RemoteTech Satellites

[thatguywiththejk]

Hey all,

I wasn't sure if I this was a user error or a game glitch so i just went with the former.

Anyways, I'm using RemoteTech and created a keosynchronous satellite formation with 4 satellites. Each satellite is properly connected to each other.

It looks like this for the most part:

The problem I'm having is I have one of the dishes on each satellite targeting the active

vessel, but it seems to not work when i put a test satellite up. I choose to believe this is a user error.

Note: I dont have any other formations other than the one at keosynchronous. Would that be a problem?

Note: I have 3 DTS-M1s as the dishes and 1 KR-14 on each. I have tried connecting the DTS-M1s to the Active Vessel though and no luck.

[Stone Blue]

Sounds like you need some kind of omni antenna for inner Kerbin SOI. With that exact network you have, if each sat had a Comm 32 on it, THAT would cover ALL of Kerbin SOI halfway out to Mun (about 6.2Mm). With dishes, craft need to be within the cones to connect. In other words, a craft must maneauver into the cone, or you have to orient the craft the dish is on specifically, to point at your active vessel. You can see in your image, the overlap of the cones (meaning constant comms to any craft) is limited to LKO. Anything in a higher orbit than where the cones intersect, will only connect as they travel into each cone...UNLESS you manually orient your KEO sat to point to the active vessel.

This screen cap shows coverage for 4 KEO sats with ONLY a single Comm32 each:

https://imgur.com/PPrM3I3

Here's the awesome website that does such magic :

https://ryohpops.github.io/kspRemoteTechPlanner/

Edited October 14, 2015 by Stone Blue

[DeMatt]

Assuming you've set up the links properly, such that each relay has links to each side and to ground, then the likeliest reason you're not getting comm on a test satellite is because that test satellite doesn't have an antenna capable of reaching the relays.

RemoteTech, by default, requires that each end of a communications link be capable of reaching the other. A KR-7 and a KR-14, aimed at each other, will only connect if they are within the KR-7's range. You can change this by digging into RemoteTech_Settings.cfg and changing "RangeModelType" from Standard to Additive - then a big antenna on one end will offset a small antenna on the other.

[Snark]

How are your satellite antennas set up? If you have a setup so that each satellite targets Kerbin, and its two neighbors, and the active vessel, it ought to work.

Can you post a screenshot showing what it looks like when you have a test satellite up? (i.e. with the highlighted bright-yellow path showing connectivity)

[Van Disaster]

Generally you only need a geostat sat over KSC as a relay for longer range networks, better to cover Kerbin with a bunch of low-orbit stuff with omnis. Geostat orbit for Kerbin was just out of range of the big omnis last time I used RT, anyway ( and your craft need something the same range too don't forget, unless you're using the alternate RT antenna mode ).

( I suspect it's kerbinstationary, btw ( kerbostationary? ), until we learn the Kerbal equivalent of latin )

Edited October 14, 2015 by Van Disaster

[thatguywiththejk]

It seems to work now. I repointed the DTS-M1's towards the Active Vessel and everything connected. Weird bug?

This is how it looks currently:

http://imgur.com/ngNHGnS

Edited October 14, 2015 by thatguywiththejk

[G'th]

What I've been doing for my mission to Duna, though its probably not the most efficient in terms of active flight numbers, is to have the basic 3-sat constellation going in geosynchronous, with omni-antennas for anything in the Kerbin System. (I actually modded myself in a modded Omni that was basically twice the weight and twice the power draw of the most powerful one currently, so that I could have it reach the outskirts of the Kerbin system)

Then, I create polar satellites in very, very high orbits that I use to connect to anything outside of the Omni's range. Essentially by doing that it allows me to have a sattelite that's always connected to one of the geosync'd sats but also allows almost constant connection with anything anywhere in the rest of the solar system. So with what I'm doing in the Duna system, the only time I lose connection is either when Kerbin or Duna blocks the connection (which typically isn't an issue as I have a sat constellation going on Duna as well as a backup sat in Kerbin orbit that's nearly always on the opposite side of my main polar sat) or when the sun does, which I haven't actually run into yet.

