Oh No!...Poor Bob! - Leave No Kerbal Behind!...?

[GoSlash27]

Thanks Slashy. Already on it! - That's what I was cooking up whilst absent.

Ah yes, apologies if I threw in numbers that might be unnecessary, that's what the little HUD readout for KER was giving me for the 'mass' entry, I wasn't sure which one was the relevant figure...good to now know it's the latter (learned something new there).

This is what's on it's way to the mun to pick him up (below) and it's still got 1,726 m/s left on it. Everything's pretty much as you said - stripped out/bare bones version of the lander, same delivery package. It's 6hrs out from the mun after a much more efficient launch this time (probably due to the much reduced weight too), and so far on track for a perfect equatorial orbit (already got the encounter and adjusted on the an/dn, only need to circularize it on arrival. Set up for a 33km(ap) 28km(pe) if the burn goes as plotted.)

The only thing I've not done is put Bob into orbit yet - would you advise doing that before the rescue boat arrival? I kinda thought (read: assumed) that it'd be prudent to try and time Bobs launch in an attempt to get a rough close encounter going on, then close it in with the rescue vessel? Or would that be making my life more difficult than it has to be? There's still plenty of time to put him up there, and easy enough on the equator, more or less

Fubarbrickdust,

I would go ahead and orbit him now (make sure he's transferred the science to the pod).

When the rescue ship arrives, you will be able to target him and rendezvous in a single orbit.

1) target him

2) set your closest point of approach to match his orbit

3) retroburn to orbit

4) continue to retroburn while watching his predicted position marker (red arrow pointed up) spin around his orbit.

5) the lower your Ap gets, the slower it will spin. Try to get the marker to line up with your closest point of approach while maintaining a reasonable Ap (still higher than his orbit).

6) if you miss the last encounter, just burn prograde to get it back.

7) orbit once and rendezvous on the next encounter.

Do you know how to rendezvous?

Best,

-Slashy

[Belphegor]

don"t worry, i think this happens to everyone at some point. including me in my fist carreer. eventually when you unlock some more of the tech tree it will be easier to get bob back home but it should be possible with what you got right now

pic from my first carreer game when i sucked at non-atmospheric landings

[Snark]

This is what's on it's way to the mun to pick him up (below) and it's still got 1,726 m/s left on it. Everything's pretty much as you said - stripped out/bare bones version of the lander, same delivery package.

I realize you've already launched, and I expect that what you showed will do the trick. A few questions, though:

- I see you've got some RCS thrusters on there. Given that your rescue boat doesn't have a docking port, is there a reason to have those thrusters? Ditch them, and you can save 120 kilograms (plus you can save some more mass by emptying the command pod of all its monopropellant before launch).

- What's the purpose of the service bay? It's got a part in there that I don't recognize... just wondering whether that's needed mass or not.

I was kinda leaning towards TAC as from what I read the Kerbals won't die with the USI one, the just stop functioning until re-supplied...seems not so critical that way.

I've used TAC, have been quite happy with it. It's especially nice in conjunction with RemoteTech-- they complement each other well (one makes unmanned harder, the other makes manned harder).

I'm not entirely convinced. some of the other USI mods look awesome though...but I don't feel anywhere near ready for that level stuff yet.

RoverDude does fantastic work. I've played with Karbonite and Karbonite+ and they're both great fun.

If you find yourself tempted to try UKS/MKS: be warned. It's a big undertaking. The mod is jaw-droppingly cool and complex, but it really changes the nature of the game: you'll spend most of your time managing logistics and resources, rather than flying rocketships around. Building a fully self-sustaining base is a large and lengthy challenge. I did a career playthrough with UKS/MKS, and enjoyed it, and I'm glad I did, but once was enough for me and I probably won't be going back. Not because of any complaint about the mod, just that I prefer to spend my time flying rocketships, and UKS/MKS was a bit of a "bridge too far" for me.

[mabarry3]

I realize you've already launched, and I expect that what you showed will do the trick. A few questions, though:

- I see you've got some RCS thrusters on there. Given that your rescue boat doesn't have a docking port, is there a reason to have those thrusters? Ditch them, and you can save 120 kilograms (plus you can save some more mass by emptying the command pod of all its monopropellant before launch).

