Pilots: uses for them past early career?

[passinglurker]

No auto pilot, please.

Can we all agree that Pilots should be able to predict the landing site and check CoM, CoL and CoT in-flight?

nope auto pilot auto pilot auto pilot! If you don't like it you can fly a probe and be rewarded with less mass it's a fair trade there are no better ways to do this that were mentioned and generally accepted earlier in the thread such as giving experienced kerbals the same perks as buildings to save you infrastructure costs nope thead amnesia isn't a thing nope nope nope.

I'm joking around of course still I find it odd that once everyone agrees on an idea in one of these suggestion threads instead of advocating for it or seeking a competent modder to make a proof of concept it is immediately dropped from conversation and they resume the same spin of comparatively dead end ideas and overkill system overhauls that had dominated conversation before the suggestion of the generally accepted idea.

[NWM]

There are people who are vigorously opposed to autopilot and either way it isn't a viable solution for them cause they fly by hand so they are still stuck with the useless pilot conundrum whether they like it or not

Seriously lvl1 get maneuver node planing, lvl2 get patched conics on the ship the pilot flys before upgrading buildings. This is the best if not only viable option all others turn pilots into mech jeb(has a vigorous opposing faction), magic isp generators(like mechjeb this also has a vigorous opposing faction), or arbitrary roadblocks to annoyingly force you to use them and is usually poor game design(I am vigorously opposed...).

Only other solution I've seen in this thread that wasn't honestly terrible is using pilots as a general buff generator for the other classes making engineers yield more isru efficiency and scientists yield more science but being unable to do the jobs themselves.

I mean only 4-5 star pilot would have these abilities. It is a hard work to train them to this level, and in an economy simulation demanding continuous income from ferrying, mining... wast amount of these aces would be needed, and there will be always perpetual demand of teaching the greens...

Engineers:

-repairing the solar panels?

[passinglurker]

I mean only 4-5 star pilot would have these abilities. It is a hard work to train them to this level, and in an economy simulation demanding continuous income from ferrying, mining... wast amount of these aces would be needed, and there will be always perpetual demand of teaching the greens...

Engineers:

-repairing the solar panels?

Good luck but no matter the case or restrictions you can't escape that there are "flyboy" users who make as if they will throw an absolute tantrum if other people get so much as an optional automatic throttle (never mind that modern programs actually use auto pilot...)

plus lvl4-5 creates what is essentially a dead zone from unlocking probes till you land on duna or something I forget how far you have to go to lvl up kerbals that high

building feats for kerbals allows you to make a niche for pilots and carry it as long as you wish you get a choice in the matter that is important more importantly it's a choice that affects the progress of your whole program adding depth to career.

Engineers: This thread is about pilots but the same logic about giving facility ability's to experienced kerbals can apply to them too.

[Windspren]

What if after you get a kerbal to level 5, you can choose for him/her to gain a second class? So you could upgrade your pilots and have them learn engineering or science, making them useful again. And maybe pilots could autopilot maneuver nodes, with accuracy dependent on their level.

[Waxing_Kibbous]

I've been thinking that the Big Four, Jeb, Val, Bill, and Bob could all get extra skills that other Kerbals don't. For instance, it makes sense that a pilot could repack a chute and change a tire, so those could be nice additions at high levels. Bill and Bob could have higher rates of their processing skills.

A bit OT, but the idea of a kerbal improving rocket performance could work IMO if the requirements were to have a pilot, engineer, and scientist all at a certain level and included in the crew at the same time, their amazing skills pushing every bit of efficiency out of the gear.

[Pthigrivi]

Yeah the real thing about autopilot is that it takes the player out of the game. Clicking 'land' and then folding my arms up and watching the screen doesn't sound fun to me. If things are to be automated they aught to be really basic so the player is still engaged with whats going on. More than that they can provide important information you cant get anywhere else. If for instance Pilots gave predicted landing sites with a T-minus on mouse-over and engineers gave remaining delta-V and burn time you could really tighten up your suicide burns checking as you go.

Ive always advocated for the ability to cross-train kerbals. I had a post about it here.

Edited November 7, 2015 by Pthigrivi

[More Boosters]

http://pulpaudio.com/ksp/classgraph.jpg

(I need to add this so the forum knows I'm not just spamming a pic)

You can still sell the science you get.

-snip-

I felt the need to mention that you can always pay up a .625 node and 5.200 roots and get the avionics gizmo for all the benefits of a Level 5 pilot. Or you can use one of those higher end probe cores on top of your pod too.

---

My suggestion is to repurpose Pilots as Commanders. I always saw the pilot role as more of a team leader role with the most daring and adventurous Kerbals taking the job. They train the nuggets and inspire even the most experienced colleagues. They could have the following effects I guess (on top of what they already get). (cumulative)

Level 0: The entire crew gets 50% more XP. This effect doesn't stack across multiple commanders and the one with the higher level is picked instead.

Level 1: The entire crew gets 50% more XP. (so 200%) The entire crew gets 50% more EVA fuel.

