What happened to the SPACE in KSP?

[A35K]

The water changes are really a space tool in disguise. While all the fishies are playing around on kerbin, lets look skyward.

What planet has water and is one of the more popular destinations for colonization? Laythe. Notice its lack of landmass. Flat land there is a valuable commodity and needing it for a runway is wasteful. Now, all we need is flat land with coast access and we have a runway that covers the planet! Being able to touch down at speed also means we dont need giant wingspans and VTOL engines like this old monstrosity. We can now bring much smaller planes that land much faster and are a lot easier to stick onto rockets. It means we can build SSTOs capable of water landing and takeoff.

It also means landing on Eve's oceans is not guaranteed death. Don't let the current submarine craze fool you. This opens a lot of doors beyond Kerbin. Most people though are too busy sinking things to realize this though. Give them some time, they'll come around.

I had actually managed to build a functioning seaplane back in 0.23, I sent it to Laythe. It used the radial intakes which for some reason acted as floats back then. No VTOL was required, and landing was at ordinary speeds (around 90m/s if I remember correctly), all you had to do was make sure you touched down with around 1 m/s vertical speed. Here is a picture of it:

[Red Dwarf]

Aye. Sorry - that wasn't intended to be a snark at you but just a way of pointing out that I'd be happy with relatively modest updates to the space program part of KSP.

I'm sure they're planning on it. I think the reason we've seen so many new plane parts recently is because that part of the game needed a significant amount of polish. Sometimes it's easy to forget that this is Squad's first game. They didn't have a lot of experience going in, so their first pass was kind of slap-dash. They put a lot of effort into the rockets, and then turned to the spaceplane parts to bring them up to that same level of quality. Thing is, they had gained some experience at that point, and were actually able to make the plane parts better than the rockets. Now that all the plane parts are looking good and shiny, I feel quite sure they'll turn back to the rockets again.

Don't worry guys, your time will come

[Kevin Kyle]

Im pretty sure that 1.1 will open doors to things that wouldnt have been practical before. I can live with what I have just fine right now and I pretty much only do rockets so far. Im impressed with whats happened so far from such a small team. Im looking forward to whats coming. That doesnt mean I wouldnt like new parts and a more robust campaign. Not sure what the future is going to bring but I bet we wont be disappointed.

[fanelli]

Because when you go to space, you will sometimes go to another planet, and those planets might have atmospheres.  Everything in the patch will be used for my own space ships that are going to other atmospheres. <br><br>The plane parts are also just so happen to be what kind of Dev's are available.  Whoever specializes in spacecraft parts should go apply to SQUAD.

[Majorjim!]

Completely agree with Foxter. For me, KSP is currently sadly lacking in the actual space exploration department. Or rather, space exploration has been allowed to fall behind fripperies like planes and boats. No - I don't really care about either. My choice - I understand it's not everyone's choice.

Forget about icing - I'd like some cake please. I don't need c-beams glittering in the dark (in fact I actively dislike going military in KSP), I don't even need much to look at once I get to another world (although that would be nice). But I would really, really like to have some new stock parts for space stations. Some stock options for building things in orbit. Some stock options for building bases that aren't a motley collection of Hitchhiker modules and landing rockets.

Heck lets push the boat out (har) and go for some actual moving parts, so that I can build a nice little rover, launch it in halfway sensible payload fairing and then unfold and deploy it after landing. If we can build Space Shuttle replicas in KSP, then I want to build decent Apollo 15-17 replicas too!

I could make you a folding rover. In fact, I am working on one as we speak. As well as something cool for shuttles. Many, many things are possible with stock parts. The only issue is it takes 30 parts rather than 1...

[Wjolcz]

I think people are overreacting. Fixed water bouyancy doesn't mean the devs will delete all the rocket parts and start adding U-Boats.

[Greenfire32]

erm...just what the hell are we supposed to do on other planets, if we don't have the mechanics for land/air/sea in place?

Space travel is great and all, but we need to be able to EXPLORE the planet once we get to it...otherwise...what's the point...of going there...