I don't think those are RCS thrusters (I may be mistaken), I believe those are KIS/KAS pieces which you can use to transfer fuel or other resources between ships or "connect" them in general while on EVA. Also helpful for setting up bases and the like.

What's the purpose of the service bay? It's got a part in there that I don't recognize... just wondering whether that's needed mass or not.

It's a Kerbal Engineering System, which is a requirement for KER to work and give you the information, unless you either have an engineer on board or a level 3 tracking station. I'm pretty sure it's actually a mass-less, physics-less object, but I don't know for sure. The bay isn't necessary though since he could stick it outside since it's no extra drag or uneven mass.

Edited October 29, 2015 by mabarry3

[Snark]

I don't think those are RCS thrusters (I may be mistaken), I believe those are KIS/KAS pieces which you can use to transfer fuel or other resources between ships or "connect" them in general while on EVA. Also helpful for setting up bases and the like.

I use KIS/KAS and am a big fan, precisely because of those connection ports it includes. The ones on his ship look more like linear RCS ports to me, though.

And even if they were the KAS/KIS ports, that would be an even better reason to leave 'em off, if you're sending a ship that's just going to snag someone from orbit and return. Those ports are heavy, 80 kg apiece. A foursome of them is nearly a third of a ton.

[mabarry3]

I use KIS/KAS and am a big fan, precisely because of those connection ports it includes. The ones on his ship look more like linear RCS ports to me, though.

And even if they were the KAS/KIS ports, that would be an even better reason to leave 'em off, if you're sending a ship that's just going to snag someone from orbit and return. Those ports are heavy, 80 kg apiece. A foursome of them is nearly a third of a ton.

Aha, my bad. Yes, you're correct, I was thinking of this:

Had the colors reversed

[MaxwellsDemon]

Just a general observation: I found the rescue contracts were excellent practice for when I needed to do it to retrieve a mission gone bad!

[Fubarbrickdust]

I realize you've already launched, and I expect that what you showed will do the trick. A few questions, though:

- I see you've got some RCS thrusters on there. Given that your rescue boat doesn't have a docking port, is there a reason to have those thrusters? Ditch them, and you can save 120 kilograms (plus you can save some more mass by emptying the command pod of all its monopropellant before launch).

- What's the purpose of the service bay? It's got a part in there that I don't recognize... just wondering whether that's needed mass or not.

I've used TAC, have been quite happy with it. It's especially nice in conjunction with RemoteTech-- they complement each other well (one makes unmanned harder, the other makes manned harder).

RoverDude does fantastic work. I've played with Karbonite and Karbonite+ and they're both great fun.

If you find yourself tempted to try UKS/MKS: be warned. It's a big undertaking. The mod is jaw-droppingly cool and complex, but it really changes the nature of the game: you'll spend most of your time managing logistics and resources, rather than flying rocketships around. Building a fully self-sustaining base is a large and lengthy challenge. I did a career playthrough with UKS/MKS, and enjoyed it, and I'm glad I did, but once was enough for me and I probably won't be going back. Not because of any complaint about the mod, just that I prefer to spend my time flying rocketships, and UKS/MKS was a bit of a "bridge too far" for me.

Heya Snark,

Thanks for the info on the USI (Roverdude) mods, much appreciated. I totally heed and agree with your warning - They do look really cool, but there's no way I'll be breaking my already pressured little cranium by heaping those on top of the game too. I've still got so much to get to grips with in KSP that it'd be madness!

Speaking of madness...there was some (quite likely somewhat naive) method to the linear thrusters (yep, they are) and service bay - I'd toyed around with RCS thrusters already and really liked the way they give a vessel more manoeuvrability while the main engine's not in use, thought it might be helpful if I wanted to fine tweak or tighten up the rendezvous encounter on the fly if needed. And the service bay - well that was just to house the monopropellant tank (I've only unlocked the bulbous looking ones) for the RCS thrusters, and the KER computer...I thought it'd be best for those bit to be neatly squared away in some sort of housing as opposed to blotted on the side of the ship. Looks like I made the 2nd design flaw to cater for the 1st! Ouch!

Those reasons might make you chuckle - I'm quite new to the game and still really finding my feet. I'm guessing my choices there might have been a bit odd to a seasoned player. The great thing about this game is that, for me, in these early stages the whole process is a really fun learning experience. Even this whole 'Bob stranded on The Mun' crisis and the help and feedback I've been getting from the likes of yourself and everyone else who's taken the time to post here has really helped and has been a great leap for me.

