(FIX THIS) 1.0.5 Rentry Heating is Too powerful and should be scaled back to 1.0.4 heating

[josea74]

In real life the x15 went around 5000 mph. If you made an x15 in ksp it would probably be fine in 1.0.4 however in 1.0.5 any fast and high alt plane you make will most likely explode due to the way too powerful heating :( . I dislike how they upgraded heating and it is now OP. I was trying to fly my plane at around 1500 m/s and it just overheats which is stupid. I even put layers upon layers of heating protection which only came to the same result as update 1.0.5 the heat is so powerful it destroys airstream protective shells. I think this should be scaled back to 1.0.4 heating as that was not only more fun but it didn't blow up my fast aircraft at speeds that a fast aircraft and high altitude should not blow up at.
(Any testing of this is welcome please show pictures and proof because this is true) (ksp player since 0.17 btw)

[Sanic]

The X-15 had abalative coating. And the stock fairings are only meant to reduce drag, not protect from heat. Heating has not been buffed, rather fixed.

Let's say you have 100 abalator, and it will abalate at 1 unit per second. In KSP 1.0.4, the abalation rate decreased as you ababator decreased. For example, your fictional abalator goes down to 80, so your abalation rate goes down to 0.8 units per second. Not a perfect example, but I'm sure you'll get the point. KSP 1.0.5 changes that, so if your fictional abalator is 80 your abalation rate is still 1 per second. Edited November 17, 2015 by Sanic

[mythbusters844]

You know there's a difficulty setting for heating right?

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/8SXIQWG.png[/IMG]

[josea74]

The 1500 m/s is around 3000 mph that is 1000 mph more than the sr71 and 2000 less than the x15. The heat blows up my aircraft at that speed :/ I think the heating should be reduced to allow for the fast high altitude aircraft. I initially thought the protection would help but it still blows up with the tremendous heat.

[COLOR="silver"][SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE][/COLOR]

Ya but I'm asking for a change in the 100% code value so that it doesn't blow up aircraft that shouldn't blow up and these aircraft also have necessary heating protection.

[Sanic]

We need abalative coating, but the devs don't think we do. I suggested this a while back, but was dismissed by NathanKell. He said spaceplane parts lready had a high heat tolerance, so there wasn't a need for abalative paint.

[mythbusters844]

[quote name='josea74']Ya but I'm asking for a change in the 100% code value so that it doesn't blow up aircraft that shouldn't blow up and these aircraft also have necessary heating protection.[/QUOTE]

But literally why? The heating is [I]perfectly fine[/I] for me and countless others. You're the [I][U][B]only[/B][/U][/I] one asking for this, so just do it on your end.

[Guest]

I might need to start another thread but I'll ask here first. It took me a while to figure out how to reenter with my spaceplane on Kerbin. It's a simple plane with an mk1 cockpit and a rapier engine. Well, I didn't figure it out, someone else helped me figure it out. I had to reenter with a much higher AoA than what I was used to. Ok, all is good. I took the plane to Duna. Aerocapture was fairly easy. Now I'm trying to get back to Kerbin with no luck. I am blowing up every single time. I have tried several setups, including changing the PE from 40km up to 55km. I can survive the reentry down to about 52 km if I come in retrograde, or an AoA of 180 degrees, but not even getting close to staying in Kerbin SOI. It looks like according to mechjeb that I'm going to have to have a PE of around 42km to get an aerocapture, but, anything below 52 km and kablooey, no matter what the AoA is. Anyone figured out how to aerocapture at Kerbin when returning from Duna or anywhere else interplanetary for that matter?

[josea74]

[quote name='mythbusters844']But literally why? The heating is [I]perfectly fine[/I] for me and countless others. You're the [I][U][B]only[/B][/U][/I] one asking for this, so just do it on your end.[/QUOTE]
Well there are most likely people just like me who don't ask and just continue playing upset about this issue but unwilling to take action. The re entry value for 100% should be decreased to allow for fast aircraft like mine which go around 1500 m/s - 1600 m/s

[MaxL_1023]

Remember that all the velocity values in KSP are scaled down by roughly a factor of 3 (the square root of 10 to be more precise - 3.162). Kerbin is 1/10th actual size with normal gravity, so orbital velocity is only about 30% as high. Your 1500 m/s in KSP is the equivalent of ~5000 m/s, or about 2/3rds of orbital velocity. This is ICBM range speed, and they DO need heatshields to survive a ballistic re-entry.

Normal planes would fail at around 1000 m/s and burn up by 1500 m/s - the SR-71 needed high heat alloys to survive the 1000 m/s range so at 1500 you would need some ablator.

Also, what altitude are you flying at? That SR-71 example is at 25000m - are you trying this at 10000m where the air is over 10x denser?

[Pthigrivi]

Guys I know there has been a lot of consternation about this, but the heat is completely manageable. SSTO's are fine, and now you actually have to think about re-entry. The main thing is radiators and heat shields actually have a real function now, which is a huge thing for gameplay. Just adapt, its really not even that different.

