Will StratoLaunch Fly?

[Wjolcz]

A MAKS-like shuttle being carried and launched by that plane would be pretty neat.

[ment18]

They should be able to do something like skylon, a huge horizontal landing spaceplane running on hydrolox.  Use vacuum expanded engine like ssme, and no airbreathing.  Something like 20t dry, 10t payload, 220t prop.  Mid air topping up of props would be fun.

Edited August 21, 2018 by ment18

[wumpus]

2 hours ago, ment18 said:

They should be able to do something like skylon, a huge horizontal landing spaceplane running on hydrolox.  Use vacuum expanded engine like ssme, and no airbreathing.  Something like 20t dry, 10t payload, 220t prop.  Mid air topping up of props would be fun.

Hate to tell you but Dream Chaser is 9tons with 5 tons of cargo.  It doesn't appear to have significant delta-v, and would be lifted by an Atlas V.  While your numbers fit the rocket equation, I don't think you can land the craft that can wrap itself around that fuel with only that mass.

[ment18]

1 hour ago, wumpus said:

Hate to tell you but Dream Chaser is 9tons with 5 tons of cargo.  It doesn't appear to have significant delta-v, and would be lifted by an Atlas V.  While your numbers fit the rocket equation, I don't think you can land the craft that can wrap itself around that fuel with only that mass.

Dream chaser is designed to carry crew eventually, which makes the vehicle much heavier than a giant fuel tank.  It has windows, is designed for a really light reentry (1.5gs).  Ex STS was like 100t for 20t cargo.  It would be really close to the performance targets of the venture star.  Also those numbers give about 9400m/s dv, while pegasus only has about 8800, so you can add like another 5t to drymass.

Edited August 22, 2018 by ment18

[Racescort666]

On 8/21/2018 at 1:42 PM, wumpus said:

Note that the Minotaur 1 used a modified Pegasus (Orion 38) rocket to put a 1.7 ton load into LEO (I think.  That might be with the upgraded Star engine.  Wiki isn't explicit or its usual infallible self).  Even so, strapping additional stages to a pegasus in an effort to launch .5tons to GTO instead of LEO is likely a useful thing for a Pegasus (and launch into GTO makes much more sense for air-launch).  Note that I doubt that anyone would be too worried moving an engine/nozzle designed for 40,000 feet and above to vacuum only flight (if not just grab the nozzle from minotaur I or IV).

This information is almost impossible to find from the NG website but fortunately the wayback machine has got my back: https://web.archive.org/web/20171107014333/https://www.orbitalatk.com/flight-systems/propulsion-systems/docs/2016 OA Motor Catalog.pdf

Quote

The Orion family of motors began with three stages originally designed for use in a joint venture with Orbital Sciences Corp. for the Pegasus® launch vehicle. Modifications to the original three Orion motors, first for extended length (XL) versions and subsequently for skirt, nozzle, and other smaller differences, have accommodated additional applications and enhanced performance capabilities. Vehicle applications successfully flown using Orion motors include Pegasus®, Taurus®, Pegasus® XL, Minotaur®, Hyper-X, Taurus Lite and Taurus® XL launch vehicles, and the Ground-based Midcourse Defense (GMD) ground-based interceptor (GBI). New applications continue to evolve, such as target vehicle configurations for Missile Defense Agency (MDA).

I don't believe the STAR and Orion motors have much in common.

[tater]

 

[NSEP]

 

[insert_name]

More details about MLV's engine, it's a hydrolox staged combustion engine with "the highest specific impulse"

https://spacenews.com/stratolaunch-releases-new-details-about-rocket-engine-work/

[wumpus]

1 hour ago, insert_name said:

More details about MLV's engine, it's a hydrolox staged combustion engine with "the highest specific impulse"

https://spacenews.com/stratolaunch-releases-new-details-about-rocket-engine-work/

Hydrolox on stratolaunch?  Is stratolaunch capable of carrying LH2 and topping it off before launch?  How much insulation would the rocket need to not lose excessive fuel before launch?  There are a lot of reasons that Pegasus uses solids, and I'm curious if Stratolaunch can work around them.

Is stratolaunch developing a rocket engine on their own?  Did they just buy up a failing rocket engine compay (or possibly just the aerojet team that was beat by Blue Origin?).  Paul Allen's history as a patent troll makes the idea of his company designing an engine scary: way too much stuff that is difficult to prove that it wasn't "published" or patented in a court of law that he can easily patent.