I reckon I now know a little more about the correct application and scenario for RCS thrusters too

Right!...I'm home from work. Just gotta make a cup of tea, and then I think it's time to get phase 2 of this rescue op under way!

Fubarbrickdust,

I would go ahead and orbit him now (make sure he's transferred the science to the pod).

When the rescue ship arrives, you will be able to target him and rendezvous in a single orbit.

1) target him

2) set your closest point of approach to match his orbit

3) retroburn to orbit

4) continue to retroburn while watching his predicted position marker (red arrow pointed up) spin around his orbit.

5) the lower your Ap gets, the slower it will spin. Try to get the marker to line up with your closest point of approach while maintaining a reasonable Ap (still higher than his orbit).

6) if you miss the last encounter, just burn prograde to get it back.

7) orbit once and rendezvous on the next encounter.

Do you know how to rendezvous?

Best,

-Slashy

...Advice taken. I'm on it. I'll digest your points and see if i can make it happen. Thanks again Slashy.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Fubarbrickdust

[GoSlash27]

...Advice taken. I'm on it. I'll digest your points and see if i can make it happen. Thanks again Slashy.

Fubarbrickdust,

Not a problem and you're very welcome. People on this forum are nothing if not helpful.

And don't sweat the design of your ship. Efficiency is something that will come with experience. Right now we just want something that we know will do the job and get Bob home safe. If this design is good enough to reach the Munar surface, then it's good enough to use for the rescue in orbit and that's all we really care about.

Feel free to hit me up if you have problems with the rendezvous. You'll have all sorts of DV to play with.

Best,

-Slashy

[Snark]

Speaking of madness...there was some (quite likely somewhat naive) method to the linear thrusters (yep, they are) and service bay - I'd toyed around with RCS thrusters already and really liked the way they give a vessel more manoeuvrability while the main engine's not in use, thought it might be helpful if I wanted to fine tweak or tighten up the rendezvous encounter on the fly if needed.

Fair 'nuff, but the main engine works just fine for fine-tuning orbital encounters-- RCS thrusters are mainly useful for docking, since then you have to have your ship pointed at the docking port and need a way of thrusting sideways.

Here's a docking tutorial I wrote that you may find helpful. It assumes that you can get a reasonably close (within a few kilometers) orbital rendezvous with maneuver nodes. Steps 2 and 3 will take you right up to the point where your rescue boat is parked right next to Bob's ship (and will do so without any use of RCS). You can skip everything after Step 3, since you're not actually docking.

And the service bay - well that was just to house the monopropellant tank (I've only unlocked the bulbous looking ones) for the RCS thrusters, and the KER computer...

Note that the Mk1 command pod you're using already has storage for 10 units of monopropellant, which should be plenty for a tiny craft like that. If you're doing something with monopropellant that requires a lot more than that, you may want to rethink-- it's a pretty big waste of mass, monopropellant's Isp is abysmal and it's best used in tiny dribs and drabs for very minor corrections.

If you need it for the KER computer, fine (can't comment on that, I've never used KER), but you really shouldn't need that much monopropellant for your ship (and I'd contend that you actually don't need any at all, for what you're doing).

Those reasons might make you chuckle - I'm quite new to the game and still really finding my feet.

Oh, believe me, no chuckles there (or perhaps, some rueful ones)-- we've all been there, and even after a year and a half playing this game I'm still discovering little tidbits I never had a clue about. (For example, I didn't find out about RCS thruster magic in fine control mode until I'd been playing over a year.)

The great thing about this game is that, for me, in these early stages the whole process is a really fun learning experience.

Absolutely! That's the magic of KSP... and it stays that way for a good long time, there's always one more challenge.

Even this whole 'Bob stranded on The Mun' crisis and the help and feedback I've been getting from the likes of yourself and everyone else who's taken the time to post here has really helped and has been a great leap for me.

And imagine how much fun you'll have once you're an old hand and it's your turn to help out someone new to the game!

[ECrierie]

Wish i could help you but i am just as new as you at this (well... i am just really rusty honestly i have not play since it when from free beta to paid) but anyway... you should rename bob kerman to Mark Watney LOL :P

[Fubarbrickdust]

Fubarbrickdust,

I would go ahead and orbit him now (make sure he's transferred the science to the pod).

