[PART, 1.0.2] Anatid Robotics / MuMech - MechJeb - Autopilot - Historical thread

[Galane]

He's being sarcastic because Galane answered a question not asked. Jean was having (presumably) a problem with MJ's terminal velocity limiter still running even though it wasn't selected to be active. MJ's radio buttons are designed correctly, Galane's post is a bunch of rambling jibberish about a problem that doesn't exist. The problem is that occasionally MJ will still activate certain modules even when you have them deselected. There is no "momentary" switch in MJ. The module is on if there's a white dot inside the radio button and the module turns green if it's actively doing something. It's that simple. There is no "convention fail" there is no UI issue. The issue is that for some reason MJ doesn't always deactivate a module when you select it to be inactive.

The design thing is with KSP in general. I've used computers for 30 years. There are accepted design elements for how buttons of various types should look and function. For groups of "radio buttons" it's supposed to be that only one at a time in a group may be selected, and that each group should be visibly delineated. When you have a group of options where any or all may be selected, they should be checkboxes.

For all the other buttons that are in the KSP game itself - not in any mods - their use is inconsistent in the way they indicate if what they control is enabled or disabled.

I do know what I am talking about when it comes to user interface design, especially having dealt with so many that break from long accepted standard design conventions. Usually it's because it "looks cool" or because whomever designed it either hasn't bothered to learn about accepted practice or figures they'll just do it however they like. If you want people to easily grasp the use of your interface, it's important to stick with the visual elements used by most software - no matter how different you make the colors and graphics.

[Araym]

I'va noticed a major difference, from "old" MechJeb releases (... i think still present in v. 1.9.8) to newest one (from v. 2.0.** up to actual V. 2.1):

programming a launch with the "Ascent autopilot", in older relases was possible to let Mechjeb doing the guidance, but throttle manually (by using the normal, KSP's, command with [sHIFT] and [CTRL] keys) the engines.

Actually, Mechjeb allows, automatically, to lower the throttle if a rocket goes at terminal velocity, or, using some advanced option in some of its menues, put a "percentage" of throttle manually, but not dinamically from the normal throttle control allowed by the game itself.

I don't know if the "newest" versione code does not allow such a fuction, but that "Allow manual throttle" back should be a nice forgotten last touch.

... it's not a rant... but an old solution for those liking some "personalized features" without using so much menues on the screen...

(Some big rockets will love the eventuality to shake a little less, if, after intial boost, not all the power is needed for the full flight )

[Galane]

There's a Smooth Throttle option which will slow down the rapid throttle changes, but it doesn't help with the instant full throttle at launch. It may help keep rockets together that crumple during staging when MechJeb slams the throttle full open so quickly.

[Starwaster]

There's a Smooth Throttle option which will slow down the rapid throttle changes, but it doesn't help with the instant full throttle at launch. It may help keep rockets together that crumple during staging when MechJeb slams the throttle full open so quickly.

What I do about that is I stage the engines before engaging the autopilot. When it engages it brings them up slowly and then I release the clamps. (or, with Ferram's latest mod I've been letting them sit on the pad clampless more and more)

[CatastrophicFailure]

Pardon my ignorance here, is there a post in this HUGE thread or elsewhere that gives a breakdown of WHERE in the tech tree the various MechJeb functions are unlocked? My wife really needs the maneuver node planner to bring Jeb back from the middle of freakin' nowhere.

[Sephlington]

Pardon my ignorance here, is there a post in this HUGE thread or elsewhere that gives a breakdown of WHERE in the tech tree the various MechJeb functions are unlocked? My wife really needs the maneuver node planner to bring Jeb back from the middle of freakin' nowhere.

Taken directly from the part.cfg:

MODULE

{

name = MechJebCore

MechJebLocalSettings {

MechJebModuleCustomWindowEditor { unlockTechs = flightControl }

MechJebModuleSmartASS { unlockTechs = flightControl }

MechJebModuleManeuverPlanner { unlockTechs = advFlightControl }

MechJebModuleNodeEditor { unlockTechs = advFlightControl }

MechJebModuleTranslatron { unlockTechs = advFlightControl }

MechJebModuleWarpHelper { unlockTechs = advFlightControl }

MechJebModuleAttitudeAdjustment { unlockTechs = advFlightControl }

MechJebModuleThrustWindow { unlockTechs = advFlightControl }

MechJebModuleRCSBalancerWindow { unlockTechs = advFlightControl }

MechJebModuleRoverWindow { unlockTechs = fieldScience }

MechJebModuleAscentGuidance { unlockTechs = unmannedTech }

MechJebModuleLandingGuidance { unlockTechs = unmannedTech }

MechJebModuleSpaceplaneGuidance { unlockTechs = unmannedTech }

MechJebModuleDockingGuidance { unlockTechs = advUnmanned }

MechJebModuleRendezvousAutopilotWindow { unlockTechs = advUnmanned }

MechJebModuleRendezvousGuidance { unlockTechs = advUnmanned }

}

}

[Jasmir]

Hi there,

i would like to suggest to add a possibility into the "translatron" to limit the angle that a ship can take away from "upwards". It would be nice if it can be implemented like the "force roll" thing: A checkbox for activation, and a field to enter the value. Maybe prefilled with a suitable preset (20°).