Level 2: The commander wears a bulkier EVA suit with even more fuel, stronger thrusters and stronger lights. This suit has a communotron 18 (or whatever that first one is) installed, which can transfer EVA reports right away from the field. The suit also has limited electric charge that needs to be replenished (automatically or via refueling if Squad changes it so) at the vehicle.

Level 3: The entire crew gets 100% more XP. (so 300%)

Level 4: The entire crew becomes 50% better at their tasks. Scientists process data more quickly and engineers make ISRU go even faster.

Level 5: The entire crew gets 50% more EVA fuel. The entire crew gets 100% more EXP. (so 400%)

Edited November 7, 2015 by More Boosters

[nikokespprfan]

Hey guys, I found back this thread: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/138398-Auto-trajectory-and-purpose-for-pilots.

Combine this idea with the building-upgrade sneek peeks idea, and I think we would have solved the issue.

[passinglurker]

Hey guys, I found back this thread: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/138398-Auto-trajectory-and-purpose-for-pilots.

Combine this idea with the building-upgrade sneek peeks idea, and I think we would have solved the issue.

Would be nice the building sneak peek idea was more for keeping relevance for pilots early and mid game but it admittedly didn't have an endgame strategy this certainly plugs that hole

[Snark]

Okay, so I see something they did in 1.0.5 that is an interesting take on the problem: require pilot presence for station contracts.

Just now got this contract. It's early in my new 1.0.5 career, haven't been to Minmus yet, have landed (unmanned) and flown by (manned) the Mun. It's for a metric crapload of cash: nearly 1 million all told, which is a lot of money for early career (that's a science facility upgrade, right there!) This is the sort of contract that used to be easy-peasy fire-and-forget: make a station with space for kerbals, but launch it unmanned and toss it away when done.

All they did was slip in that little "have three pilots on the station." Now I've got a reason to keep them around, they're worth cold hard cash. Plus, the requirement to have kerbals on the station is a good idea anyway, the launch-an-unmanned-station-and-throw-it-away thing always felt a bit like an exploit. Now I have to actually have a way to get them home again.

I'll admit that this isn't an ideal solution, since it's not really using their pilot skills. But at least it gives them something to do while Bill is off mining fuel and Bob's gathering science.

[interface]

Simply make less information available real time, probes send back information that is acted upon with a time delay both ways. If you don't have a pilot every maneuver must be plotted with delay, and all updates on ship flight information are delayed the distance to KSC or nearest maned science lab WITH an Engineer AND A pilot as well as the lab manned by scientists.

So you're flying your ship, it only has a scientist, so while you are focused on that ship you are that scientist, you plot a maneuver and the game puts a delay on it equal to the radio travel to KSC because it was the scientist and KSC working together. If a pilot is present you play as that pilot and have full control real time, if one is not present the scientist or engineer is dependent on ground control.

The 'pilot' is mostly computer scientist and mathematician, operating onboard computers to run the flight real time on site and make decisions without ground control. Annoying enough to make the pilot valuable, realistic enough to not be seen as just an annoyance but as simply the reality of space flight.

[Snark]

Simply make less information available real time, probes send back information that is acted upon with a time delay both ways. If you don't have a pilot every maneuver must be plotted with delay, and all updates on ship flight information are delayed the distance to KSC or nearest maned science lab WITH an Engineer AND A pilot as well as the lab manned by scientists.

Yes, that's pretty much what RemoteTech does (although it only applies lightspeed delay for unmanned vessels). It's not a bad idea, but seeing it implemented in RemoteTech shows the issues that it raises. Basically, if you add lightspeed delay, you pretty much have to have automation / autopilot available (i.e. be able to tell a craft "wait until such-and-such time and then take such-and-such action"). RemoteTech does that, and does it well, but it's an added layer of complexity that I think would be too much for the stock game. It's great as a mod, but it doesn't feel to me like it belongs in stock.

[cantab]

A better, or at least different, EVA suit is a nice idea.

[Waxing_Kibbous]

I've decided on the simple approach- use probe cores for satellites only as my own rule for playing (plus AntennaRange)- this is a sandbox game after all . One thing that makes it a lot nicer is that I found a command pod mod that holds 2 Kerbals, so a pilot + 1 is actually quite doable and adds the fun of picking a pilot for my science missions. http://kerbal.curseforge.com/projects/k2-command-pod

[Wjolcz]

Oh, I came up with something new, guys!

Think about this: A vessel with a pilot onboard doesn't despawn after hitting the 22km limit in atmosphere! Pegasus and MAKS type of missions! Woooo!

[nikokespprfan]

Oh, I came up with something new, guys!

Think about this: A vessel with a pilot onboard doesn't despawn after hitting the 22km limit in atmosphere! Pegasus and MAKS type of missions! Woooo!

...cause a pilot can handle the craft on his own. That is a great idea!

It would also be handy for a pilot to learn how to keep a craft pointed at the horizon, or straight up, for these kind of missions. Maybe something for 4*-pilots?

[tater]

Pilots should be able to do anything tasked on their own (i.e.: execute in-place maneuver nodes).