[ZooNamedGames]

Admittedly the surface activities are extremely limited, even on career mode. In sandbox all you can do is land a base, expand on it, land a rover, land a refinery, (depending on the planet), land a SSTO, and land a boat. Then you can drive around but after seeing the sights there's NOTHING to do. It is one thing I dislike about KSP vs reality. A lack of things to do aside from the personal achievement aspect. I'd like to see surface activities beyond "soil samples" and such. Even in career mode all you do is land a base to X spects, maybe expand and also use it launch various side activities such as go to X location and do X experiment. Its lacking. In reality, the Apollo astronauts had hours worth of things to do, heck, I could try to do EVERYTHING POSSIBLE to REPLICATE an Apollo mission and yet ONE of they're EVAs are longer than my entire mission. It's sad!

My immediate fix would be to add KIS/KAS or some system alike it. Since instead of launching everything, I can assemble it in space or orbit. Moreover, it would be far more useful for using the cargo bays. Since I can launch a module base for a station, then send kerbals over to the cargo vehicle, collect the parts, install them and such. That would take a while, and be closer to a real life EVA. Ofc, I would also suggest adding failure mechanics. So carrying spare parts would also be desirable and it would again expand on the KIS/KAS mechanic. I can directly reference the Skylab solar panel deployment failure which required an EVA to help fix it. Then on the same mission they had to deploy a blanket to absorb heat due to a radiator failure. Both of which required EVAs, and required taking a part from one place to another. All within the range of KIS/KAS.

I'd also like to mention the Apollo 12 EVA to collect parts from the surveyor space probe. Granted, this can already be practiced by landing a probe, collecting science then awaiting a crew. Then I'd like to ALSO mention how other Apollo missions deployed various probes and devices on the lunar surface for research, but they weren't in a cargo bay, some of them were carried within the LM itself. So being able to carry and deploy satellites held within parts would be nice. On the same missions, the astronauts would be seen tossing hand held satellites into lunar orbit AGAIN expanding on this mechanic!!

This is all realistic, and has basis within space and it also adds to the game mechanics. Just my thoughts.

[More Boosters]

I think people are overreacting. Fixed water bouyancy doesn't mean the devs will delete all the rocket parts and start adding U-Boats.

They need to add giant squid parts now.

[Hotaru]

What I find a little worrying is not that plane parts are getting added instead of rocket parts, so much as that the parts getting added are often not much use for space planes. I've wanted a stock 2.5-meter jet for a long time but (as I understand it, haven't actually tried it yet) the new one is only good for subsonic speeds. Sure, it's nice, but what exactly am I supposed to do with it--especially in career mode--if I can't use it to get to space? (Until we get something like FMRS stock, which would allow an X-15 style TSTO spaceplane, that is.)

I'd love to see a wider variety of plane parts, but only if they are useful for building spacecraft--2.5 or 3.75-meter jets, Rapiers, and intakes, for instance--but my enthusiasm is limited for subsonic aircraft parts, especially with the current memory issues.

That said, I wouldn't say no to some electric props or atomic jets, as those would at least be useful for places other than Kerbin.

[juanml82]

Squad received data that indicated that most of players time is spent on Kerbin. So they've decided to make a plane and water simulator.

Personally, I think they should have taken that data as a hint that they needed to enable easier spaceflight options (such as Manuever and DV planning) and provide more gameplay on other planets.

Probably this. Honestly, I don't think I could land in anywhere but Minmus without KER, Precise Node and something to calculate transfer windows.

So, you get people who download the game, they don't care about going into wikis, reddit or this forum, they don't mod it, and they simply lack the tools to perform interplanetary missions.

[EladDv]

Squad received data that indicated that most of players time is spent on Kerbin. So they've decided to make a plane and water simulator.