Without it, mechjeb crashs nearly all slow-turning vessels that has some horizontal velocity and are near the ground. (Depending how slow turning the vessel is, "near" can be very relative)

[jtaylor996]

Ugh. The spaceplane autopilot is pretty terrible. Anybody else find it completely useless to use to land on the island runway?

When you land a plane, you control descent with the throttle, and the speed with the pitch of the plane. Mechjeb appoarently doesn't know that is and is chasing the altitude with the pitch, and seem to use no control over the throttle at all.

Also, it needs to be getting it's altitude from the mean aerodynamic chord of the wing (center of lift), not from where the pod is located. This is required to get the control inputs smoothed out (so it's not oscillating all over the place in pitch, or if corrected, in throttle to get the correct altitude).

It would be useful if it could calculate an offset to the wheels as well (which depends on the angle of attack). This would prevent the problem of mechjeb crashing you in to the end of the runways.

Who's on these fixes

@sarbian: Any responses to these ideas?

[NotCoach]

I really don't see the point of putting MechJeb in the tech tree. I personally would quit playing this fun and challenging game (building and planning my growth through science are the fun for me) due to my horrendous piloting skills if I didn't have access to this wonderful mod. I think there should be a selectable option on the start-up of any new career mode campaign that allows a person to decide whether or not MechJeb is part of the tech tree. Yes, I know anyone can dig through the CFG file and essentially do the same thing, but it would be nice to have a selectable right up front for easier access.

[sarbian]

The idea are sound. Lowering the throttle to land is not rocket science

But writing the code is an other matter. Getting the correct alt from the landing gear is not hard since we have to code for that in the other landing AP. Having MJ slow down enough to land but still being fast enough to not stall is a bit more complex. Not that I don't roughly see how I could do it, but it's not an easy task.

I had some thought on it since I work on something plane related right now, but I did not try to implement it. There are a few things that worked before and are more or less broken now, and that's higher on my list that feature that never really worked (AFAIK).

If you have some reading on landing AP in real life or other game I would welcome them, even some simple theory on landing would be nice

[therealcrow999]

I think having different aspect of technology unlock in Mechjeb is a cool idea. Makes a player feel like they are gaining some advancement in computer technology. You get the feel of what its like to progress through this new thing called Rocket science, just like how NASA had to learn everything from scratch.

I'm actually relearning to fly on my own again, which is really nice. I've been playing this game from first release and all we had in those days was a rocket, will and a compass. I was a lot harder then, we didn't have all the things that is in stock KSP. We didn't even have nodes. I think nodes are really nice addition to stock game.

I use MJ for read outs. I use Ascent Guidence and Smart A.S.S. sometimes. Thats about all I use, I rarely use those anymore.

You can do it!

I really don't see the point of putting MechJeb in the tech tree. I personally would quit playing this fun and challenging game (building and planning my growth through science are the fun for me) due to my horrendous piloting skills if I didn't have access to this wonderful mod. I think there should be a selectable option on the start-up of any new career mode campaign that allows a person to decide whether or not MechJeb is part of the tech tree. Yes, I know anyone can dig through the CFG file and essentially do the same thing, but it would be nice to have a selectable right up front for easier access.

[NotCoach]

You can do it!

Not everyone wants to be in the pilot's seat. I just want to purchase my ticket, and nap until arrival.

[Starwaster]

I really don't see the point of putting MechJeb in the tech tree. I personally would quit playing this fun and challenging game (building and planning my growth through science are the fun for me) due to my horrendous piloting skills if I didn't have access to this wonderful mod. I think there should be a selectable option on the start-up of any new career mode campaign that allows a person to decide whether or not MechJeb is part of the tech tree. Yes, I know anyone can dig through the CFG file and essentially do the same thing, but it would be nice to have a selectable right up front for easier access.

look at Sephlington's post above. Edit the part.cfg file (for the AR202) and remove all references to tech. You should be left with the following.

MODULE
{
     name = MechJebCore
}

If you use ModuleManager together with Sarbian's MM extensions you can make a config file like this that adds MJ to all commandpods

MJ_for_all.cfg

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleCommand],!MODULE[MechJebCore]]
{
	MODULE
	{
		name = MechJebCore
	}
}

Edited November 7, 2013 by Starwaster

[therealcrow999]

Not saying that, when its time to take pilot seat, you can do it.