[insert_name]

5 minutes ago, wumpus said:

Hydrolox on stratolaunch?  Is stratolaunch capable of carrying LH2 and topping it off before launch?  How much insulation would the rocket need to not lose excessive fuel before launch?  There are a lot of reasons that Pegasus uses solids, and I'm curious if Stratolaunch can work around them.

Is stratolaunch developing a rocket engine on their own?  Did they just buy up a failing rocket engine compay (or possibly just the aerojet team that was beat by Blue Origin?).  Paul Allen's history as a patent troll makes the idea of his company designing an engine scary: way too much stuff that is difficult to prove that it wasn't "published" or patented in a court of law that he can easily patent.

Who in the US builds hydrolox engines that doesn't have immense political power?  The Alabama congressmen will go to extreme lengths to protect areojet, and Bezos could easily convince a couple of politicians to go to bat for him.

[tater]

Given the thread title... the answer is much more likely "no" as of today.

RIP.

 

[insert_name]

preburner tests have begun

https://spacenews.com/stratolaunch-tests-key-engine-component/

[MaverickSawyer]

110 kts (136 mph) taxi run, and initial rotation achieved!

 

https://www.geekwire.com/2019/stratolaunch-gets-worlds-biggest-airplane-ready-takeoff-136-mph-taxi-test/

[DDE]

On 10/15/2016 at 6:06 AM, Northstar1989 said:

That being said, the R&D costs would be astronomical.

Unless you amortize them with a certain crowd that likes fast jets.

Spoiler

 

One that REALLY likes fast jets...

 

 

Edited January 10, 2019 by DDE

[tater]

This is no bueno.

[DDE]

5 hours ago, tater said:

This is no bueno.

Extremely. This shows there’s little to no continuity in leadership, that it was one guy’s pet project.

[tater]

On 1/19/2019 at 12:43 AM, DDE said:

Extremely. This shows there’s little to no continuity in leadership, that it was one guy’s pet project.

Yeah, looks like the 20 remaining employees will fly the plane once, then that's it. Maybe Grumman buys the plane. Who knows.

[Nightside]

Or they could send Allen off in a coffin/rocket- either demonstrate a successful launch or have the best ever Viking funeral.

[tater]

 

[ThatGuyWithALongUsername]

Yes.

 

The answer is yes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

(Whether or not it will LAUNCH is, well, still up for grabs.)

[Canopus]

Is this the new Spruce Goose? 

[wumpus]

6 hours ago, Canopus said:

Is this the new Spruce Goose? 

There are a completely unsustainable number of smallsat launching startups.  Once most of them go into bankruptcy, expect a second wave of attempts to break into the market with engines bought for far less than the cost of the R&D needed to design them (possibly outcompeting even those who survived the first wave: I'd bet that Rocket Labs makes it through the first wave).

I could see a spin off from Orbital trying to go back to their roots of buying cheap rocket parts and strapping them together (or maybe a side venture by Northrop itself).  That sort of thing is the only way I see Stratolaunch flying (well launching): there just isn't any path to orbit without the continual funding that Paul Allen provided.

[MaverickSawyer]

I suspect that Stratolaunch is going to aim for the "rapid reaction/replacement" market, especially for the DoD.

[wumpus]

On 4/14/2019 at 12:51 PM, MaverickSawyer said:

I suspect that Stratolaunch is going to aim for the "rapid reaction/replacement" market, especially for the DoD.

While the DoD might be willing to invest in a "rapid reaction/replacement" rocket, I'm less sure about doing so with a limit of ~6 tons to LEO (maybe more if they can use hydrolox on at least one stage, but I really have to wonder if that thing is plumbed for 3 propellant types (perhaps hydrolox + solid boosters would be sufficiently efficient for a ".5 stage").

[MaverickSawyer]

22 hours ago, wumpus said:

While the DoD might be willing to invest in a "rapid reaction/replacement" rocket, I'm less sure about doing so with a limit of ~6 tons to LEO (maybe more if they can use hydrolox on at least one stage, but I really have to wonder if that thing is plumbed for 3 propellant types (perhaps hydrolox + solid boosters would be sufficiently efficient for a ".5 stage").

The capabilities of smaller satellites is actually getting pretty good. Not quite to Keyhole grade yet, but certainly enough to monitor a battlefield for patterns and large-scale movements.