tank. So for lifting 80t, I use 4 full ones and 1 ~66% full one, that comes out to about 80t, very compact.

I will keep testing his lifter, trying to achieve better results wth it, as I'm sure I am the one making a mistake here. But then again, the goal of this is to find lifters for noobs like me so its a good test. I might end up rating it for a lower weight but including his own rating as well.

Now I feel really stupid, as I didn't even know the existence of KerbalX before he sent me his design. It kinda defeat the purpose of this thread, but I'll still try to update this because I can then classify them by payload weigth and have only the best ones. I may end up taking most of the designs over there, but feel free to send me yours, as if they are better, I'll definately use them in this post!

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

Thanks people! I'll try to compile stuff, I've also received one from Mad Rocket Scientist by PM. I tested it out yesterday but had a hard time getting my payload in orbit. Might either be me or the fact that the lifter was, I think, tested for 1.02 but maybe not for 1.04. Most probably me tho. Had to add struts like crazy because the rocket would snap in half. His design have a smaller link between two large sections, and with the amount of weight I'm trying to put on it, it starts to torque like mad and then snaps. It was rated for 80t, but he said he lifted over 86t with it.

By the way, the way I'm testing those lifter out is I fill large ore tanks, full. Those have enormous weight(17t) in a small part. Its like twice as dense as an orange tank. So for lifting 80t, I use 4 full ones and 1 ~66% full one, that comes out to about 80t, very compact.

I will keep testing his lifter, trying to achieve better results wth it, as I'm sure I am the one making a mistake here. But then again, the goal of this is to find lifters for noobs like me so its a good test. I might end up rating it for a lower weight but including his own rating as well.

Now I feel really stupid, as I didn't even know the existence of KerbalX before he sent me his design. It kinda defeat the purpose of this thread, but I'll still try to update this because I can then classify them by payload weigth and have only the best ones. I may end up taking most of the designs over there, but feel free to send me yours, as if they are better, I'll definately use them in this post!

Hmm, I'll give it another test.

[Alshain]

Well, I DON'T rebuild a lifter for every payload. I enjoy building the payloads, but I usually end with a better result from a pre-designed lifter. I've been recently updating my collection (I haven't done so since 0.90). These are all Subassemblies, not craft. They include decouplers, but not fairings which you would typically want to go below that decoupler. They are designed for use with StageRecovery so they do carry a bit extra weight in parachutes on the more expensive stages. The Tier 5 and higher decouplers include self de-orbiting sepatrons, so point prograde before staging. If you want 'pure' Tier 5 you can easily remove them. One other warning, these are designed for MY piloting skills (orbit @ 3400dV), so your ability to get them to orbit with their maximum mass may vary.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9097777/Alshain's%20Lifter%20Pack.zip

Some of these may end up not being that useful since you will have better tech by the time you have a need for their mass capability. Part-wise they are 100% stock, but as mentioned designed for StageRecovery and created using Kerbal NRAP.

Procedure for Best Usage (failure to do this will result in merged staging):

1. Check the description for the number of stage groups.

2. Add that many empty stages BEFORE stages in your payload (due to the way the game handles the stages).

3. Add the subassembly.

4. Move your payload stages to the top in the correct order.

Edited October 22, 2015 by Alshain

[Thunder_86]

Hmm, I'll give it another test.

Like I said its most probably me lol

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

Like I said its most probably me lol

My 86 payload is a full large kerbodyne tank, it comes in the download. I see the weak connection between the two parts. I will add struts to that and reupload it. My ascent profile is this:

At 1000m begin gently turning, never moving the directional marker out of the prograde marker. Continue doing that until ap=100,000m, then orbit.

[Thunder_86]

Excellent, I'll try that. I was going up for 10km before starting to turn. Told you it was me!

On another note, yesterday night I was looking at rootnegative's fleet of lifters on kerbalX. While I haven't tried them all, I downloaded them all and tried the biggest one, rated for 110t. The only words I have to describe his work: Holy ....! This thing is a beast! It lifted 110t to LKO absolutely effortlessly! Its super simple in its design, extremely efficient, and most importantly: soooo easy to fly!

I downloaded all his fleet, and I think I'm going to adopt it for my needs! he has 3 1.25m lifters for various payloads, he has something like 4 or 5 2.5m lifters for various payloads, and his big-ass 3.75m 110t lifter. The ONLY thing I don't like about his lifter is the lack of reaction wheels, probe core, solar panels and batteries. I wanted to fine tune my orbit but couldn't steer the ship anymore. When I design a lifter, I keep in mind that the thing I launch will maybe not have any control whatsoever, so I always include control in the lifter itself. Apart than that, his designs are absolutely awesome. He is also excellent at making the rockets good looking, the way he clips stuff, it makes for very interesting designs! I'm blown away by his work!