I'm ending this MechJeb conversation. Bringing up the use of MJ or not, is like bringing up Politics or Religion in the KSP world.

End transmission...

[NotCoach]

look at Sephlington's post above. Edit the part.cfg file (for the AR202) and remove all references to tech. You should be left with the following.

MODULE
{
     name = MechJebCore
}

If you use ModuleManager together with Sarbian's MM extensions you can make a config file like this that adds MJ to all commandpods

MJ_for_all.cfg

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleCommand],!MODULE[MechJebCore]]
{
	MODULE
	{
		name = MechJebCore
	}
}

My post was a suggestion for ease of use for the mod author's to consider, not a question asking how to change MechJeb in career mode. I already play with a fully functional MechJeb from day one in career mode.

[CAPFlyer]

The design thing is with KSP in general. I've used computers for 30 years. There are accepted design elements for how buttons of various types should look and function. For groups of "radio buttons" it's supposed to be that only one at a time in a group may be selected, and that each group should be visibly delineated. When you have a group of options where any or all may be selected, they should be checkboxes.

All well and good, but it did not answer the question asked/issue posed. That is where the issue came in for him. If you want to talk about how the UI design is an issue for you, then post without quoting the guy looking for help seeing if it's a bug or not instead of making a post that not only doesn't answer his question, but goes off on a tangent that really isn't germane to the thread at all. There are more appropriate places to discuss it (like the Dev forum) than inside this thread for this one addon. As it is, as a user of computers for 20 or so years (considering that I've only had 31 possible years to use them) and starting with DOS 3.1 and moving from there, I understand where you're coming from, but I also understand that in the real world, there are pushbuttons that look like radio buttons and operate exactly like MechJeb's buttons do. This is where the issue comes in - do you follow computer design convention or do you follow physical design convention. I think that is up to the dev and is bound more by feel and whether it actually works than by any convention as to whether the users accept it.

[Hunne]

do i have to start a new career in order for all the windows to show up? i just wanted MJ to land for me as I´m positively too stupid to get even the smallest probe to the surface safely

[Starwaster]

All well and good, but it did not answer the question asked/issue posed. That is where the issue came in for him. If you want to talk about how the UI design is an issue for you, then post without quoting the guy looking for help seeing if it's a bug or not instead of making a post that not only doesn't answer his question, but goes off on a tangent that really isn't germane to the thread at all. There are more appropriate places to discuss it (like the Dev forum) than inside this thread for this one addon. As it is, as a user of computers for 20 or so years (considering that I've only had 31 possible years to use them) and starting with DOS 3.1 and moving from there, I understand where you're coming from, but I also understand that in the real world, there are pushbuttons that look like radio buttons and operate exactly like MechJeb's buttons do. This is where the issue comes in - do you follow computer design convention or do you follow physical design convention. I think that is up to the dev and is bound more by feel and whether it actually works than by any convention as to whether the users accept it.

He told him to clear the box that enables / disables the option and that is the correct solution and offered his opinion on why he (jean) might not have realized that the option was there, because for whatever reason the answer was staring him in the face and he wasn't seeing it. what more do you want from Galane?

do i have to start a new career in order for all the windows to show up? i just wanted MJ to land for me as I´m positively too stupid to get even the smallest probe to the surface safely

No you do not. See answers given on this subject a few posts back.

[Hunne]

thx, maybe a note should be added in the download section or in a readme that some functions (well most of them) need to be researched - that would save many posts i guess^^

[M3Man03]

I'm having more and more of an increasing problem with Mechjeb and it's auto-guidance.

It seems that it ALWAYS over corrects - it ends up wobbling back and forth because it's over correcting.

I've proven that it's not my rocket designs by using the SAS which can keep it rock steady.

I often have to intervene to keep it going where it should.

What is the issue? Almost like I need to turn down the gain on it or something.

[Pawelk198604]

I installed the new MechJeb unlocked it in Flight Control tech node, but when i attached MechJeb to my spacecraft it not showing Ascent Guidance on MechJeb 2.1 menu, why?

[M3Man03]

I installed the new MechJeb unlocked it in Flight Control tech node, but when i attached MechJeb to my spacecraft it not showing Ascent Guidance on MechJeb 2.1 menu, why?

With the newest Mechjeb, "features" unlock the further as you go down the tree. You can modify it's part.cfg file to remove that.

[Pawelk198604]

With the newest Mechjeb, "features" unlock the further as you go down the tree. You can modify it's part.cfg file to remove that.

That sucks, but i don't want cheat either. So with tech node unlock ascent guidance, IMHO this is my favorite feature in MechJeb:D

[M3Man03]

The original part.cfg file says "unmannedTech" unlocks ascent guidance.

[Pawelk198604]

The original part.cfg file says "unmannedTech" unlocks ascent guidance.

And where it unnamed tech, where is that node?