[Starwaster]

[quote name='josea74']Well there are most likely people just like me who don't ask and just continue playing upset about this issue but unwilling to take action. The re entry value for 100% should be decreased to allow for fast aircraft like mine which go around 1500 m/s - 1600 m/s[/QUOTE]


Just use the difficulty slider already.

That's what it's there for. That's why games that HAVE difficulty settings have always had them. Find it too difficult? [I]Change the difficulty setting.[/I]

As Shia Labeouf says... [COLOR=#ffffff]JUST DO IT.[/COLOR]

[TheCanadianVendingMachine]

You know what I find OP and what Squad should change? They should change the planets being round, and there being multiple bodies. Just like 0.8.4! It was perfect back then! Didn't have to worry about orbiting, and it was way easier back then. (FIX THIS)

[Wanderfound]

[quote name='Otis']Anyone figured out how to aerocapture at Kerbin when returning from Duna or anywhere else interplanetary for that matter?[/QUOTE]

Just coming in from minimal LEO, the Shuttle stressed its heat tolerance to the limit (and, tragically, beyond). Even that required extreme AoA, S-turns and airbrakes. I don't know that an interplanetary aerocapture in a spaceplane is realistically possible at all; it's a job for an ablative heatshield, not a fragile winged thing.

That said, I'd be very surprised if it wasn't still possible in KSP. But the same tricks will be required as in reality: crank your AoA as high as possible as early as possible (the Shuttle used its OMS to hold a nose-up posture while the air was still too thin to do it aerodynamically), use airbrakes, use S-turns, aim for just a minimal capture on the first pass.

Wash off as much speed as possible in the upper atmosphere before very carefully dipping lower. Control your altitude, don't just drop.

[Guest]

[quote name='Wanderfound']Just coming in from minimal LEO, the Shuttle stressed its heat tolerance to the limit (and, tragically, beyond). Even that required extreme AoA, S-turns and airbrakes. I don't know that an interplanetary aerocapture in a spaceplane is realistically possible at all; it's a job for an ablative heatshield, not a fragile winged thing.

That said, I'd be very surprised if it wasn't still possible in KSP. But the same tricks will be required as in reality: crank your AoA as high as possible as early as possible (the Shuttle used its OMS to hold a nose-up posture while the air was still too thin to do it aerodynamically), use airbrakes, use S-turns, aim for just a minimal capture on the first pass.

Wash off as much speed as possible in the upper atmosphere before very carefully dipping lower. Control your altitude, don't just drop.[/QUOTE]

I think I get it. KSP is trying to become a more realistic simulator. If I want to play on normal difficulty and travel to other places outside of Kerbin soi and expect to return Kerbals alive, I have to change the way I play. I have to increase part counts to include heat shields, radiators etc, which requires more computing power. I have to be more precise with flight plans, which by the way, I don't have the required tools to easily do without mods. Well, I feel like the game is leaving me behind and I'm probably just going to put it to the side and do some other things for a while. Frankly, I'm getting tired of all the updates breaking mods, forcing me to spend time figuring out what's up to date, what works, and what doesn't. I'm a little frustrated right now, as if you can't tell. Maybe I'll change my mind tomorrow, maybe I won't. But, thanks anyway.

[Joonatan1998]

Normal difficulty requiring either careful flying or heat shields should be expected.
Yes, heatshields add to part count, so do engines.

[fisfis]

[quote name='Otis']I think I get it. KSP is trying to become a more realistic simulator. If I want to play on normal difficulty and travel to other places outside of Kerbin soi and expect to return Kerbals alive, I have to change the way I play. I have to increase part counts to include heat shields, radiators etc, which requires more computing power. I have to be more precise with flight plans, which by the way, I don't have the required tools to easily do without mods. Well, I feel like the game is leaving me behind and I'm probably just going to put it to the side and do some other things for a while. Frankly, I'm getting tired of all the updates breaking mods, forcing me to spend time figuring out what's up to date, what works, and what doesn't. I'm a little frustrated right now, as if you can't tell. Maybe I'll change my mind tomorrow, maybe I won't. But, thanks anyway.[/QUOTE]

Totally agree with you.

Just a qq, how do you guys add ablator to rcs ports? They always blows up.

[fireblade274]

At the very least we should get the AeroBrake part's heat tolerance upped. Its only at 1.2k and now that 1.05 has made heat much more involved, upping it to 2.4k or at least 2k would be nice. They are necessary for space planes, expecially if you dont want to add a heavy heat shield up front (that only protects the center of the plane anyway)

Ablators added on Aerobrakes would be nice?

[jwbrase]

[quote name='fireblade274']They are necessary for space planes[/QUOTE]

Not if you use an appropriately high AOA during reentry. None of my spaceplanes, ranging from 30 to 120 tons full-load, use airbrakes at all, and 1.0.5 didn't break them, though I think heating margins have gotten thinner in places during reentry (and very definitely have during launch).