Personally, I think they should have taken that data as a hint that they needed to enable easier spaceflight options (such as Manuever and DV planning) and provide more gameplay on other planets.

no i dont think so. if it was so they would have just make a full on water physics system and get some more rover and sea parts. that update to the water was purely nathankell's idea and the devs rolled with him- he found it fun working on the water after he tried a minor bug fixing pass so he kept on with it (paraphrasing NKs words on KSPTV with kophy). They are surely planning on overhauling space and do all kinds of stuff with space stations and new parts and textures and all heck- they added core heat for much more interesting stuff in the future to be possible like nuclear reactors and central heating and all kinds of stuff i can think about. let me assure you they are not abandoning space they are overhauling it drastically it's just that they are so taken up with the U5 update and all the new physics that broke

[Franklin]

Every planet in KSP is barren and dull. We spend most of our time on/around Kerbin because we've seen the empty expanses of the other planets and realized it's easier if we just stay put now.

Like, where're the clouds? Where's the acidic atmospheres? Where's the incredible heat? Dust storms? Volcanoes? Where's something other than another dead ball to land your junk on. Space is a snore right now.

- - - Updated - - -

Like, give us birds and fish and stuff on Kerbin. We're exploring because we want to find things, not because we like the headache of getting there.

[A35K]

Every planet in KSP is barren and dull. We spend most of our time on/around Kerbin because we've seen the empty expanses of the other planets and realized it's easier if we just stay put now.

Like, where're the clouds? Where's the acidic atmospheres? Where's the incredible heat? Dust storms? Volcanoes? Where's something other than another dead ball to land your junk on. Space is a snore right now.

- - - Updated - - -

Like, give us birds and fish and stuff on Kerbin. We're exploring because we want to find things, not because we like the headache of getting there.

Well, there's mods that add clouds and dust storms, but as far as I know they are quite cpu intensive, which is probably why they are not stock. And with acid atmospheres what would be the point? Wouldn't that mean you can't even go to that planet? Even though I agree that Volcanoes on Eve and Laythe, and a superheated atmosphere on Moho would be pretty cool.

[Fisk02]

Kerbal aqua program, yeah sounds really bad...

But ksp is not only about space exploration you know.

And this update was on of very few that was about mostly kerbin exploration.

[KerikBalm]

Getting to and from space doesn't seem to even have been tested much going by the heat bugs that have appeared for Kerbin and Eve.

Well, I tested getting to and from space with small craft, I tested that my massive cargo SSTO could still get to space... today I tried bringing it down....

So far I'm not having any luck, and the game is running so slow that I haven't had time to try many things.

I'm thinking I'm going to need to do a significant retroburn before reentry... and then after that, I'm going to have to retire the FAT-455 wings and replace them with the Big-S delta wings.

No more parts with only 1200 C heat tolerance for me.

The Big-S delta wings should be just barely big enough to replace the FAT-455 wings and not have my engine exhaust hit another engine pod

[WinkAllKerb'']

We're exploring because we want to find things, not because we like the headache of getting there.

just poking around that point, but do you mean KSP is the only game where you can reproduce that like very very close to how space agencies did/do it ; ) ok i want more too whenever i reach a destination, but being able to reach a destination like that in a game is already so much on the other hand ; ) oki we want more we want more, i think all squad member want more too ; ) no doubt ; ) just a matter of implementing, testing stuff, and time ; )

Edited November 12, 2015 by WinkAllKerb''

[juanml82]

Every planet in KSP is barren and dull. We spend most of our time on/around Kerbin because we've seen the empty expanses of the other planets and realized it's easier if we just stay put now.

Like, where're the clouds? Where's the acidic atmospheres? Where's the incredible heat? Dust storms? Volcanoes? Where's something other than another dead ball to land your junk on. Space is a snore right now.

- - - Updated - - -

Like, give us birds and fish and stuff on Kerbin. We're exploring because we want to find things, not because we like the headache of getting there.

I kind of love the headache. I agree clouds and geological events would be great to have, with some sort of alarm/warning system. For instance, players should be able to see which volcanoes are active in the map view and, within a stockified KAC, an alarm triggers if one of them is about to erupt. You can ignore, evacuate the surrounding area if you have a base, or send a rover or lander to investigate

[Franklin]

I should correct myself: getting there the first time or two is fun. It's a new challenge. Can I get to it? Can I land on it? Can I get back? But once you've done initial meet & greet, you know there's nothing to come back to, really. It's a big, dead ball, just like all the rest. So we just sit on Kerbin and fart around with new ship designs.