Something I've noticed is that the only reliable way to keep a connection is to keep direct connections going, with dishes on both my target and my Kerbin sats pointed at each other. With Omni's, even in the Kerbin system, sometimes I find the connection drops or I just plain get one even though I should be.

[Stone Blue]

It seems to work now. I repointed the DTS-M1's towards the Active Vessel and everything connected. Weird bug?

This is how it looks currently:

http://imgur.com/ngNHGnS

Looks good....

But now test it by sending a craft into a higher orbit, like 1500km or higher and see what happens...

[Friend Bear]

So what I do to make connectivity to other satellites is very similar to yours. Don't think of this as me telling you what to do. I just don't understand what problem you are facing exactly so I will tell you how I setup my system.

I have my 4+ satellites in whatever horizontal orbit. Their long-range antenna deal with things in close orbit (in fact, I have about 6 sats and have them connect to each other via antenna vs dish as you seem to have done). Each has at least 2 dishes. Here is why:

I then put a satellite or two in a much bigger, polar orbit. Those satellites can have up to 8 dishes...Two broad, wide range like you have on these sats, and the rest long range Duna+. I point the broad range at the planet so it encompasses every smaller orbit satellite that will connect to it and point one of those 2 dishes on my first set (the ones you have pictured above) at this larger orbiting sat. That long range sat is what I use to reach kerbol orbit and other planet orbit instruments.

Broken down, my first sats, those you have, use their antennas to connect to each other, to the base, and to launching craft. Those same sats use their 2 dishes to connect to the larger polar orbit sats. Those polar orbit sats (you really only need 2 with that many dishes on each) connect to everything outside of antenna reach.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Friend Bear

[Alshain]

So what I do to make connectivity to other satellites is very similar to yours. Don't think of this as me telling you what to do. I just don't understand what problem you are facing exactly so I will tell you how I setup my system.

I have my 4+ satellites in whatever horizontal orbit. Their long-range antenna deal with things in close orbit (in fact, I have about 6 sats and have them connect to each other via antenna vs dish as you seem to have done). Each has at least 2 dishes. Here is why:

I then put a satellite or two in a much bigger, polar orbit. Those satellites can have up to 8 dishes...Two broad range like you have on these sats, and the rest long range Duna+. I point the broad range at the planet and point one of those 2 dishes on my first set (the ones you have pictured above) at this larger orbiting sat. That long range sat is what I use to reach kerbol orbit and other planet orbit instruments.

Broken down, my first sats, those you have, use their antennas to connect to each other, to the base, and to launching craft. Those same sats use their 2 dishes to connect to the larger polar orbit sats. Those polar orbit sats (you really only need 2 with that many dishes on each) connect to everything outside of antenna reach.

It can be much simpler than that with a 4 sat network in synchronous orbit (4 sats instead of 3 due to the limited range of the Communotron 32). 3 satellites with nothing but Communotron32's to relay information and cover LKO, a single big satellite with a dish for each planet, the mun, and Minmus, and a Communotron32 is placed directly opposite the planet from KSC (note: this can be several satellites parked next to each other if you wish, it just clutters the tracking station more). Finally, a rover with a dish for each planet (no need for Mun and Minmus, tracking station covers that) parked out next to the tracking station.

Since it is a synchronous orbit, all planets will either be able to see the satellite behind the planet or the KSC rover. The 3 small satellites merely hop the signal around the planet from that back satellite and also service any craft or station in LKO. (If you don't care about LKO, you can drop one of those 3, because you only need to hop one way, but it leaves a gap in coverage on one side of the planet). For early career (i.e. starting after you get the 32) using this method you only have to replace the rover and the one satellite to extend your range as you unlock new dishes, and the rover gets a free refund.

This is why it so confounding to me that RoverDude and Squad thinks this is so hard to do. It couldn't be simpler, and yet the stock game is going to have a pointless inferior system because of this misconception.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Alshain

[Friend Bear]

It can be much simpler than that with a 4 sat network in synchronous orbit. 3 satellites with nothing but Communotron32's to relay information and cover LKO, a single big satellite with a dish for each planet, the mun, and Minmus, and a Communotron32 is placed directly opposite the planet from KSC. Finally, a rover with a dish for each planet (no need for Mun and Minmus, tracking station covers that) parked out next to the tracking station.