[Frozen_Heart]

[QUOTE]Well there are most likely people just like me who don't ask and just continue playing upset about this issue but unwilling to take action. The re entry value for 100% should be decreased to allow for fast aircraft like mine which go around 1500 m/s - 1600 m/[/QUOTE]

The SR-71 needed special materials to survive speed much lower than that. At 1500m/s you would need ablative coating in real life, let alone in KSPs scaled down system where that is almost orbital velocity.

[QUOTE]~If I want to play on normal difficulty and travel to other places outside of Kerbin soi and expect to return Kerbals alive, I have to change the way I play. I have to increase part counts to include heat shields, radiators etc, which requires more computing power. I have to be more precise with flight plans, which by the way, I don't have the required tools to easily do without mods. Well, I feel like the game is leaving me behind and I'm probably just going to put it to the side and do some other things for a while[/QUOTE]

KSP from the start was meant to have a basis in realism. Re-entry is meant to be one of the most difficult to survive aspects in spaceflight, and you want to be able to survive coming in from another planet without having to use a heat shield at all?

[QUOTE]Frankly, I'm getting tired of all the updates breaking mods, forcing me to spend time figuring out what's up to date, what works, and what doesn't. I'm a little frustrated right now, as if you can't tell. Maybe I'll change my mind tomorrow, maybe I won't. But, thanks anyway.[/QUOTE]

The KSP devs have no obligation to not update their game to allow the mods to keep working.

[Pthigrivi]

[quote name='Otis']I think I get it. KSP is trying to become a more realistic simulator. If I want to play on normal difficulty and travel to other places outside of Kerbin soi and expect to return Kerbals alive, I have to change the way I play. I have to increase part counts to include heat shields, radiators etc, which requires more computing power. I have to be more precise with flight plans, which by the way, I don't have the required tools to easily do without mods. Well, I feel like the game is leaving me behind and I'm probably just going to put it to the side and do some other things for a while. Frankly, I'm getting tired of all the updates breaking mods, forcing me to spend time figuring out what's up to date, what works, and what doesn't. I'm a little frustrated right now, as if you can't tell. Maybe I'll change my mind tomorrow, maybe I won't. But, thanks anyway.[/QUOTE]

I hear you man. I've been playing a long time too and had to change a great deal about how I played. I actually agree that the the current maneuver nodes could use an update, they're pretty finicky at the moment. One thing I often do especially for aerocapture is to get close, wait till I've entered SOI, then do some small correction burns to tease out inclination problems and get the periapsis just where I want it. I've also definitely had to resort to quicksaving while I get used to the changes. I think you probably could get a space-plane back from interplanetary with a couple of high altitude passes with the nose near normal. Rocket engines too seem to overheat and sometimes I've found it advantageous to come in nose in, leave airbrakes open as long as I dare, close them as they approach red, and then re-open them around 50k. Even this though takes multiple passes and some clever design so you can stay precisely on prograde without flipping.

Which is kind of the thing. Now that we actually have to think about these things I've been having more fun with this game in the last week than I have since I first got it.

That said, I rarely use mods, so missing that hasn't been a factor. Edited November 17, 2015 by Pthigrivi

[MaxL_1023]

Aerocapture is one of the hardest maneuvers to accomplish, especially when you are often on a highly sub-optimal trajectory. It would probably be easier to try and pass by the Mun to lose some energy - a 50km flyby should be doable using just 5-10 m/s of delta-V if you apply it early enough and you could lose easily a couple hundred m/s of delta-V doing it.

Most probes to Jupiter or Saturn would fly by a large moon to help with orbital insertion, and use flybys to slowly change their orbits using minimal propellant.

[WolfMP]

SSTO's are just fine on reentry with a couple tweaks. My new procedure starting with a circular 100km orbit is to burn to a Pe anywhere between 20 and 45 km. Set the SAS to Radial and rotate to make sure you're belly is facing prograde. The magic AoA seems to be 45 degrees. As long as I'm above that, I can reenter without any part breaking 400 degrees. Its fun, you can bounce the AoA down to 40 degrees and watch the nose and wings shoot up over 1000 degrees instantly. My planes go subsonic at 25km altitude and its a nice relaxing dive and flair down to the KSC. If you add a fair amount of wing surface and some RCS in the nose and tail to hold the AoA, you're golden.

As far as going super fast down low, the SR-71 had a top speed a little under 1000m/s at 24km altitude. Even the X-15 was 2000 m/s at 30km altitude. You have a point that you can't really do that anymore at that altitude, but in exchange, Squad has given us a wonderful airbrake zone between 30km and 45km that can decelerate anything as long as you keep the AoA up.

[Sanic]

*facepalm*

I don't think the guy who started this thread wanted answers or thoughts, just attention. There shouldn't be 3 pages of 'yes it's broken, no it's not, adjust the re-entry heat, I will not'. Edited November 18, 2015 by Sanic