When the rescue ship arrives, you will be able to target him and rendezvous in a single orbit.

1) target him

2) set your closest point of approach to match his orbit

3) retroburn to orbit

4) continue to retroburn while watching his predicted position marker (red arrow pointed up) spin around his orbit.

5) the lower your Ap gets, the slower it will spin. Try to get the marker to line up with your closest point of approach while maintaining a reasonable Ap (still higher than his orbit).

6) if you miss the last encounter, just burn prograde to get it back.

7) orbit once and rendezvous on the next encounter.

Do you know how to rendezvous?

Best,

-Slashy

UPDATE: So it's looking good! It took me a little while to get my head round it but I think I'm beginning to understand the 'rendezvous withing the space of an orbit' concept...we've got our encounter down to 1.1km and the 'target m/s' keeps dropping so I guess that's good (?)

This little exercise has pulled up one question which I've been wondering about for a while, and if you don't mind me asking - What's the difference in meaning between the different colored 'intersection nodes'? The red ones are pretty self explanatory, but I'm missing the mark with the pink ones...

EG with pics:

So I'm pretty sure what this represents...It means we're in luck

But what do they mean in pink?...it has eluded me thus far...

[Vegvisir]

Pink is the "other" intersection occurrence - as far as I know. There's just two intersection nodes, because math and science and orbits or something.... In this case (often with mine, too) this other period of intersection has a larger distance than the one you're making use of - which happens to be the orange one.

1.1km is definitely close enough. I don't know what the max comfortable distance is, but EVA Kerbals can jump a long way Looking good for Bob!

My first attempts at rendezvous were terrible. Last time I did it I used a guide on the KSP wiki, but there's others around (such as Snark's - which I'll look over later I think ! )

[Snark]

When you see two intersection nodes, they're just that: the two places where your orbit intersects the target's. The orange one is the soonest, and the purple is the next one that comes after that.

[Fubarbrickdust]

Pink is the "other" intersection occurrence - as far as I know. There's just two intersection nodes, because math and science and orbits or something.... In this case (often with mine, too) this other period of intersection has a larger distance than the one you're making use of - which happens to be the orange one.

1.1km is definitely close enough. I don't know what the max comfortable distance is, but EVA Kerbals can jump a long way Looking good for Bob!

My first attempts at rendezvous were terrible. Last time I did it I used a guide on the KSP wiki, but there's others around (such as Snark's - which I'll look over later I think ! )

-SNIP- The orange one is the soonest, the purple is the next one that comes after that.

Thanks fellas. And I think that ^ was the little nugget of info that I was missing...

In other news, I'm happy to report that Bob is safely aboard the rescue ship and on his way back to Kerbin! Nice!

[Fubarbrickdust]

Okey dokey so here it is!

I'm dead chuffed to report that Bob has made it safely back home to the KSC!

I just wanted to say a massive thank you to everyone who gave they're input on the thread and helped to get Bob home...much appreciated. It was fun for me and I've learned a lot in the process from the bits of info and and advice provided by Slashy, Snark and Doslidynk to name but a few. To all - I salute you

As for Bob? - Well he's gonna take some well earned R&R along with some mandatory psychological counselling sessions - I don't know how long it'll be before hes happy to go back into space, however, he has informed me that he'd like to spend some of the science he's earned on researching aviation...He'd very much like to spend some time to see if he can design an aircraft that's capable of breaking the sound barrier here on Kerbin - I'm sure we can spare him the points, there's enough going round after his valient efforts on The Mun.

He says thank you too btw...

Edited October 30, 2015 by Fubarbrickdust

[mabarry3]

Congrats on the recovery!

[GoSlash27]

Fubarbrickdust,

Congratulations! This just made my morning

Best,

-Slashy

[Warzouz]

If you can get him into a stable orbit, you're halfway to rescuing him. Manned or Unmanned is not all that important, what matters is that you've got space for your Kerbal on the rescue end and that the vehicle can survive Kerbin reentry.

True, this is the easiest. If you can achieve low mun orbit, the rescue vehicle don't have to land, don't need a docking ring. Just close on the Bob lander so he he can EVA to the recue ship with the precious science experiments.

[Snark]

Excellent news, fubar! Congratulations and welcome home.

[The Optimist]

It could be worse. Trust me.