Since it is a synchronous orbit, all planets will either be able to see the satellite behind the planet or the KSC rover. The 3 small satellites merely hop the signal around the planet from that back satellite and also service any craft or station in LKO.

I agree. My only problem is I make my sats in oblong orbits in a star formation represented by the amount of sats that are up there (ie - if I have 5 sats, it will be oblong in the shape of a star, etc.)

I do this, requiring more satellites for 100% connectivity via antenna to all sats, because whenever I do the circular orbit he has done above, half a year will pass and they all end up on top of each other. It's because I fine tune orbits manually and don't use mods that can give a much more perfect orbit.

Not a big deal for me because I launch 4-8 sats in one rocket, find the outermost circular orbit, release one at a time and oblongify (love making up words) each individual orbit. I wouldn't do it if I had to launch each one individually.

[Van Disaster]

Unless performance improved radically in recent RT versions the object should really be to minimize links - my last minimalist Kerbin network had the stationary bouncer sat and I think four polar orbit sats at low level, just because I wanted full coverage - you can get quite good coverage with 3, although I'm pretty sure you'll have holes still. Every now and then you'll have to go and fix their orbits, but that's part of RT ( and one reason I gave it up ).

Once you have networks on a few planets and a lot of links the game starts groaning, minimising those is a necessity.

[Alshain]

I agree. My only problem is I make my sats in oblong orbits in a star formation represented by the amount of sats that are up there (ie - if I have 5 sats, it will be oblong in the shape of a star, etc.)

I do this, requiring more satellites for 100% connectivity via antenna to all sats, because whenever I do the circular orbit he has done above, half a year will pass and they all end up on top of each other. It's because I fine tune orbits manually and don't use mods that can give a much more perfect orbit.

Not a big deal for me because I launch 4-8 sats in one rocket, find the outermost circular orbit, release one at a time and oblongify (love making up words) each individual orbit. I wouldn't do it if I had to launch each one individually.

Hmm, I fine tune mine manually as well, but it takes decades to fall out of place even a little. If you build it right, it's pretty easy to get a perfect orbit, but you have to not overbuild the engine (the weaker the engine the better in this case) and make use of the thrust limiter to make it even weaker. Too strong an engine and you won't be able to get it fined tuned without overshooting. This can, however, be difficult over Minmus because of floating point errors on such a small body even with a small enough engine. My 3 relay sats have an ant engine and a few oscarB tanks, plus appropriate battery and power gen. My bigger sat with all the dishes uses a Terrier.

The one labeled "inter-network link" was from an earlier 3-sat network design, those are Mun and Minmus now.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Alshain

[Friend Bear]

Hmm, I fine tune mine manually as well, but it takes decades to fall out of place even a little. If you build it right, it's pretty easy to get a perfect orbit, but you have to not overbuild the engine (the weaker the engine the better in this case) and make use of the thrust limiter to make it even weaker. Too strong an engine and you won't be able to get it fined tuned without overshooting. This can, however, be difficult over Minmus because of floating point errors on such a small body even with a small enough engine. My 3 relay sats have an ant engine and a few oscarB tanks, plus appropriate battery and power gen. My bigger sat with all the dishes uses a Terrier.

The one labeled "inter-network link" was from an earlier 3-sat network design, those are Mun and Minmus now.http://i.imgur.com/vqFmcMg.jpg

I like it. My only worry is that you may need more solar panels? Those dishes drain like crazy.

[Stone Blue]

Hmm, I fine tune mine manually as well, but it takes decades to fall out of place even a little. If you build it right, it's pretty easy to get a perfect orbit, but you have to not overbuild the engine (the weaker the engine the better in this case) and make use of the thrust limiter to make it even weaker. Too strong an engine and you won't be able to get it fined tuned without overshooting. This can, however, be difficult over Minmus because of floating point errors on such a small body even with a small enough engine. My 3 relay sats have an ant engine and a few oscarB tanks, plus appropriate battery and power gen. My bigger sat with all the dishes uses a Terrier.

The one labeled "inter-network link" was from an earlier 3-sat network design, those are Mun and Minmus now.http://i.imgur.com/vqFmcMg.jpg

I do mine manually as well. But I have gotten to where I dont even place engines, (after using the Ants), on my sats anymore...I can make all the orbit adjustments I need, just using RCS. Makes them smaller with less parts, less mass..