[SlithyTove]

One thing I can recommend: If you haven't read up on asparagus staging, do that now.

Well, like a lot of other people mentioned, I don't have a "stock lifter". Most things I build are so specialized that they require highly specialized lifters. Like this thing which needs the lifters underneath spread out to support the length inside the gravity and atmosphere of kerbin. It has to go pretty slow and burn straight up until it clears the atmosphere.

And, while still a WIP, here is my current 9-kerbal research base SSTO for juxtaposition. It's pretty much the opposite of the above craft for launches. Huge thrust and goes straight out at about a 45 degree angle off the launch pad. Design is pretty simple with the four radial mammoth stacks around the central payload.

[Thunder_86]

yeah, I know about asparagus! I use it all the time! My problem is not getting the delta V, its about design. I usually make things overly complicated, adding to the part count, and usually make the lifter very crappy when it comes to maneuverability

[selfish_meme]

You could also use mechjeb to test designs, it would take the 'you' factor out of it. Also if you watch mechjeb you will get a better feel for how to do it yourself. You don't have to use it, it's just a tool like any other.

[Thunder_86]

oh I do have it! but the point of this thread is to have designs for noobs to use.

Also, I didn't find a reliable mechjeb setting for launching. I use it for stable rockets, but even by limiting the AoA, sometimes, with mechjeb, my rockets tend to flip. What setting do you usually use for your ascend path? I may have messed it up at some point... I usually start the turn between 10 and 15 km, with helps reducing the odds of flipping but its too high for my liking. I usually end up doing the ascend myself. Mechjeb does the transfers for me. I can make the maneuvers myself, I'm pretty good at it, but mechjeb is faster. I tend to only use mechjeb for things I can easily do myself. for things I still have a hard time I prefer doing it manually to get better

[selfish_meme]

I use the default setting with don't exceed terminal velocity checked and don't overheat. My designs never exceed 1.6 TWR off the pad (intentionally) and I always make sure my rockets are streamlined. I rarely use fins at the back and don't really have a problem with flipping, when I do it is usually because of a weak connection and strengthening with a strut or two is enough. If it wobbles it's probably in danger of flipping.

[Thunder_86]

Those settings are okay with my mechjeb. its the ascend path I messed up :S

Its a good tip for the max 1.6 TWR tho I'll try no to exceed that!

[SlithyTove]

yeah, I know about asparagus! I use it all the time! My problem is not getting the delta V, its about design. I usually make things overly complicated, adding to the part count, and usually make the lifter very crappy when it comes to maneuverability

Oh, ok. I get the idea.

How about this thing? I use a similar design on a lot of things because it basically removes the whole wobble problem. The rocket stacks work to reinforce each other. Payload is either completely in the middle, or, in this case, the payload is a combination of the middle and the top of each stack which then makes a nice, broad lander and a nice squarish spacecraft for maneuverability. This one is pretty simple, flies nicely and is easy to see what is going on.

It's called the XP Bus because I slapped it together to take 9 fresh kerbal recruits and get them to level 3 in one flight.

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

Excellent, I'll try that. I was going up for 10km before starting to turn. Told you it was me!

[...]

I hope it works easily.

[Thunder_86]

Sorry I'm not updating this too fast, I'm still testing out the lifters, real life is crazy those days, a lot of forced traveling, a crap ton of errands to run, etc. I'll be back soon.

In the meantime, check out rootnegative's fleet on KerbalX, so far his lifters are the bomb! I'm still testing out yours!

[Alshain]

I re-uploaded mine. I realized I gave you a really old set instead of my new ones. Same link

[Wild Cobra]

Sorry, I'm putting it here for everyone to see instead of a PM.

I use four of these sections around a 913.2 ton payload:

I have all the SRBs split, then the outer 12 engines/tanks, then four more leaving the last four that still have fuel remaining to a low orbit. The actual weight is minus the 81 ton tank I attached it to for viewing.

I thought about having the tank/engine splits at 4/8/4/4, but I initially designed it with the 12 for stability reasons.

- - - Updated - - -

Here's an earlier version wth less SRB engines. Please note, my payload is a cross section of five size three parts, or a 11.25 meter diameter.

- - - Updated - - -

Here's the four last tank/rocket assemblies, where they ended up as orbital debris, taking a powered payload of >900 tons to the Mun:

Edited October 22, 2015 by Wild Cobra