- - - Updated - - -

We haven't found any life on other planets, so I don't expect KSP to start filling planets with birds and stuff, but we've found a hell of a lot of meteorological and geological diversity among what we've observed, and that just isn't present in KSP.

[DrMarlboro]

I'm really happy about all the atmospheric stuff we've got. I've been trying to do a realistic playthrough where (in addition to all the other realistic stuff like remote tech) I don't recover anything that isn't directly on a pad/runway. The problem has always been that if it's in water, I'm sol. But now (especially with the new cargo ramp) I can land in the water and transfer crew, then scoop up the left over parts. It's also made me actually accept contracts that are on kerbin.

[Waxing_Kibbous]

I too love the more rocket-orientated aspects of the game, and will agree that when I get to another body, do a few science things, say, OK, time to back already? The question is, what can one do? The contract system could be more adaptable so that you can get some contract choices while on the surface, I think that could be a fun aspect, even if they are more on the simple side. I'm optimistic about the 1.1+ releases however because it will allow Squad more access to making a bigger game thanks to the Unity upgrade. The development of KSP is constant so one has to think in terms of a rolling release as opposed to versions, I have faith that the game will keep moving forward on an interesting path.

[Overland]

I think a better approach and ideal is to simply see kerbin as a showcase. its our homeworld.. starting point for all..

some like myself choose to stay on it yes.. but kerbin is far from barren (with scatter enabled)

its a beautiful place.. full of amazing terrain.. deadly as it is beautiful.. the things ive seen as a train driver.. KSP might have simple graphics but its the scale that impresses me.. yet. theres times everything adds up to give me a sense of awe that no other game has..

its also the game to be able to eventually fully simulate land trains such as the forgotten LLC1 sno train and snofreighter..a long term dream of mine

none of this though I had in mind when I purchased KSP.. I came for the space... stayed for everything else

Having all these extra parts is a good thing.. squad know what their doing.. it'll all even out.. everythings all connected.. in the end im sure we'll have planets as detailed as kerbin being the normal thing.. for now its best to focus on kerbin to develop those things before wider deployment

I dont think space plane and rover parts detract from space.. but rather build a foundation for a better experience in the long term

[Franklin]

but kerbin is far from barren (with scatter enabled)

its a beautiful place.. full of amazing terrain.. deadly as it is beautiful.. the things ive seen as a train driver.. KSP might have simple graphics but its the scale that impresses me.. yet. theres times everything adds up to give me a sense of awe that no other game has..

I think your idea of barren (not beautiful) and my idea of barren (nothing exists beyond the terrain map) may be different. Some of the planets are really striking, I like Minmus a lot, and it fits the barrenness of the game because it's an arctic tundra, but there's just nothing to explore or research.

Every single science experiment in the game is the same experiment, just in a different zone, and all the zones are more or less the same, hills and cliffs and texture aside.

[tranenturm]

I think part of the problem is one of expectations and scope. KSP is a journey game and not a destination game. Once you've gotten everywhere, you've done the journey. Pack it in. KSP focuses on the journey probably because that's what most people do. If you visit everything, that's a crazy amount of game time. I've gone to Duna once and have @150 hours in. I'm probably moe typical than those who have 1000s of hours.

[Tourist]

I disagree in part that space exploration has been ignored. I don't see any deficiency in parts for rockets, or interplanetary vessels. As is already noted aeroplane parts and water changes have uses... great uses elsewhere in the system.

I see this patch, in many respects, as merely re balancing the part list so that planes have at least as many options as spacefaring craft. Also, space travel historically has a intrinsic connection with aviation. Just ask yourself what all the Mercury and Gemini astronauts have in common... All (or at least most) were test pilots. Most of the Apollo astronauts to too, come to think of it (although a number of scientists who were not pilots before joining the program begun to enter the program)

But, where I do think the game needs to expand is in base parts. While the game gives you planetary base contracts, there are no parts dedicated to this activity (the hitchhiker module is incorrectly oriented for use in gravity, the beds are on the walls, and the node is in the wrong place.)

So Squad, for Christmas I would like some habitation modules oriented for gravity, please as I have been very good this year (please note, I am not under oath).