[Cairol]

What I did for Kerbin:

4x aequatorial keosynchronous satellites with Com32 antenna and 4x DTS-M1 antennas each to cover a big part of Kerbin SOI and reach Mun and Minmus.

The DTS antennas on each sat are pointed at active vessel, KSC, Mun and Minmus.

3x large polar satellites in higher orbit with multiple dishes for reaching all planets with long range connections. (I did the full equipment to not have to have dozens of different sats in obit)

Other planets have similar setups. Only difference is, that those other planets do only have a single medium/long range antenna on each polar orbit satellite

to connect to the Kerbin network and an omni antenna to connect to the aequatorial satellites and get full coverage.

Sometimes I omit the DTS-M1s for the aequatorial sats if the moon(s) are close enough. Like for Duna and Ike.

Usually 3 satellites are enough for aequatorial coverage. Especially when not setup in synchronous orbit and not too high of an orbit.

You should always try to cover the whole SOI of a planet with omni antennas.

For transfers, the "Actrive vessel" option of the sats should be ok, if the ships dish is powerful enough and pointed at KSC.

One of the polar satellites will pick up the connection as long as not obstructed by another celestial body. (which should be rare with long-range satellites in high polar orbits)

As for fine-tuning: Either use the RCS precision mode or use a tiny engine or ion engine (maybe with thrust limited to 5% or so) to get super-precise placement.

Only problem with this: The farther you go outside of Kerbin SOI, the more the orbital period will jitter. If you take readouts from KER for example,

if you are at Duna or farther away than that, you can't tune it as precise, because the numbers begin to fluctuate badly while your satellite is not accelerating nor turning at all.

Because of that, I personally do not hesitate to synchronize the orbital period of my sats by save-file editing my satellites...

[Alshain]

I do mine manually as well. But I have gotten to where I dont even place engines, (after using the Ants), on my sats anymore...I can make all the orbit adjustments I need, just using RCS. Makes them smaller with less parts, less mass..

I tried RCS, but Ants are easier. Even the single port RCS has too much thrust. Technically they have the same thust (2.0 VAC) but only the Ants have throttle control and thrust limiter. If you really want a set it and forget it network without other mods, you want an ant, at the minimum throttle, with thrust limited to 5.5. Seems like next to nothing, but when you are talking about a handfull of OscarB's and batteries, it doesn't take a lot.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Alshain

[Stone Blue]

I tried RCS, but Ants are easier. Even the single port RCS has too much thrust. Technically they have the same thust (2.0 VAC) but only the Ants have throttle control and thrust limiter. If you really want a set it and forget it network without other mods, you want an ant, at the minimum throttle, with thrust limited to 5.5. Seems like next to nothing, but when you are talking about a handfull of OscarB's and batteries, it doesn't take a lot.

Hmmm... OK...This may have convinced me to re-try ants on future sats....

I guess my main point though, was, I guess I dont understand how people are not able to get stable orbits, to where their network functionaility is so badly affected after just a few months (Kerbin), or even a couple years....Using either RCS or ants, I have been able to get orbits with Ecc less than 10km, and periods +/- just .5 secs or less...

Although I DO admit, I run heavily modded, and I use MJ SAS for sat orientation, and I have also just started using the Persistant Rotation mod.

[Lynch]

Are you checking the batteries, power input output or the range of the antennas?

[FancyMouse]

Using either RCS or ants, I have been able to get orbits with Ecc less than 10km, and periods +/- just .5 secs or less...

For period, using 5%-limited Ant give me a network on 2.5Mm semi-major axis with error +- 0.4m. This means ~0.07s error out of ~3.5h period. And that's all by hand except for KER for info display to get to this precision. I feel safe for like 30 years.

[hendrack]

Imho molniya orbits are so much easier to set up then synchronous orbits. Once they are up, you never have to touch them ever again.

This was my first career setup, KEO, had to hyperedit them into KEO every time a new long term mission started:

Then I made a molniya setup, never touched 'em again:

Three Comm32-only satellties made early in career, then 3 additional medium range dishes. Works like a charm, although it looks quite random and messy.